Henne and the myth of zone coverage

[Avalanche of Wins]

henne stuggles against everything because he locks onto his receivers, has no pocket awareness, no touch and horrible anticipation.

 

[dolphone]

No you are providing bull**** spin and come to think of it you remind me of a member here that has vanished Hugo Guzman. He used to troll the boards with these theories of well I have enough proof. Or Henne hasn't hit the magical 30 starts. Bla bla bla go watch the game tape from last year and Henne was terrible in zone coverage and the umbrella. To often he doesn't find the Lb dropping back or the safety baiting him. So it is either the stats are lying 19 ints and several other dropped ints 5 in the Detroit game alone. Or nothing no amount of evidence, film or fact will sway your opinion. Why? Because you are a Henne supporter and what you want people to say is it is all.Dan Hennings fault! As if Henning was playing Madden real life and had a remote control on Henne making those crap throws.

Hehe. That's hilarious.

I'm not a Henne *anything*. I think that he's too f-ing inconsistent and unless that changes, he'll never amount to anything in the league. But I am a hater. A hater of BS.

People love to spew arguments without support. Anywhere. About anything. And they *hate* to be called on it, because people also love to believe whatever anyone else is saying, so long it supports their point. So of course, if you're convinced X player sucks, you'll believe whatever argument is brought forth that entails "X player sucks".

I'm sick and tired of people saying stuff just for the hell of it, throwing crap on the wall and see if it sticks. Well, you know what? It doesn't stick. You want to believe Henne sucks against zone, fine. No skin off my behind. But if you want to use that argument on any intelligent discussion, you better be prepared to defend it. And if you don't have anything to prove it, don't come and tell me that *I* have to prove you wrong. No, buddy. You're the one with the specious argument. I'm just asking for proof.

I don't have theories. I'm not saying he excels against zone, just that there's no proof that he sucks against them. You think by watching some TV broadcast you can make an educated opinion about it? Be my guest. But here's a tip: those coaches you mention, that just "know" he sucks against zone? They don't rely on cropped, "focus-on-the-ball" TV broadcasts. They do have actual *film*. I can't go watch it because I don't work in the NFL, nor on NFL Matchup (the only guys who do have that stuff to their disposal).

But neither can you, and that makes your argument fatally flawed.

 

[dolpns13]

Henne is a one read QB, if his 1st WR isn't open or covered one on one he's looking to check it down.

He also stares down WR's and he does that because he still can't tell when a team is playing a zone or not.So he keeps looking at the WR until he figures it out if their really one on one or not.That's part of why people say he can't read the field........the other part is he doesn't go from his 1st to 2nd to 3rd read like a starting QB should "or even a backup" and that's the other part about reading the field he's just not good at.

He seemed to play better his 1st year because being a " One Read QB " we really didn't have a #1 WR but last year we did and now teams know where his 1st read is going to be 70% of the time, and his 1st year they didn't.

He also played like an old Vet who doesn't want to get hit and that's why he stops looking down field and try's to run when he's getting rushed....that's also a huge NO, NO.....and it's something he didn't do his 1st year starting.He also held the TE's in and the FB in a lot to help block and he only did that because he doesn't want to get hit.

If all he does is stand in the pocket like a MAN, we'll have a some kind of chance this year.......but this team won't really have much of a chance at winning until we find a QB that can read the field and stand in the pocket like a man.

I hope he can change but i wouldn't bet on it.

There were maybe one or two games at most I saw him going through all his reads. But 99.9% its his first read, checkdown

 

[dolphone]

So what you are saying is you have no basis for your argument as well. Eh, I really could care less. I know Henne sucks against zone coverages from what I have seen with my own two eyes - that being said, he really isnt that much better against man coverages either.

I guess you really *could* care less, since you've spent the better part of the evening on this thread.

 

[dolphone]

Henne is a one read QB, if his 1st WR isn't open or covered one on one he's looking to check it down.

He also stares down WR's and he does that because he still can't tell when a team is playing a zone or not.So he keeps looking at the WR until he figures it out if their really one on one or not.That's part of why people say he can't read the field........the other part is he doesn't go from his 1st to 2nd to 3rd read like a starting QB should "or even a backup" and that's the other part about reading the field he's just not good at.

He seemed to play better his 1st year because being a " One Read QB " we really didn't have a #1 WR but last year we did and now teams know where his 1st read is going to be 70% of the time, and his 1st year they didn't.

He also played like an old Vet who doesn't want to get hit and that's why he stops looking down field and try's to run when he's getting rushed....that's also a huge NO, NO.....and it's something he didn't do his 1st year starting.He also held the TE's in and the FB in a lot to help block and he only did that because he doesn't want to get hit.

If all he does is stand in the pocket like a MAN, we'll have a some kind of chance this year.......but this team won't really have much of a chance at winning until we find a QB that can read the field and stand in the pocket like a man.

I hope he can change but i wouldn't bet on it.

This I do agree with, but (sadly) it has nothing to with performance against zone.

 

[dolpns13]

Hehe. That's hilarious.

I'm not a Henne *anything*. I think that he's too f-ing inconsistent and unless that changes, he'll never amount to anything in the league. But I am a hater. A hater of BS.

People love to spew arguments without support. Anywhere. About anything. And they *hate* to be called on it, because people also love to believe whatever anyone else is saying, so long it supports their point. So of course, if you're convinced X player sucks, you'll believe whatever argument is brought forth that entails "X player sucks".

I'm sick and tired of people saying stuff just for the hell of it, throwing crap on the wall and see if it sticks. Well, you know what? It doesn't stick. You want to believe Henne sucks against zone, fine. No skin off my behind. But if you want to use that argument on any intelligent discussion, you better be prepared to defend it. And if you don't have anything to prove it, don't come and tell me that *I* have to prove you wrong. No, buddy. You're the one with the specious argument. I'm just asking for proof.

I don't have theories. I'm not saying he excels against zone, just that there's no proof that he sucks against them. You think by watching some TV broadcast you can make an educated opinion about it? Be my guest. But here's a tip: those coaches you mention, that just "know" he sucks against zone? They don't rely on cropped, "focus-on-the-ball" TV broadcasts. They do have actual *film*. I can't go watch it because I don't work in the NFL, nor on NFL Matchup (the only guys who do have that stuff to their disposal).

But neither can you, and that makes your argument fatally flawed.

There has been support throughout this whole thread as to why he sucks in zone.. Youre obviously one sighted.

 

[dolpns13]

This I do agree with, but (sadly) it has nothing to with performance against zone.

you think first reads can be covered in a zone? Lol..ok bro.. This is why I know it is pointless to really try to debate this with you.

 

[dolpns13]

I guess you really *could* care less, since you've spent the better part of the evening on this thread.

Look at the length of my posts compared to yours. I could really care less (mainly due to the fact that your so obviously wrong it isnt worth it to put alot of thought into debating you). Im just passing time.

 

[flynryan15]

Hehe. That's hilarious.

I'm not a Henne *anything*. I think that he's too f-ing inconsistent and unless that changes, he'll never amount to anything in the league. But I am a hater. A hater of BS.

People love to spew arguments without support. Anywhere. About anything. And they *hate* to be called on it, because people also love to believe whatever anyone else is saying, so long it supports their point. So of course, if you're convinced X player sucks, you'll believe whatever argument is brought forth that entails "X player sucks".

I'm sick and tired of people saying stuff just for the hell of it, throwing crap on the wall and see if it sticks. Well, you know what? It doesn't stick. You want to believe Henne sucks against zone, fine. No skin off my behind. But if you want to use that argument on any intelligent discussion, you better be prepared to defend it. And if you don't have anything to prove it, don't come and tell me that *I* have to prove you wrong. No, buddy. You're the one with the specious argument. I'm just asking for proof.

I don't have theories. I'm not saying he excels against zone, just that there's no proof that he sucks against them. You think by watching some TV broadcast you can make an educated opinion about it? Be my guest. But here's a tip: those coaches you mention, that just "know" he sucks against zone? They don't rely on cropped, "focus-on-the-ball" TV broadcasts. They do have actual *film*. I can't go watch it because I don't work in the NFL, nor on NFL Matchup (the only guys who do have that stuff to their disposal).

But neither can you, and that makes your argument fatally flawed.

No what you are doing is posting the same vommit I.see no evidence. But you got one thing right Henne isn't a QB! Yeah he has had more success beating man coverage and the blitz, butt is limited success. Success that no where near matches his blow UPS against man to.


You want evidence? Here it is preseason called out by Parcells for not developing. During the season called out by his OC for not developing and pushing the ball down the field. During the season his HC confirms Henne is not being aggressive enough. During the season because Henne is struggling going through his reads and progressions staff admits they have cut the field in half for Henne reducing his reads and progressions.

Go back to the first Pats game and Henne making that scrub polock LB look like a All Pro. Henne never diagnosed the coverage and he certainly didn't see the LB dropping in the zone. Result 2 picks same coverage same route. Why? Because Henne locks on receiver waiting for him to come out of his break, relying on his ARM, and forcing the ball in.late. That is a classic problem in a QB developing from college to the pros. You can get away with it in college but not in the NFL.

Now let's look back to 09 against the Charges and Bucs. Henne on the rollout locked on WR never seeing the safety baiting him, Result 2 identical ints. He made that same mistake last year I just can't recall the game.

You want struggles against man? Cleveland game and how many picks did Joe Harden have 2? 3? Yep a rookie corner on a island baiting Henne.

 

[dolpns13]

No what you are doing is posting the same vommit I.see no evidence. But you got one thing right Henne isn't a QB! Yeah he has had more success beating man coverage and the blitz, butt is limited success. Success that no where near matches his blow UPS against man to.


You want evidence? Here it is preseason called out by Parcells for not developing. During the season called out by his OC for not developing and pushing the ball down the field. During the season his HC confirms Henne is not being aggressive enough. During the season because Henne is struggling going through his reads and progressions staff admits they have cut the field in half for Henne reducing his reads and progressions.

Go back to the first Pats game and Henne making that scrub polock LB look like a All Pro. Henne never diagnosed the coverage and he certainly didn't see the LB dropping in the zone. Result 2 picks same coverage same route. Why? Because Henne locks on receiver waiting for him to come out of his break, relying on his ARM, and forcing the ball in.late. That is a classic problem in a QB developing from college to the pros. You can get away with it in college but not in the NFL.

Now let's look back to 09 against the Charges and Bucs. Henne on the rollout locked on WR never seeing the safety baiting him, Result 2 identical ints. He made that same mistake last year I just can't recall the game.

You want struggles against man? Cleveland game and how many picks did Joe Harden have 2? 3? Yep a rookie corner on a island baiting Henne.

Ive seen this posted in this thread THREE times. Not sure why the OP continues to ignore it.

 

[67Stang]

I think Henne and the receivers struggled against "KNOWN" coverage, as it was known by the defense what routes were going to be ran.

 

[Strangeworld]

I think Henne and the receivers struggled against "KNOWN" coverage, as it was known by the defense what routes were going to be ran.

You're right... it was all because of 'known coverage" that he threw 19 picks and got benched twice.

Christ... WTF is with people on this board trying to defend Henne to the death and making every excuse they can for him.

He is a coach killer and will NOT start more than a handful of games this year before he gets benched again... this time for good.

 

[AtticusFinz]

Henne struggled because the OL wasnt opening holes for Ricky&Ronnie. When you have an offensive scheme that relies heavily on the run setting up the pass and your not gettin it done, I dont care who's QB, your gonna have a long season.

 

[67Stang]

You're right... it was all because of 'known coverage" that he threw 19 picks and got benched twice.

Christ... WTF is with people on this board trying to defend Henne to the death and making every excuse they can for him.

He is a coach killer and will NOT start more than a handful of games this year before he gets benched again... this time for good.

So what is your excuse for Mr. 2nd in MVP voting who had 2 TD's and 6 Int's in his last 4 games. I don't know "WTF" is wrong with people who are too clueless to see that a suck a$$ offense is going to effect a QB's play, and that if the Defense knows what routes are being ran, it helps just a little.

Also, how did it go after he was benched? Ya, exactly....next basher please.

 

[Pachyderm_Wave]

Hmmm.

1. Are you telling me that LBs in zone coverage are Henne's main problem? That's what's meant by "he can't play zone, he can only play man"? You say in another reply, you can't speak for the rest of the forum... but why reply to this thread then? I specifically asked about THAT particular topic. And again, if you're trying to make a case for this argument, at least present some evidence. How many of his INTs/incompletions went to zone LBs? What's his completion percentage otherwise?

2. Nice diversion, but I'm not arguing about Miami's offense. I'm arguing about Henne's (supossed) inability against the zone. It's in the thread title. If you want to argue that Miami's struggle in general is a sign of Henne's struggle, please post some numbers proving that we struggle against C2.

As a small sidebar on this point: when did having talent at the TE position automatically solved all your C2 (I'm guessing you mean Tampa-2, because - once again - C2 is a safety alignment) woes? Alternatively, does missing a "seam busting" TE (whatever that is) automatically disqualifies you attacking T2 teams? I seem to recall teams defeating the T2 with power running, more than these mythical TEs of yore.

3. This takes the cake for me. I'll post your reply again (post 31 in the thread):



WHERE are you saying that Miami's offense (within the short routes that we are arguing about, remember?) wasn't succesful?

4. I'll make this very clear:

I'm not the one with the burden of proof here. If I start saying that you live in Rome, and every time I talk about you I mention that you live in Rome, then people (you, someone who knows you, curious bystanders) might start asking 'hey, why do you say he lives in Rome?' And the burden of proof is mine - I'm the one saying this over and over again. I don't get to say "well just look at him, it's obvious by his writing he lives in Rome". I understand it might not be your battle, but if so... why bother replying? And I don't mean 'shut up and leave' -at all- but if you yourself say that you're not the one saying this stuff... why argue for it?

BTW, I have watched Miami play. And I don't see any noticeable difference between Henne against the zone (or zone LBs) than against any other defense.

PD I don't have anything against Romans, nor do I have any clue where you live

1. I have no idea why I replied to this thread.... but this one will be my last.

2. Chad Henne and Miami's offense were tied together in their struggles. You're not looking for answers, you're looking for somebody to spin arbitrary statistics with you...




The burden of proof isn't on me. Hell, I couldn't care less what your opinion of Chad Henne is.... I know what mine is and how I got it.

The burden of proof is on Chad Henne...