Gus will have a big game Sunday....

[DolphinDevil28]

Go ahead and respond. State your case if you think it's wrong.

I would, but like I said. If I responded with the way I really felt, I'd get banned.

Not because you have Elway #1. That's very arguable.

But what you said about Marino and the reason he's lower, is about on par with what a blind ret@rd with 3 fingers would type.

 

[broncos4life]

way off topic but they just replayed it on the nfl network was anybody else amazed about how well the rolling stones preformed sunday night

a bunch of 60 somethins jumpin around and soundin just about perfect

 

[CashInFist]

Only a Fish homer would dispute that Elway had the strongest arm in the game. Everyone who saw him knows that. Marino the best of all time? No. Marino worked with a great OL, excellent targets to throw to and a great system. I don't know how many of his TD's were passes from the 1 yard line but there were a lot. Marino wasn't a threat to run either like John was. Marino would have never taken Denver to 5 Superbowls becasue he wouldn't have survived behind those small pourous O-lines Elway worked behind in the Reeves era. Dan has ZERO Superbowl championships, and more importantly, took his team there only once. Elway overcame a mediocre coach with no clue how to build a team, very average offensive talent around him, a small finesse type defense and still took his team to 5 Superbowls. Had he been given Shanahan quality coaching and talent early in his career there's no telling what he'd have done. As for Favre, Elway beat him head to head in the big one that counted, and Brett has not shown he can put a team on his back the way John did. No way he's the 2nd best ever. I've seen Unitas, Namath, Stabler, Tarkenton, Bradshaw, Dawson...everything back to '68. I rank them in the post '68 era like this:

1. Elway
2. Montana
3. Bradshaw
3. Favre
4. Marino
5. Staubach
6. Manning
7. Tarkenton
8. Fouts
9. Young
10. Aikman

After scanning that huge post, I was out after reading #3A.

 

[Hoofbeats]

I would, but like I said. If I responded with the way I really felt, I'd get banned.

Not because you have Elway #1. That's very arguable.

But what you said about Marino and the reason he's lower, is about on par with what a blind ****** with 3 fingers would type.

Marino is the greatest pure passer I've ever seen, including Manning. He was not the greatest QB of all time. It's not about stats. It's about winning. Simple really...you can't be called the greatest QB ever if you NEVER won the big one. I'd cut him some slack if he'd gone to a couple more Superbowls but he didn't. Marino benefitted enormously from having Shula, the best pass blocking O-Line in the game and great receivers...plus a system that passed constantly. Elway had none of that. Neither did the rest of those guys. Dan makes the top 5 based on stats alone, not winning.

Now show otherwise.

 

[Hoofbeats]

After scanning that huge post, I was out after reading #3A.

He's got 4 rings. How many does Dan have?

 

[CashInFist]

He's got 4 rings. How many does Dan have?

T-E-A-M

 

[DolphinDevil28]

He's got 4 rings. How many does Dan have?

That right there just screams of ignorance.

So you are saying Brad Johnson and Trent Dilfer are better than Dan too?

Hey, how many rings did Elway get before he had a great running back and great defense?

 

[Hoofbeats]

That right there just screams of ignorance.

So you are saying Brad Johnson and Trent Dilfer are better than Dan too?

Hey, how many rings did Elway get before he had a great running back and great defense?

I don't see Brad Johnson or Trent Dilfer on the list. Do you? Elway didn't GET the ring until he had a great runner (I wouldn't say our D was great...good but not great) but he WENT to 3 Superbowls with teams that had nothing BUT him and had no business even being in the playoffs. Marino didn't use his available talent nearly as well as John did.

That's a fact.

 

[broncos4life]

i think hoofbeats has it right. he gave marino the credit for being the best pure passer to ever play. but elway having the total package he could throw and if plays broke down he could scramble around and make time or even run for it if he had no other options. and the come back kid having 47 4th quarter comebacks for a win thats untouchable

 

[DolphinDevil28]

i think hoofbeats has it right. he gave marino the credit for being the best pure passer to ever play. but elway having the total package he could throw and if plays broke down he could scramble around and make time or even run for it if he had no other options. and the come back kid having 47 4th quarter comebacks for a win thats untouchable

And I said that Elway was arguably the best of all time.


But having Marino that low on the list for the reason of not having a ring is borderline stupidity.

I take it back. It's beyond stupidity.

 

[broncos4life]

yeah i think he belongs higher up on that list but a ring could realy help his status in the all time ranking especialy 10 years down the line when the likes of manning and mcnabb have had full carreers

 

[Hoofbeats]

And I said that Elway was arguably the best of all time.


But having Marino that low on the list for the reason of not having a ring is borderline stupidity.

I take it back. It's beyond stupidity.

Like it or not, QB's are not judged like wide receivers, linebackers or nose tackles. Part of their mythology is they have to win it all to be considered truly great. Ever hear anyone say about a defensive end...he's great BUT he never won the big one? No. We know that a QB is more responsible than the rest of the team as the key piece of the puzzle. The greatest have to win the big one. Pure and simple.

Marino had a Superbowl winning coach, one of the greatest of all time in Shula. John had...Dan Reeves, who flat out sucked. Dan should have been able to at least win one more AFC championship in his career given the talent he had. He didn't. Therefore he lands at #4, and that's being kind. I could easily put him as low as 7th with no championships to his credit.

Again...it's about winning, not stats.

 

[broncos4life]

oh damn look at the time well i'll be back a little bit tomorow and like 4 sunday

 

[DolphinDevil28]

Like it or not, QB's are not judged like wide receivers, linebackers or nose tackles. Part of their mythology is they have to win it all to be considered truly great. Ever hear anyone say about a defensive end...he's great BUT he never won the big one? No. We know that a QB is more responsible than the rest of the team as the key piece of the puzzle. The greatest have to win the big one. Pure and simple.

Marino had da Superbowl winning coach, one of the greatest of all time in Shula. John had...Dan Reeves, who flat out sucked. Dan should have been able to at least win one more AFC championship in his career given the talent he had. He didn't. Therefore he lands at #4, and that's being kind. I could easily put him as low as 7th with no championships to his credit.

Again...it's about winning, not stats.

So once again, your logic says that the likes of Dilfer and such are better than Dan.

And that argument is flawed.

You are judging the worth of a QB by his surroundings. Not by the individual player. Sorry, but you are just wrong.

 

[Hoofbeats]

So once again, your logic says that the likes of Dilfer and such are better than Dan.

And that argument is flawed.

You are judging the worth of a QB by his surroundings. Not by the individual player. Sorry, but you are just wrong.

Your straw man argument is flawed for two reasons 1) I did NOT say Dilfer and Johnson or anybody of that caliber was better. Stop saying I did; and 2) Yes, it IS acceptable to judge the QB by his surroundings because part of his job is to make everyone else better. Good QB's win games and great ones win playoff games but the GREATEST win it all. That doesn't mean some good to great QB's with tons of talent around them might not sneak in there now and then. But Marino can't claim his "surroundings" were against him. He had MORE talent than Elway had to work with, a better head coach BY FAR, and a terriffic system perfectly suited for his talents.

We had Sammy Winder, Gerald Willhite, Steve Sewell, Clarence Kay, Vance Johnson, Mark Jackson...all journeyman mediocre talent guys. Marino had more tools to work with and accomplished less, regardless of what his stats say.