For Students of the Game! | Page 2 | FinHeaven - Miami Dolphins Forums

For Students of the Game!

The scope of this discussion -- everything you guys are getting at -- speaks directly to a frustration I feel about not having the resources available to get to the next level of understanding what's REALLY going on within a great game played by a team I've loved cheering for since 1970.
Folks in here know better than most what a nation of football nuts this is, and yet the analysis, explanation and media imagery necessary to get highly-interested, highly-motivated fans to that next level is virtually non-existent.
Expert analysis/explanation SIMOULTANEOUS WITH slo mo/stop action/chalk/isolation/wide angle, etc makes it understandable and lends insight like an epiphany when done well. But, so very little of this is available.
With all the cable channels and all the football interest out there I'm hoping that more is offered in the future. But till then, I just gotta say THANKS!!!! to the finheaven posters who know alot of inside stuff and are willing to type it in on these boards. We love ya!
I hope the ESPN types see threads like this and realize that the interest is there for more inside spec.
Thanks, surfer, for a great thread. :)
 
there are too many variables, in my opinion, to correctly judge an individual o- or d-lineman...as fans, we dont know their assignments on particular plays. the d-lineman can be running straight dogs or stunts. a particular o-lineman's assignment may be to cover the outside rush or keep an eye on the interior push(i.e. warren sapp or john randle). you are correct, singling out a particular lineman takes a trained eye...that said, i can sure as hell tell you if an ENTIRE o-line isnt able to keep the QB upright or if a d-line cant get to the QB(or stop the run)!!!
 
I agree with Fin-atic that playing football is the best way to learn the game (especially at the collegiate level). I wish I had the opportunity.

I would think another way to learn the subtleties of the game is to view the game live at the stadium. I’ve only been a few times, but it was amazing to see an entire play manifest in front of your eyes, rather than only seeing the “window†of the TV screen focusing on the QB. When you’re at the game, you have the opportunity to focus on the individual matchups that the TV screen cant capture. If you pay attention you can see how often a DB is beaten by a WR (Jamar Fletcher thread, anyone?). You can watch the LB’s and Safeties and how they cover different parts of the field. Of course you would miss bits and pieces of the game itself by taking your eye off the ball, but that’s part of the football experience.

Watching at home is like viewing a movie and covering the left side of the screen. Damn I wish I could go

:mad:
 
Yes going to the game could help, but it isn't much different then on TV. You watch the ball just like the cameras do.

I played high school ball so i had a limited knowledge of the game, but then I got in to coaching. It was at the pop werner level for 2 years, but in that time I read every coaching book I could get my hands on. Right now I am trying to start my life while my girlfreind finishes with college, so I don't have the time, but will get back in to it. If you really want to understand the game, and all the ins and outs that is the way to go. You will never get on the same page with Norv, but you will notice subtletys, and have a better understanding of everyones role on any given play. I think the hardest thing to understand is what a WR is supposed to do. On every pass play each WR has about 4 options of where to take his route. It is all about reading the coverage, and what the guy in front of you is going to do. Then the tricky part comes in, you have to read the exact same thing as the QB. That is why I am amazed that you only here "he wasn't on the same page as the Wr on that one" more often. On a bad day in the NFL you only hear it 2-3 times it really boggles my mind. My second year as a coach first as an OC i gave my 12 year old wrs that option on some plays. 90% of them ended in disater. I took them out after the first game, and things started to click.
 
Dajesus, your exactly dead on about the WR's... I played (fullback) in HS, College, and on a millitary team, and then coached that team for 2 years. (I would love to coach Pop Warner though) and saw a major difference between sophisticated passing offenses that allow WR's and QB's to make those reads allmost allways seem to make more plays. It's amazing how seeing a DB plaing one step to the outside or inside (they rarely play head-up unless it's bump coverage) and watching the positioning of teh Safeties tells the WR where to make his cut and in some cases what route to run.

Another thing I have noticed this year... is it just me or are D-Lines stunting a lot less this year than they have in the past? I have watched and noticed a drastic decline in stunts... anybody know anything that I missed? Why have they stopped using this tactic, are O-Linemen getting THAT athletic that Stunts just don't work anymore?
 
This would be a great opportunity for an enterprising person with some $$$$ to make a an ineractive CD that will teach people the game. It can show plays and diagrams, have the viewer answer questions and even map out what plays should work. Then the media portion of the CD show it in action and show if the play would have worked. Interesting possibilities.

I am so impressed with our forum fans. You don't see these kind of quality posts in other forums. All you see there is "were no 1!" and "Everyone else sucks!"
 
Originally posted by fin-atic
This would be a great opportunity for an enterprising person with some $$$$ to make a an ineractive CD that will teach people the game. It can show plays and diagrams, have the viewer answer questions and even map out what plays should work. Then the media portion of the CD show it in action and show if the play would have worked. Interesting possibilities.

I am so impressed with our forum fans. You don't see these kind of quality posts in other forums. All you see there is "were no 1!" and "Everyone else sucks!"
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yeah! this board rules! :D
 
Originally posted by Barbarian
Another thing I have noticed this year... is it just me or are D-Lines stunting a lot less this year than they have in the past? I have watched and noticed a drastic decline in stunts... anybody know anything that I missed? Why have they stopped using this tactic, are O-Linemen getting THAT athletic that Stunts just don't work anymore?
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Just conjecture here, but the decrease in stunts (apart from some trendy blitzes) may be related to teh increase in QB mobility in recent years. Although it is an extreme case, an example may be the MNF game last week, where McNabb exploited some huge running lanes in the Giants D. If linemen stunt less, there should be narrower lanes available on a more consistent basis. Although in the case of the Giants defense, they weren't gashed through stunting too much, they did have more success containing McNabb when they showed discipline in their rush.

_________________________
Do or do not......there is no try
 
Nice post there surferosa. I consider myself fairly football knowledgeable (even though I am only in high school). Most of my knowledge comes from actually playing. Although I am a wide receiver, I still try to learn as much about blocking schemes and defensive line stunts as I can. As for actually telling how good a player is, it is sometimes hard to tell. Expecially at positions like cornerback and safety. They may look like they can't cover anybody, but they could be playing a zone coverage and not be responsible for that part of the field. Overall, I think one of the most under-rated players on our team is Dedric Ward. His routes are so smooth and precise and he is nearly impossible to cover for a nickel corner when he is in the slot. One of the better slot receivers in this league, if not the best (Wayne Chrebet is great as well).
 
Man a real intelligent thread worth commenting on..this is a great question..the truth of the matter is only the coaches know for sure...because they're the ones who evaluate the guys...and basically they evaluate them on what they teach them..We evaluate them on how effective the overall team is..thus we only evaluate wins and loses...base on key people performances..we know a o line is doing good when the rb gains 100+ yards and the qb only gets sack 2 or less times...but when things are going bad we don't know what individual is having a great game but not effecting the overall game..When Derrek Rogers got a 10 mil dollar contract, my first thought was WHAT...but then I remembered the coaches evaluated him and apparently he must be doing what they've asked...This is an area of play during a game that we will never be experts on,,,especially looking TV which follows the ball only and every thing else is a wash...even when I record a game and reveiw..I only watch a certain area and miss a lot more..We can only be superficial experts at best..but isn't that what makes a fan a fan..did we win or lose..and who didn't help us...Our key players are our focus because they get paid the most to do the most for us..but they can't do much without the nonkey guys...we have to keep that in mind..thanks for the reminder.
 
Just get Madden 2003 to learn the game.

I am even amazed at how accurate and detailed plays and formations are in Madden video games. Unbelieveable!!
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Wanna learn the game? Get Madden 2003. It is that simple.

"Its in the game!" is not just a slogan, it is the truth!
I personally know two coaches who use Madden 2002 to teach their junior varsity teams the little details of football. There are a few coaches who use Madden 2003 to design plays.

Madden does a wonderful job of teaching you how plays are suppose to work.
These are not just made up crap and just thrown into a video game. Madden is way beyond that and some. It is a true football simulation.
I'm not saying that this game has no faults, but it is the closest you will get to learning who is suppose to cover who or who is responsible for what in a play.
 
Originally posted by fin-atic
This would be a great opportunity for an enterprising person with some $$$$ to make a an ineractive CD that will teach people the game. It can show plays and diagrams, have the viewer answer questions and even map out what plays should work. Then the media portion of the CD show it in action and show if the play would have worked. Interesting possibilities.

I am so impressed with our forum fans. You don't see these kind of quality posts in other forums. All you see there is "were no 1!" and "Everyone else sucks!"
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I understand what you are asking for, but IMO John Madden has already covered this in his game. It has a very good tutorial.
In addition, during a game, one can always "Ask Madden" to see what play he'd think would be best in a certain situation. He isn't right 100% of the time, but most of the time, his plays are pretty good calls.
 
On the comment about a good WR can tell what a defense is doing, a good DB can also tell what a WR is gonna do. Most WR have a thing they do before a cut, or curl or whatever. A lot of times they'll look down, they may look at where they are about to go, (one idiot in my conference takes a big gasp of air and holds it right before he cuts, he is sooo easy to cover). The good ones are the ones who don't do anything noticable, and they are pretty tough to guard. This game is so much fun, its crazy that these guys get paid to play it......
 
as for the technological aspect of the game, watching at home, the fcc has taken care of that. by 2006 all broadcasts are required to be in digital format. that means that the aspect ration of the screen is going to go from 3x4 to a much wider 16x9. this aspect will allow for a much larger veiwing area. we will be able to see from wr to wr instead of te to slot( if you are lucky ).

great thread...
 
Originally posted by MDFINFAN
Man a real intelligent thread worth commenting on..this is a great question..the truth of the matter is only the coaches know for sure...because they're the ones who evaluate the guys...and basically they evaluate them on what they teach them..We evaluate them on how effective the overall team is..thus we only evaluate wins and loses...base on key people performances..we know a o line is doing good when the rb gains 100+ yards and the qb only gets sack 2 or less times...but when things are going bad we don't know what individual is having a great game but not effecting the overall game..When Derrek Rogers got a 10 mil dollar contract, my first thought was WHAT...but then I remembered the coaches evaluated him and apparently he must be doing what they've asked...This is an area of play during a game that we will never be experts on,,,especially looking TV which follows the ball only and every thing else is a wash...even when I record a game and reveiw..I only watch a certain area and miss a lot more..We can only be superficial experts at best..but isn't that what makes a fan a fan..did we win or lose..and who didn't help us...Our key players are our focus because they get paid the most to do the most for us..but they can't do much without the nonkey guys...we have to keep that in mind..thanks for the reminder.
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I think the rodgers situation had a lot to do with how young he was, and how he was improveing. The problem is he hasn't improved since the injury.
 
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