hoops scoops...potential lb draft pick denzel perryman tale of the tape... | FinHeaven - Miami Dolphins Forums

hoops scoops...potential lb draft pick denzel perryman tale of the tape...

hoops

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this begins my draft evaluation process with a series i started last year called tale of the tape and will run thru in more detail and depth prospect wise this 2015 draft process...for the last 2 years i've been saying how much this team needs a true mike lb fit...i make no bones that is the biggest need in this defense as it stands...i think this season kinda played out to show it as well...the need for a read and diag run defender is paramount at the mike and ideally a every down athlete although miami does have sub package options to work with...so is denzell perryman that fit and if so what is his value...as always i do not grade draft prospects relative to the current class value wise i grade them relative to what i think i should expect from a round grade prospect in any class...this is also all tape evaluation...miami has plenty of outside lb options in house my focus at the position is purely mike...i hope you enjoy this and get something from it and i will not be wasting any time on qbs in it cause we have a boss in the making already :lol: with that let's begin...

the first answer i need is is this prospect in fact a mike or ilb fit??? well yes denzell perryman is a mike lb all the way...it's obvious what his best fit at the next level is gonna be...if it wasnt i would have cut the tape off after i figured it out...

so now that that's established what does the tape say...

the first thing that stands out is the athlete...very average...hips look average as does the change of direction not necessarily straight linish but doesn't open his hips and change direction on a dime either...pretty average athlete by nfl lb terms...6 ft 242 lbs listed i can believe it...that 242 allows for some added pop on contact and also when engaged by lineman he doesnt get run over he handles himself relatively well...has some shock on contact and provides some heavy hitting on plays when he can get there...there's some presnap recognition and diagnosis going on here and he has a feel for the inside running game...best work looks to be between the tackles to me...seems to not get to the perimeter of the field all that well although his read and diag helps with some of the off tackle stuff...still i think the athlete limits his effectiveness

strengths i see are inside run game read and diag he has a knack for filling properly and for taking on lead blockers and some pop on contact...shoots gaps relatively well as a result can make some tackles in the backfield...gets caught up in traffic more than he should considering his solid not great read and diag skills...instincts are not top notch this isnt a luke kuechly in that department...late at times and as a result gets caught up and held up on plays he should get to...once he sees it though he fires to the ball and packs a punch it's just a matter of will he get there or not...

effective blitzer stop start and close is pretty good to the backfield...hard hitter...tackles relatively well pretty good form drives thru with the hips and wraps up pretty well...misses some tackles in the hole he should make when clean i think that's about the hip athlete and not being able to redirect all that well to short area lateral quickness...if he was a better athlete he'd make more splash plays...misses tackles in space he needs to finish on...

effort to the ball is there he's on his huff and looks like all out in pursuit to the ball especially wide he just doesnt have the foot speed to get to things way out on the perimeter unless it gets held up or has to redirect or he starts early...this is a concern for sure...the athlete to the perimeter of the field looks like a 2 down lb and that's before we get into the coverage aspects of play...

i sure hope you like zone coverage cause the canes tape is riddled with it...i wonder if all that zone i see is about hiding the mike lb in coverage and the athlete...i will say this his awareness in the passing game is flat not there...i didnt see one ounce of route recognition or awareness his zone work which is probably 95 plus percent of the tape i saw says pitch and catch opportunities for the opposition...looks like an easy 8 yards in his area...doesnt read qbs eyes well doesnt flow into passing lanes or have a feel or concept for pass receivers invading his area and is flat out of position or flat footed as a result an awful lot...i see zero ball skills here...he's a drop and rally to the ball post completion lb all the way

miami under coyle plays a lot of zone with the lbs so perryman fits that it's just dont expect this guy to go jump a slant route or read a qbs eyes and make a play on the ball cause it's just not there...the little bit of man coverage i saw he covered the flats never once carried coverage down the seam i have no doubts man coverage carrying coverage with this player is a major problem and will wear a target...qbs will throw the ball right by his ear and he will never even know it was there...i did see him come across the formation from a presnap and to the snap gap blitz look and pick up a back down the field on a wheel route man coverage that was interesting and unexpected but it would be more element of surprise type stuff then me expecting him to cover guys in man work off what i see on tape...his zone drop as a result of the athlete will probably struggle to get proper depth on deep drop coverages...

everything about this guy as a player screams 2 down mike lb to me...i just dont see how it can be valued as a every down nfl mike lb and the tape is so riddled with zone and no awareness or feel in it and the athlete to the perimeter of the field lacking that it has to be drafted as such...this does not project to be a sub package lb unless you are asking him to cover the flats or rush the passer in a blitz capacity...really what you have is a 2 down mike lb inside you pull off the field in the sub package and play a lot of under or drop zone with coverage wise when he is out there...

so what's the value for miami??? the mike lb play vs the run which is the major miami need if we can't get a every down mike with the gap fill and the read and diag he does show is probably a 2nd round value even as a 2 down guy...he can help us i don't doubt that...but when i add in the athlete in space and the fact that i pretty much have no choice but to play a zone or flats coverage with him and i think he's gonna run around a 4.8 i think it becomes more a pick 50-75 value...and if i'm miami my thoughts would be 3rd round target...provided he doesnt go out and run a very poor number at the combine...don't go out there and post a 5.0 or something and tell everyone why you stayed in school...regardless i'd like to get more with a top 50 pick...pick #14 though oh hells no...would it surprise me if he went in the 2nd round running a say 4.8 no it wouldn't...
 
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Thanks for the break down. Agree he could be a liability in pass coverage. If he last until the third I'd still jump on him.
 
If he is a liability in pass coverage then he would fit right into the scheme we run now. :lol:
 
He definitely plays faster than a 4.8 but I'm not thrilled with his size . . . then again we had the privilege of watching Zach Thomas play for us for a dozen years so why should that be a deterrent? If he indeed is being considered as a 2 down thumper, he may wear down real quick on the next level. I think he can be a 3 down guy.

He makes play, period, and honestly we definitely could use a guy like that in this linebacker group. I agree, If he is there in round 3, you'd have to jump on him or atleast consider it. Round 2, I mean I think there will be some great players at other positions of need so I'm not leaning that way.
 
From what I have read he has a round 2 grade and he is a liability in pass coverage. The LB class doesn't seem to be that strong so maybe he gets pushed up some. It's a concern how were going to fix the LB problem.

Hoops do you know anything about Mason Foster (free agent) and if he would be a fit?
 
OP: Out of curiosity which linebackers in house fill our needs? Was Koa Misi really bad or was he hampered by a combination of nagging injuries and slight hesitation with a new position? Is Dion Jordan part of our outside LB group? What about our 2nd year players in McCain and Tripp? Where do they fit in? We will probably have either Ellerbe or Wheeler return (I can't see how we dump both). Finally, I thought Jenkins showed solid improvement this past season. He has got to have a role.
 
Great stuff, Hoops. How would you compare him to Brandon Spikes? My recollection of Spikes is that he was highly decorated in college and viewed in sort of that second round range. Then, in the draft process he totally tanked as he consistently ran around 5.0. But he had the last laugh as he has been a pretty good player, first in New England and now in Buffalo. He's basically a guy that doesn't test well but plays well on the field. Granted, he has limitations, but for 2 downs he can do it. If you want a 3 down stud you're talking a high pick like Kuechly or Willis and I'm not sure that is possible now.

Another question. If we play more 3-4 looks, can he play inside linebacker in that scheme well?

I'm looking forward to what you do with the defensive tackles like Shelton, Goldman, and Davis.
 
What about the top prospect Kendricks? How does Perryman and Kendricks compare? Who would be the better fit for Miami between these 2 players.
 
From what I have read he has a round 2 grade and he is a liability in pass coverage. The LB class doesn't seem to be that strong so maybe he gets pushed up some. It's a concern how were going to fix the LB problem.

Hoops do you know anything about Mason Foster (free agent) and if he would be a fit?

the athletes i see at mike lb leave a lot to be desired if you are looking for 3 down guys but yeah i think cause the options are limited there is potential for guys to be pushed up...that and this 2015 class as a whole forget the lb class to me right now doesnt look as strong as last years overall...

but i havent gotten very far...as for mason foster i saw him at the senior bowl out of washington and had a 3rd-4th round grade when he came out i havent seen a lot of him in tampa (cause who watches tampa unless they have no choice really) but what i have seen i think he could play a 2 down mike for us and be ok at it...do i think though he's a move the needle mike not really...the read and diag and instincts are not that level
 
Great write up hoops. From the games I watched vs Duke, Nebraska and FSU that is exactly what I thought as well.

Now that Shaq Thompson has declared when can we expect the write up on him? I didn't think he would enter the draft but with so little talent at MLB its a no brainer for him to do it. Teams like the Fins who are desperate for a MLB could easily reach for this kid. Looks like I have something to do to keep me busy at work today.
 
Great write up hoops. From the games I watched vs Duke, Nebraska and FSU that is exactly what I thought as well.

Now that Shaq Thompson has declared when can we expect the write up on him? I didn't think he would enter the draft but with so little talent at MLB its a no brainer for him to do it. Teams like the Fins who are desperate for a MLB could easily reach for this kid. Looks like I have something to do to keep me busy at work today.

for what i have seen projects as a wolb or even safety...not a mike...thus havent given much thought to him...now i will be looking at him more but i'm sure it will be about a wolb pick if miami has no real choice come pick #14 and they decide to move jenkins to strong and add him to the mix there or make him depth...i think though that philbin is gonna plan for jenkins to start at wolb after his 2014 effort...

but shaq thompson the athlete is definitely top 20 pick worthy...228 lbs though is light and doesnt have the poa strength to play mike...wolb in a 43 all the way...maybe strong safety
 
miami under coyle plays a lot of zone with the lbs so perryman fits that it's just dont expect this guy to go jump a slant route or read a qbs eyes and make a play on the ball cause it's just not there...the little bit of man coverage i saw he covered the flats never once carried coverage down the seam i have no doubts man coverage carrying coverage with this player is a major problem and will wear a target...qbs will throw the ball right by his ear and he will never even know it was there...i did see him come across the formation from a presnap and to the snap gap blitz look and pick up a back down the field on a wheel route man coverage that was interesting and unexpected but it would be more element of surprise type stuff then me expecting him to cover guys in man work off what i see on tape...his zone drop as a result of the athlete will probably struggle to get proper depth on deep drop coverages...

Perryman can cover and he can read the QBs eyes pretty well. As has been the case under Al Golden and Mark D'Nofrio at Miami many of the players regress and are stagnant after their sophomore years and Perryman is no exception. I don't recall any defensive players that Golden has put in the NFL since he's been at Miami but I would expect Perryman to blow up in the NFL with proper coaching. He's a gym rat, he watches tons of film, he reads and diagnoses plays extremely well. He runs downhill and he can drop back in coverage on passing downs and read the QB. He did this with regularity as a sophomore when he was somewhere in the 230-235 range weight wise. Golden wants his defenders to put on weight, as if that's the key to having a good defense, so I don't know how much of that 242 is good weight and how much is just added weight.

Canes play a lot of zone, Golden and D'Nofrio don't like man-to-man, bump and run coverages with their CBs (even though most of the kids in Miami play that style from middle school on). There's some really bad coaching going on in Coral Gables...really bad. Anthony Chickillo is another guy who looked better as a freshman than he does now leaving as a senior...another guy that I think added too much weight and lost some of his explosiveness.

Here is Perryman's Sophomore highlight film:
[video=youtube;ybd_CKJAef4]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ybd_CKJAef4[/video]
 
Denzels workout numbers from this past fall at UM:

Denzel Perryman: 4.71 40 (4.65 best), 4.51 20, 33 reps of 225, 605 squat, 342 power clean, 435 bench press, 31 vertical

Keep in mind this is the same set of sessions where Philip Dorsett supposedly ran a 4.21 40, so I'd view the times with a little bit of skepticism. Maybe add a tenth to Perryman's 4.71 40 yd dash. They didn't list his 3 cone time, but he did not crack UM's top 17 performers in the drill which means he had to be slower than a 7.10 sec 3-cone.
 
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