hoops scoops...potential #19 pick lb ryan shazier tale of the tape... | Page 5 | FinHeaven - Miami Dolphins Forums

hoops scoops...potential #19 pick lb ryan shazier tale of the tape...

Awsi Dooger said:
First of all, Shazier is a South Florida kid. He's from Ft. Lauderdale. All the local schools wanted him badly. He committed to Florida before Meyer resigned due to health reasons. Then he detoured to Ohio State. It's ridiculous to dismiss Shazier's production since it's majority from the Big Ten. The power rating gap between the typical Big Ten team and SEC team is never more than a point or two. Too many happy adjusting fans want to pretend it's a different species.

This type of thing seems to show up every year. Two similarly rated players magnetize split camp allegiance. Fans of each side tend to overstate their guy while nitpicking the other.

I tend to prefer Shazier although I'm worried about him with Mitchell here instead of Soliai. An upfield gap splitting dynamo like Shazier would have been perfect if we still had Soliai clogging the middle and occupying two defenders. A guy like Mitchell is trying to shoot the same gaps, and the opponent isn't going to worry about him enough to assign two blockers.

Ohio State has a handful of guys who perpetually make big plays. If you watch their games it's a monopoly every week, the same few guys flashing on offense and defense. That's fine until you run into a rugged no-nonsense team like Michigan State, which isn't going to care about the occasional big play. They pound and grind every play, good enough to wear out blue collar Stanford as well as splashy Ohio State.

In our case, I think it's about time we tried the glitzy big play approach. We've paddled water for a decade with athletes who don't stand out in this league. Besides, I tend to agree with j-off-her-doll that Shazier's overall instincts are improving. Today I finally received Nolan Nawrocki's Draft Preview book. He devotes a section to the same idea: "Still developing eyes and instincts -- will diagnose and trigger more quickly down the road."

I wouldn't mind Mosley. Young player, not yet 22. He's a clear step above anyone we've had. But he's not exactly a wide body himself. Shazier does resemble a safety these days. Keep in mind he's only three years out of high school so he'll logically fill out.

Shazier and Kouandijo are third year juniors. That's natural upside. Imagine if the same guys had redshirted in college and were entering their fourth year in the program as a redshirt junior. That's where Zack Martin was two years ago. No kidding they won't be fully polished. I have to laugh when players like Martin are praised for great technique at this stage while every fault of Kouandjio or Shazier is spotlighted. Martin is more than 2.5 years older than Kouandjio.
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Ha ha so your boy you bought a draft bible from nawrocki pretty much agrees with me that he's a post snap player right now...this evaluation isn't about what he is as a lb three years from now although assuming he is gonna morph into this presnap read and dx lb is nothing but a projection at this point and frankly as likely as it is unlikely if not more unlikely that it would develop at the pro level but more about what he is right now...that's why it's called tale of the tape...

And what he is right now is more reactionary player than instinctual one...

And who knows what ktown is talking about with this add 15 more lbs stuff...I guess he's gonna go from a 225 lb collegian to a 252 lb NFL lb...hell why stop there let's project him a 4.4 flat and 265 while we are at it...:lol:if he said that kind of stuff in a staff meeting they'd be cleaning out his cubicle before the day was over...how the hell can I take any of that serious
 
roy_miami said:
If ktownfinfan hates Mosley then Mosley will probably be the best player in the entire draft.
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:lol: I'll stack my predraft opinions of players against yours any day of the week. Do a little research before talking smack.
 
hooshoops said:
Ha ha so your boy you bought a draft bible from nawrocki pretty much agrees with me that he's a post snap player right now...this evaluation isn't about what he is as a lb three years from now although assuming he is gonna morph into this presnap read and dx lb is nothing but a projection at this point and frankly as likely as it is unlikely if not more unlikely that it would develop at the pro level but more about what he is right now...that's why it's called tale of the tape...

And what he is right now is more reactionary player than instinctual one...

And who knows what ktown is talking about with this add 15 more lbs stuff...I guess he's gonna go from a 225 lb collegian to a 252 lb NFL lb...hell why stop there let's project him a 4.4 flat and 265 while we are at it...:lol:if he said that kind of stuff in a staff meeting they'd be cleaning out his cubicle before the day was over...how the hell can I take any of that serious
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Not sure where you are getting 265 but 225 + 15 is 240 not 252. He is listed at 237 now as a kid coming out of college. You gonna tell me he won't add at least 5lbs once he gets with a professional staff?? Come on, even with your twisted way of looking at things you can't say you believe that. NFL.com draft profile has Shazier at 237. Mosley is listed at 234.
 
KTOWNFINFAN said:
Not sure where you are getting 265 but 225 + 15 is 240 not 252. He is listed at 237 now as a kid coming out of college. You gonna tell me he won't add at least 5lbs once he gets with a professional staff?? Come on, even with your twisted way of looking at things you can't say you believe that. NFL.com draft profile has Shazier at 237. Mosley is listed at 234.
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You said 15 more lbs when he already added 12 to his playing weight...anyways ktown don't bite off more than you can chew...you don't want to do this with me...

In fact you said easily add 10 to 15 more lbs...
 
ConvenientTruth said:
HE is a great athlete, but not a great player...I have never seen anyone develop "instincts" you either have them or not....Someone will pick him up and he will make a spectacular play from time to time, but will end up being more of a liability who finds himself out of position more often then not.
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To be fair, players do not develop athleticism either. They are not all of sudden going to become a freakish athlete on Sundays.

I actually think players can develop instincts through experience and coaching. As an example, Ryan Tannehill's instincts have improved immensely over the last two years.
 
Ryan Shazier is going to be an excellent player. Someone made the point already, but when you have a freak athlete, who's production meets that freak athleticism , you have quite the player on your hands.

Draft Shazier.
 
Hayden Fox said:
Shazier, Mosley, Fuller, James, Moses and ASJ are the last names I am down to at 19. Not a news flash...

I do think Dennis takes a less than spectacular package and bails out of the first round.
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Agreed with those names for the phins.. If no trade down happens and Martin/Mosley are off the board, I think ASJ is the surprise pick. I'd be okay with it too.
 
Shocker that Ktown didn't respond to my post. Just shocking.
 
ConvenientTruth said:
HE is a great athlete, but not a great player...I have never seen anyone develop "instincts" you either have them or not....Someone will pick him up and he will make a spectacular play from time to time, but will end up being more of a liability who finds himself out of position more often then not.
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Have fun trying to find a LB from the last 10 years that had a more productive season than Shazier in 2013.
 
Arizona's GM doesn't see size as an issue with Shazier and makes some points that I've been making for months:

"Honestly, I think inside or out," Keim said Thursday when asked what position Shazier will likely play in the NFL. "He has a skill set where he can be in on sub packages and third downs and play off the edge. He has a natural rush ability or play inside. His production speaks for itself, 143 tackles and six sacks. It's amazing."

. . .

"There's been some talk about him being a little undersized, but you see he was 6-foot-1, 238 at the combine," said Keim. "Patrick Willis when he came out was 6-foot-1 and 242. So really, the differences in size are very minimal. He's bigger than the other kid in San Francisco, [NaVorro] Bowman. Size is not an issue with Ryan Shazier."
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http://arizonasports.com/40/1728829/TACKLING-CRITICS
 
Top 20 pick worthy athlete top 50 pick worthy playmaker day 3 lb...if he came here he'd play lb...the actual lb play is just not good enough at this stage...you can pimp all that college production all you want...it means squat to me when it comes to actual lb play...the actual lb play leaves a lot to be desired
 
hooshoops said:
Top 20 pick worthy athlete top 50 pick worthy playmaker day 3 lb...if he came here he'd play lb...the actual lb play is just not good enough at this stage...you can pimp all that college production all you want...it means squat to me when it comes to actual lb play...the actual lb play leaves a lot to be desired
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I'll agree to disagree on that. Draft will be here soon enough - and then the season. I'll be surprised if Shazier is even there at 19.
 
Works for me...let someone else take the athlete and hope it learns lb at the nfl level...not a chance I'm taking...

On to my next potential target prospect scoops...
 
hooshoops said:
Works for me...let someone else take the athlete and hope it learns lb at the nfl level...not a chance I'm taking...

On to my next potential target prospect scoops...
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Not to tell you what to do, but I'd be really interested to see how you feel about potential WR options at 19. I see exactly what you're seeing with Shazier by the way. A lot of people are confusing his freakish recovery ability with having instincts. His instinctual deficiency is being masked by his athletic ability. He chooses the wrong gaps a lot and struggles to get off blockers. I don't think Shazier will do well at the mike position given his inability to deal with blockers. I LOVE him at the will where he's able to use his freakish athleticism more, but that's only if we have someone back there that can lead the defense. I wouldn't be surprised if the Cowboys take Shazier with their pick since they have Sean Lee already.
 
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