Harrington better than Culpepper? Maybe so...

[RenoFinFan]

Over the past couple of weeks I have seen many posts bashing Harrington and anyone suggesting that the time has come to give him a shot. My favorite posts have been from the fans who show their IQ matches Culpepper’s uniform number with statements like, “If you want Harrington to start then you are just STUPID! No way can Harrington play as well as Culpeppper.” It is tough to argue with such logic. I have learned it useless to discuss situations intelligently with someone who can only come up with “you are just STUPID” statements.

I do think comparing Culpepper with Harrington is possible. I do not think a legitimate comparison can be made when Culpepper had Moss, Carter, Smith, OL (2000 – 2004), etc…because the talent level surrounding Culpepper far exceeded that of the talent surrounding Harrington. However, I do think a fair comparison can be made between Harrington and Culpepper using Harrington’s stats for 2004 and 2005 against Culpepper’s stats 2005 and 2006. IMO both QBs played with less than stellar OL, WR and RB play during this time. I do believe Culpepper has had a little higher talent level surrounding him (Minnesota, Miami) than Harrington had in Detroit, but not much.

Harrington’s numbers the past two years:

Harrington 2004 = 274 comp, 489 att, 56.0%, 3047 yds, 19 TD, 12 picks, 77.5 rating
Harrington 2005 = 188 comp, 330 att, 57.0%, 2021 yds, 12 TD, 12 picks, 72.0 rating

Culpepper’s numbers the past two years are:

Culpepper 2005 = 139 comp, 216 att, 64.4%, 1564 yds, 6 TD, 12 picks, 72.0 rating
Culpepper 2006 = 81 comp, 134 att, 60.4%, 929 yds, 2 TD, 3 picks, 77.0 rating

The combined stats for the two QBs:

Harrington= 462 comp, 819 att, 56.4%, 5068 yds, 31 TD, 24 picks, 75.2 rating
Culpepper = 220 comp, 350 att, 62.9%, 2493 yds, 8 TD, 15 picks, 73.9 rating

The tradeoff appears to be much higher completion percentage for Culpepper, but a much higher TD to Interception ratio for Harrington.

I am not quite as confident as many others on finheaven that Culpepper really is the better QB today. The recent stats don’t indicate he is. I would trade a lower completion percentage for a better TD to interception ratio any day. So as for me, I am ready to see Harrington get a chance to see what he can do at QB because I have seen what Culpepper has done and IMO it would be hard for Harrington to do much worse.

 

[ralexand]

How long did it take you to come up with that? You shouldn't have wasted you time. Anyone can pick and choose the right stats to fit any argument. Try again this time comparing a healthy qb's numbers with Harrington or one that doesn't conveniently leave out Daunte's stats in 2004 and before with a guy discarded for 6th rounder.

 

[bluehaze]

I am ready to see Harrington get a chance to see what he can do at QB because I have seen what Culpepper has done and IMO it would be hard for Harrington to do much worse.

I think you might get your wish soon my friend. The more I think about Joey practicing today and Daunte being on the Injured list the more I think Saban is going to put him in at New England if Daunte continues to play poorly.

As far as the argument of which one will be better you made a nice intelligent post however their are two types of fans on this board the bandwagoners that just became fans because Daunte is here and the longstanding fans that just want whats best for the team. You can argue with the former until your blue in the face but since they are only fans of Daunte and not the team they will continue to pelt you with the "your stupid" stuff simply because Daunte can do no wrong in their eyes.


I find it best just to ignore them and move on, it is however getting to the point that I would rather see Joey playing just so we wouldn't have to put up with the Daunte bandwagon for awhile :evil:

Cheers

 

[RenoFinFan]

How long did it take you to come up with that? You shouldn't have wasted you time. Anyone can pick and choose the right stats to fit any argument. Try again this time comparing a healthy qb's numbers with Harrington or one that doesn't conveniently leave out Daunte's stats in 2004 and before with a guy discarded for 6th rounder.

Only took a couple of minutes. Culpepper was healthy in 2005, but he was surrounded by offensive talent comparable to that of Harrington IMO.

 

[adamprez2003]

I saw a few games of Harrington last season and he actually looked like he had turned the corner to me. I remember actually thinking that he might become a decent QB. What I remember from the games I saw is an unbelievable amount of dropped passes by the receivers. I'm not talking two or three but five or six in one game. It was nuts. And I'll tell you one thing I give him credit for. I thought he would be a wuss coming out of college but he's a tough SOB. I'm not saying physically, havent seen him enough, but mentally that guy is tough. That guy doesnt let mistakes like dropped passes get to him, he just acts as if its time to get to the next play. LOL, maybe he was used to it by then. I dont know if he'll be good and I dont go by stats, I just go by what I see and what I saw last year I liked. What I saw two and three years ago I didnt like. So, since the guy is young and healthy I bet we got a QB who's close to being good and just might be if given the chance.

 

[Desides]

Culpepper was healthy in 2005

No, he wasn't. Culpepper sustained a right knee injury against Tampa Bay that he was playing through for the entire 2005 season until the Carolina game.

 

[RenoFinFan]

No, he wasn't. Culpepper sustained a right knee injury against Tampa Bay that he was playing through for the entire 2005 season until the Carolina game.

He didn't seem to have a problem running the ball. His 6.1 yards per rush last year was the highest of his career. I also assume if he was seriously hurt then Brad Johnson would have played sooner since he is a capable QB who led TB to a SB win a couple of years earlier.

Playing with minor injuries comes with the territory in the NFL. I am guessing with the poor OL Harrington played behind for four years he suited up on some Sundays with minor injuries of his own.

 

[The Franchise]

6 TD's and 12 INT's + 2 TD's and 3 INT's = 8 TD's and 15 INT's

Not 8 TD's and 13 INT's

 

[RenoFinFan]

6 TD's and 12 INT's + 2 TD's and 3 INT's = 8 TD's and 15 INT's

Not 8 TD's and 13 INT's

Thanks...adjustment made.

 

[bluehaze]

He didn't seem to have a problem running the ball. His 6.1 yards per rush last year was the highest of his career. I also assume if he was seriously hurt then Brad Johnson would have played sooner since he is a capable QB who led TB to a SB win a couple of years earlier.

Thats because he basically locked on to his primary reciever and if he wasn't open he ran the ball, which is what got him hurt. Now that he can't do that he's really struggling. The more I think about it the more i'm ready to jump on the Joey bandwagon. Hate to give up on the guy so soon but I really would like to see how Joey looks in comparison to Daunte given the same situation.

 

[Spiff]

Somehow, to me it seems that all these "Put Harrington in"-threadstarters and supporters act like little children who cry just for the sake of it - and until they get what they wish for.

Come on guys, you cannot be serious. We need CONSISTENCY. You saw it last season when all the players out there finally started to gel. Now, we have new OFF and DEF coordinators, two new QB's, a revamped secondary. They all need to develop that team CHEMISTRY, they have to function together. Saban makes sure all these guys will be on the same page once this season is over. Too late to make the playoffs then? So what! Last time I checked, there will be a 2007 NFL season. I don't say THIS season is over yet but Saban is building for the long run - which will end in a SuperBowl run sooner than later. And until then we have to be patient, we will lose heartbreaking games but hey, noone ever said the road to glory would be easy.

 

[DolfinDave]

Good job of actually doing the research. I can't stand when poor logic is used no matter what side of the argument you fall on. I just can't help but look at their whole careers when I compare the two. But I do agree with you that it is not fair or maybe even possible to compare the two. They are two very different QBs who have played on two pretty different teams.

So when I look at Harrington's career, I see only one year in which he had more TDs than INTs. That doesn't sit well with me. He has had some terrible run support for most of his career. But if we are going to criticize Culpepper for INTs, then why can't we criticize Harrington for his? Culpepper has 27 more INTs for his career, but he has played in 26 more games than Harrington. He also has 77 more TDs during that period. I just find it very hard to look at these numbers and say that Harrington can be better than Culpepper at this point. This is not to say that Harrington can't be successful. But he hasn't given much of an indication that he can be. That is probably why a terrible team such as the Lions gave up on him and opted for a veteran.

 

[Aussiefinfan54]

yes harrington should be in there culpepper has had his chance and joey deserves his!!!

 

[FinsFan74]

Somehow, to me it seems that all these "Put Harrington in"-threadstarters and supporters act like little children who cry just for the sake of it - and until they get what they wish for.

Come on guys, you cannot be serious. We need CONSISTENCY. You saw it last season when all the players out there finally started to gel. Now, we have new OFF and DEF coordinators, two new QB's, a revamped secondary. They all need to develop that team CHEMISTRY, they have to function together. Saban makes sure all these guys will be on the same page once this season is over. Too late to make the playoffs then? So what! Last time I checked, there will be a 2007 NFL season. I don't say THIS season is over yet but Saban is building for the long run - which will end in a SuperBowl run sooner than later. And until then we have to be patient, we will lose heartbreaking games but hey, noone ever said the road to glory would be easy.

I'm not so sure.....we have one of the oldest defensive units in the NFL

 

[FinHopeful]

We need to stick with our starting QB and not jump ship because of 4 games. If it was clear Daunte was performing horrible, then maybe after 6 to 8 games you might think about it. I got news for you. Daunte is not playing that bad. Most people belive that completion %, YPA, and QB rating are good measures of a quarterback. So here are these stats for two starting QBs:

QB1 54.1%, 6.7 (22nd in NFL), 80.7
QB2 60.4%, 6.93 (17th), 77.0

Which one do you think is Dante? If you guessed QB2, then you are correct!!! Who is QB1? Well, he has a higher rating but a lower complete % and YPA. You know he must have thrown more TDs. Please give a hand to Tom Brady (QB1). Hmmm. Stats are not that different. Hmmmm. Why have the Patriots won more games? Hmmmm. Maybe it is because the entire offensive team around Tom Brady is executing the play correctly. Maybe everyone on the offensive team around Daunte is not executing the play correctly. ..... Nah, that is too simple an explanation.