Cranx
☠️ Banned ☠️
You'd think people would figure out the whole Ogunleye "no tradie fo nobody, cause we no havie a contractie with him" by now but I guess not. :nono:
Henson trade option
- Thread starter Bowl_Bound
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We can sign and trade Ogun. Why can't anybody figure that out?
ckparrothead
Premium Member
It is a lot of ifs but then again most signs point to a positive on those Ifs.
Houston was already rumored to be interested in Ogunleye. IF they talk turkey with us about the possible trading of Ogunleye for Henson and a 2nd, then obviously those rumors were true.
If Houston is indeed interested in Ogunleye, negotiations between he and Houston probably will go along just fine. True, Rosenhaus would have the ability to negotiate with other interested teams but how many other interested teams COULD there be? They have to have a 1st and 3rd, and be comfortable with losing both in order to obtain Ogunleye, WHILE still giving him a decent contract. The most likely candidates in this case are teams that draft later in the first round. Seattle and Philly are rumored to be interested. If the Dolphins actually GO ALONG with Ogunleye on this one and open up the option for a trade, this opens up the market for Ogunleye to a lot of teams that either did not have the 1st and 3rd round picks to give up for Ogun, or didnt want to give them up for some reason other (most likely reason being their 1st round pick was too high...ie Houston's #10 pick).
So if anything, Ogunleye and his agent, Drew Rosenhaus, have very good reasons to work with Miami on a trade scenario...especially if the only thing Houston would be giving up for Ogun in this situation is the equivalent of a 2nd this year and a 2nd next year. The people who assume that Ogunleye wouldn't cooperate on a trade I think are overestimating how many teams out there are willing to give a 1st and 3rd for him. IMO there's probably only 2 or 3 teams at the max who might begin earnest negotiations with Rosenhaus outside of a trade scenario, while if Rosenhaus worked with Miami on a trade scenario that number could become 5 or 6 teams. Anything that deepens the market for Ogun and lessens the compensation impact on the team trading/signing him, is better for the prospects of getting Ogunleye more money.
But overall I don't like this particular deal. We wouldn't be getting enough. Would you rather have a 2nd this year and a 2nd next year, or a late first and late third this year? I think I would rather have the latter.
Houston was already rumored to be interested in Ogunleye. IF they talk turkey with us about the possible trading of Ogunleye for Henson and a 2nd, then obviously those rumors were true.
If Houston is indeed interested in Ogunleye, negotiations between he and Houston probably will go along just fine. True, Rosenhaus would have the ability to negotiate with other interested teams but how many other interested teams COULD there be? They have to have a 1st and 3rd, and be comfortable with losing both in order to obtain Ogunleye, WHILE still giving him a decent contract. The most likely candidates in this case are teams that draft later in the first round. Seattle and Philly are rumored to be interested. If the Dolphins actually GO ALONG with Ogunleye on this one and open up the option for a trade, this opens up the market for Ogunleye to a lot of teams that either did not have the 1st and 3rd round picks to give up for Ogun, or didnt want to give them up for some reason other (most likely reason being their 1st round pick was too high...ie Houston's #10 pick).
So if anything, Ogunleye and his agent, Drew Rosenhaus, have very good reasons to work with Miami on a trade scenario...especially if the only thing Houston would be giving up for Ogun in this situation is the equivalent of a 2nd this year and a 2nd next year. The people who assume that Ogunleye wouldn't cooperate on a trade I think are overestimating how many teams out there are willing to give a 1st and 3rd for him. IMO there's probably only 2 or 3 teams at the max who might begin earnest negotiations with Rosenhaus outside of a trade scenario, while if Rosenhaus worked with Miami on a trade scenario that number could become 5 or 6 teams. Anything that deepens the market for Ogun and lessens the compensation impact on the team trading/signing him, is better for the prospects of getting Ogunleye more money.
But overall I don't like this particular deal. We wouldn't be getting enough. Would you rather have a 2nd this year and a 2nd next year, or a late first and late third this year? I think I would rather have the latter.
Ogunleye for Henson is crazy. Ogun is a proven player, a pro-bowler, turning into a star if not a star already. Henson has palyed what 8 college games and hasn't played in three years??? Henson is as big as or more than a gamble than any player taken in the draft. Any GM that pulls the trigger on this deal should get fired. Do you want to know what I really feel about this trade??? 
BTW Ogun also can't be traded because the Trading Period hasn't started yet. :roflmao:
BTW Ogun also can't be traded because the Trading Period hasn't started yet. :roflmao:
ckparrothead
Premium Member
Well I certainly wouldn't trade Ogunleye straight up.
But I would trade Ogunleye and our 20th for Henson and their #10. Would they though? Hard to say.
If you think about it this way lets say the asking price for Henson is set to be a 2nd in 2005. We're a team that expects to be somewhere between mediocre in 2005 and a contender, which means the following.
#10 pick in draft = 1300 pts
#20 pick in draft = 900 pts
2005 second rd = 225 pts
1300 + 225 = 900 + X
X = (Ogunleye)
In order for Ogunleye to = 625 points, he would have to be worth the #31 pick in the draft or better. In fact, a 1st and 3rd price tag for him ensures the fact that he's worth AT LEAST 715 points (thats if we got the last pick in the 1st round and the last pick in the 3rd). So even if the Texans were planning to ask a little bit more for Henson than just a 2005 2nd round pick (ie they wanted some conditionals) they should be attracted by the offer.
And since if they are attracted by the offer of Ogunleye in trade, that means they are interested in paying him what he needs to be paid.
Its almost exactly the same situation as using a franchise tag on a player and then trading him. The situation is set up the same way. When Peerless became a free agent he was allowed to negotiate with any team he wants to, however the fact that teams would have to pay two firsts for him meant demand for him would be low, hence the Bills allowed him to seek a trade. The Redskins have recently made it known to Champ Bailey and his agent that they are about to embark on a similar venture.
RFAs and Franchise players both receive a tender offer that they have to sign prior to being traded for less than or something equivalent to the guaranteed compensation.
But I would trade Ogunleye and our 20th for Henson and their #10. Would they though? Hard to say.
If you think about it this way lets say the asking price for Henson is set to be a 2nd in 2005. We're a team that expects to be somewhere between mediocre in 2005 and a contender, which means the following.
#10 pick in draft = 1300 pts
#20 pick in draft = 900 pts
2005 second rd = 225 pts
1300 + 225 = 900 + X
X = (Ogunleye)
In order for Ogunleye to = 625 points, he would have to be worth the #31 pick in the draft or better. In fact, a 1st and 3rd price tag for him ensures the fact that he's worth AT LEAST 715 points (thats if we got the last pick in the 1st round and the last pick in the 3rd). So even if the Texans were planning to ask a little bit more for Henson than just a 2005 2nd round pick (ie they wanted some conditionals) they should be attracted by the offer.
And since if they are attracted by the offer of Ogunleye in trade, that means they are interested in paying him what he needs to be paid.
Its almost exactly the same situation as using a franchise tag on a player and then trading him. The situation is set up the same way. When Peerless became a free agent he was allowed to negotiate with any team he wants to, however the fact that teams would have to pay two firsts for him meant demand for him would be low, hence the Bills allowed him to seek a trade. The Redskins have recently made it known to Champ Bailey and his agent that they are about to embark on a similar venture.
RFAs and Franchise players both receive a tender offer that they have to sign prior to being traded for less than or something equivalent to the guaranteed compensation.
Grid
What? no Texans flag?
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id be interested in it. Ogun is still young and we need Dlinemen. We also have the cap space to take more than one big name player this year.
But henson and a 2nd for ogun? nope.. not gonna happen. Henson and a 4th maybe.
Henson and our 1st for Ogun and your 1st also sounds interesting.
Our front office has expressed interest in Sean Taylor and Kenechi Udeze.. but both could very possibly be gone before the 10th pick.. so we may be willing to trade down to the 20th.
ya never know.
But henson and a 2nd for ogun? nope.. not gonna happen. Henson and a 4th maybe.
Henson and our 1st for Ogun and your 1st also sounds interesting.
Our front office has expressed interest in Sean Taylor and Kenechi Udeze.. but both could very possibly be gone before the 10th pick.. so we may be willing to trade down to the 20th.
ya never know.
Phinzone
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Henson and a second? Don't make me laugh.
Let's overlookt he fact that O-gun has to agree to have his rights traded, and that he would actually do that for HOUSTON, and forego his right to shop around to teams where he actually has a chance of getting to a SB
Now. Would YOU give a first for Henson? i wouldn't, the guys played 8 games since HIGH SCHOOL. That is NOT first round material. I'm sorry, but it's not! That would be a crazy trade, even at the 20th pick in the first. With other viable QB options out there, Henson is NOT worth a first this year. i'm willing to give a second for a totally unproven guy that can throw. And that's saying a lot for me.
Now, Henson for a first AND O-gun?! What are you thinking?! If O-gun goes ANYWHERE in the NFL, we get TWO first rounders, and a third round pick. If Houston alone wants him, they have to give us the 10th pick in the draft AND the 10th third round pick for him alone. The rights to O-gun and Henson for a THIRD rounder is acceptable, but no way would we give up our first rounder. Why would we? We could be sitting with 2 firsts, and 2 thirds, rather than A first and A third. At the same time we gain a TOTALLY unproven talent, and lose a pro-bowl calibre DE. No thank you!
Let's overlookt he fact that O-gun has to agree to have his rights traded, and that he would actually do that for HOUSTON, and forego his right to shop around to teams where he actually has a chance of getting to a SB
Now. Would YOU give a first for Henson? i wouldn't, the guys played 8 games since HIGH SCHOOL. That is NOT first round material. I'm sorry, but it's not! That would be a crazy trade, even at the 20th pick in the first. With other viable QB options out there, Henson is NOT worth a first this year. i'm willing to give a second for a totally unproven guy that can throw. And that's saying a lot for me.
Now, Henson for a first AND O-gun?! What are you thinking?! If O-gun goes ANYWHERE in the NFL, we get TWO first rounders, and a third round pick. If Houston alone wants him, they have to give us the 10th pick in the draft AND the 10th third round pick for him alone. The rights to O-gun and Henson for a THIRD rounder is acceptable, but no way would we give up our first rounder. Why would we? We could be sitting with 2 firsts, and 2 thirds, rather than A first and A third. At the same time we gain a TOTALLY unproven talent, and lose a pro-bowl calibre DE. No thank you!
Once again, if Ogun goes, who will replace him? And please, don't tell me Williams or Bowens as neither of them is close to be Ogun as far as playing both the run and rushing the QB.Everyone's thinking about what player we can get for our offence but nobody's thinking about how terrible our pass rush would be next year without him in there.We get no pass rush from Timbo and/or Chester so our pass rush comes from our DE's. With no Wally then JT really will get double on every play next year so the QB will have all day to trow and I don't care how good our corners are, with no pass rush they will be killed back there.So lets think about this for a moment before you all get so happy to see Wally go.
Ozzy rules!!
Ozzy rules!!
Al13
Don´t mess with Clint
i think jay williams and bowens and another 3rd guy, maybe grigsby who knows could produce the same amount of sacks that wally gave us, don´t know about their run stopping abilities but i think we still have enough talent to overcome wally´s departure and get some picks to upgrade our offense :)
ckparrothead
Premium Member
True. The idea is if Ogun goes, our D declines, but his leaving may assure us a better O which makes up for the overall transaction Danny.
Anyway a lot of people are thinking too much in the box about the whole trading Ogun deal. Getting him to agree to a trade is not so much him "foregoing his ability to negotiate a better deal with other teams" as it would be adding another team to the fray for Ogun to negotiate with for the best situation possible.
As it is I doubt more than two teams even begin earnest negotiations with Ogun. By us facilitating the whole thing with a trade, if we add a 3rd team to the discussions, he and his agent will THANK us for it.
Anyway a lot of people are thinking too much in the box about the whole trading Ogun deal. Getting him to agree to a trade is not so much him "foregoing his ability to negotiate a better deal with other teams" as it would be adding another team to the fray for Ogun to negotiate with for the best situation possible.
As it is I doubt more than two teams even begin earnest negotiations with Ogun. By us facilitating the whole thing with a trade, if we add a 3rd team to the discussions, he and his agent will THANK us for it.
Bowl_Bound
Practice Squad
UNDERSTOOD!!! Perhaps we should all pop a pill or take the stick out of the proverbial a$$ about language. I guess I meant a virtual or simulated trade situation. Ex. TENDER wally for a 1st with Houston, get the pick and trade it back to them for Henson and their second. Which would SIMULATE...oh I hate to say it ......... the TRADE for Wally
. Things were slow in the middle of the day on friday and I thought it was in interesting CONCEPT. I did not want to get into a linguistic debate:mad:
Bowl_Bound
Practice Squad
Lots of responses that say I implied a straight up
trade:confused: . I said Wally for Henson and THEIR second
rounder. I would also consider the option of using wally to
jump 10- spots perhaps with a conditional .
Oh and please can we stop with the evaluation of posts and
language.
Not everyone who is interested in the team has the time to
scrutinize every vuance of the situation and become a
virtual GM. I thought this was supposed to be fun.
trade:confused: . I said Wally for Henson and THEIR second
rounder. I would also consider the option of using wally to
jump 10- spots perhaps with a conditional .
Oh and please can we stop with the evaluation of posts and
language.
Not everyone who is interested in the team has the time to
scrutinize every vuance of the situation and become a
virtual GM. I thought this was supposed to be fun.
Phinzone
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In this case, you just gave up a pro-bowl DE, AND the #10 pick in the draft for the number 42 pick, and an unproven QB who's been out of football for 3 years...................
He is not worth more than a second rounder. IF Houston want's wally, they HAVE to give a first and a 3rd (if we tender him at the highest). If we want henson, all we have to give is a 2nd next year. WHY would we choose to fore-go the 10th pick in this years draft to save our 2nd rounder next year (I know, you didn't say that, but in essence, that's what your deal comes out as)? it makes absolutely no-sense.
Let wally test the market, if he gets a bite with ANYONE, take the 2 picks, and don't look back. Offer our 2nd rounder for next year for Henson..if that's a no-go, take Rivers in the draft, use our 2nd first for a WR or OL, and shoot away with our 2 4ths.