How did we get this Offensive line? Here's How

[HoneyB]

I wanted to take a closer look at the O line in the Philbin/Ireland regime, to figure out why we have this line, and how good/bad was it supposed to be. I just don't remember on paper our 2013 line grading out that bad.

Here's the 2011 O-line Philbin wanted to convert his zone blocking scheme:

LT Jake Long
LG Richie Incognito
C Mike Pouncey
RG Vernon Carey
RT Marc Columbo, Will Yeatman



We cut some people, and after 2012 free agency and draft, we added LT Jonathan Martin and signed Guard Artis Hicks (experienced in Zone blocking) to a one year deal. So the new 2012 roster was like this:

LT Jake Long (power blocker, 1st rounder)
LG Richie Incognito (power blocker, 3rd rounder), Nate Garner (7th rounder)
Mike Pouncey (1[SUP]st[/SUP] rounder)
RG John Jerry (power blocker, 3rd rounder), Artis Hicks (zone blocker, udfa)
RT Jonathan Martin (2[SUP]ND[/SUP] rounder)

That's not a lot of change for a roster that's supposed to be transformed to a zone blocking scheme, but I suppose Martin was a start. Artis Hicks ended up on IR and released, and in December, Jake Long ended up on IR. So looking ahead to 2013, Ireland had to start planning on what to do with Long. At this time he would be aware that Brandon Albert was in his final year, and would be available. Scott Pioli considered it a buyers market for LT's, between FA and draft. Here's how the free agent search unfolded in 2013:

January/February/Early March:

• LT Jake Long: Ireland made an offer in Jan, and again in Feb, around 7 mil. Jake wanted 10. The market got hot and insiders upped their estimated worth from 7 to 9.
• LT Brandon Albert: Chiefs assigned 1 yr franchise tag for 9.83 mil, but didn't need him since they had the #1 overall pick to use on a tackle. Albert wants to start at that number in the open market.
• RT Eric Winston: Winston unexpectedly becomes available. He's a top 10, zone-blocking RT, expert at run blocking, and a perfect fit for Philbin's scheme. But has come off somewhat of a sub-par year in pass blocking and is 30 yrs of age. Dolphins jump on it, and immediately meet with Winston. Interest from several teams.
• LT Bryant McKinnie: Armando Salgero claims that McKinnie is not a Philbin type player, because of character and work ethic concerns. Also has struggled with weight, but remains a top LT. There is little interest until much later for McKinnie.

Later in March/Free Agency:

• LT Jake Long (Signed with Rams): Dolphins are "mounting a charge" for Long, but cannot come to agreement with money. Long shows up at Dolphins facility on March 16th, but the brass is in Arizona at the owners meeting. Where, there is chatter over the Dolphins possibly trading for Brandon Albert. March 18th, Long signed with the Rams for 8.5 mil per year. (Irleland offered at least 8 mil).
• LT Brandon Albert: Albert actively being shopped. Dolphins, Saints and Chargers interested.
• RT Eric Winston: PBP says Winston is a good fit and cheaper option than Sebastian Vollmer or Andre Smith. Winston says he has ties in Miami and wants to play here, but wants a long term deal for 3-4 mil with guaranteed money. Winston leaves Miami with no deal. Chargers still say door is open for deal.

Early April, Pre-draft:

• RT Tyson Clabo: Clabo becomes available on April 14th due to cap. Miami does not show any public interest. Clabo has never played in a zone blocking scheme and is not a good fit.
• LT Brandon Albert: April 18th, Dolphins are given permission to negotiate with Albert, and compete with Cardinals. April 25th, Albert agrees to terms financially (at Albert's price), but Dolphins cannot close the deal with Chiefs in terms of trade, as they want a high 2nd round pick, not lower 2nd or 3rd. Ireland not willing to give up the pick.
• RT Eric Winston: Dolphins still interested but want to wait until after draft.

So, no deal is completed before the draft. It doesn't seem the Albert trade will happen, although both sides say to see what happens during the draft. Clabo is not a good fit. No move on Winston. There is not much interest in Bryant McKinnie. Long is gone. The pre-draft roster looks like this:

LT Jonathan Martin
LG Richie Incognito, Nate Garner
C Mike Pouncey
RG John Jerry
RT Will Yeatman



Drafted:
OT Dallas Thomas, 3rd round. Mike Mayock says he plays LT and RT, but doesn't have great feet so projects him as a guard.

Post-draft, April:

• LT Brandon Albert (retained by Chiefs): Chiefs draft Eric Fisher, Dolphins pass on Lane Johnson. The door is still open for a trade for a 2014 pick, but doesn't happen. Chiefs end up keeping him.
• RT Eric Winston: Dolphins maintain steady dialogue with Winston. April 30th, they worked out Winston. At this point, beat writers are projecting Jonathan Martin as LT and Winston or another veteran tackle on the right.
• RT Tyson Clabo: Dolphins show interest in Clabo.
• LT Bryant McKinnie: April 29th, it is announced that McKinnie is scheduled to visit Miami and will take a physical. Ravens still want to retain him and the Chargers are interested.

May:

• LT Bryant McKinnie (resigned by Ravens): May 2nd Ravens re-signed McKinnie.
• RT Eric Winston: Dolphins decided not to sign him. Winston eventually signs with Cardinals in July.
• RT Tyson Clabo: Dolphins sign Clabo on May 5th to one year deal, with 3.5 in guaranteed money. Per Rotoworld, Clabo grades out as the 5th best RT in 2012 per PFF, but has only been a power blocker.

So this is our new roster after the draft:

LT Jonathan Martin
LG Richie Incognito, Nate Garner
C Mike Pouncey
RG John Jerry
RT Tyson Clabo

So we see that on paper, this is not a bad roster. Individually, they grade out fairly well. But we know that Clabo is a bad fit, and Martin is a ticking time bomb. Incognito and Jerry are really power blockers, also. Why not at least sign McKinnie? Did Philbin have reservations, due to what Armando called his character and work ethic? (and mouth).

If Albert or McKinnie were signed, or we drafted a LT, then Martin would have stayed on the right, away from Incognito, and maybe there wouldn't be a personal problem, or a professional one. Also, Clabo wouldn't have failed to learn the scheme fast enough because he simply wouldn't be on the roster.



In October, the Ravens announced they would trade McKinnie, who they benched for a short time, because they aquired LT Eugene Monroe. On October 21st, Ireland snatched Bryant McKinnie up, weight issues and all. They benched Clabo, over the objections of Jim Turner.

And the new roster became...

LT Bryant McKinnie
LG Richie Incognito, Nate Garner
C Mike Pouncey
RG John Jerry
RT Jonathan Martin


October 31, 2013 Martin quits the team. The roster then became:

LT Bryant McKinnie
LG Nate Garner, Sam Brenner
C Mike Pouncey
RG John Jerry
RT Tyson Clabo


So the conclusion I came to is that this was all very preventable.

 

[J. David Wannyheimer]

Couple things that you're leaving out here, IMO:

1. Bryant McKinnie has a knee injury and weight issues, and even though he was a good pass protector, it was well known that his run blocking had gone to total ****.
2. John Jerry and Jon Martin didn't really 'grade out well individually' in that line. Martin was a below average player who had a pretty glaring flaw (upper body strength) that he was working on, so there was hope for optimism there. Jerry... yeah.

 

[HoneyB]

Couple things that you're leaving out here, IMO:

1. Bryant McKinnie has a knee injury and weight issues, and even though he was a good pass protector, it was well known that his run blocking had gone to total ****.
2. John Jerry and Jon Martin didn't really 'grade out well individually' in that line. Martin was a below average player who had a pretty glaring flaw (upper body strength) that he was working on, so there was hope for optimism there. Jerry... yeah.

McKinnie has issues, and that's why the market was slow for him initially. But for for teams who needed a LT, he's more than capable. That's why the Ravens jumped back in at the last minute and resigned him. That's why the Chargers were also interested. We should have signed Albert at LT, and had Winston at RT, or left Martin at RT and drafted a rookie.

Martin did not grade out below average at RT, where he spent the majority of his time. It was a question mark as to whether he could rise to the occasion and handle LT, and only time would tell. The grades (individually) for the 2013 line, post-draft, was not below average.

 

[futurescout]

I'm not someone who takes everything they say to heart but they are good for purposes like this.. Just as a comparison, here are Miami's OL grades for 2011 2012 2013 by Pro Football Focus
(Tackle and Guard is each one category both left and right sides are combined)

2011
LT Jake Long #21 OT
LG Richie Incognito #35 OG
C Mike Pouncey #20 C
RG Vernon Carey #40 OG
RT Marc Colombo #67 OT

2012
LT Jake Long #46 OT
LG Richie Incognito #24 OG
C Mike Pouncey #8 C
RG John Jerry #49 OG
RT Jonathan Martin #76 OT

2013
LT Bryant McKinnie #65 OT
LT Jonathan Martin #60 OT
LG Richie Incognito #24 OG
C Mike Pouncey #13 C
RG John Jerry #43 OG
RT Tyson Clabo #46 OT

 

[HoneyB]

So they don't have individual grades? Why do they lump tackle and guard together?

Also, the thing I'm trying to explore here is how we got here, and where our players came from, and how many of the players did Philbin match to his scheme and how many did not, etc.

For example, PFF gave Clabo a high grade a couple years ago, and that continued going into 2013, as the #5 rated RT. He was released for salary cap reasons, to accommodate Matt Ryan's salary. He played poorly for us because this is not his scheme. Even so, Turner defended him.

I watched some of the playoffs and I notice there's Samson Satelle...wasn't he horrible and we cut him? Everything is relative, you need the right players with the right coaches and scheme, and it depends who's next to you on the O line.

 

[HoneyB]

Here's an example of what I'm talking about, this was an old article I read going into the 2013 season from CBS fantasy sports which graded and compared the O lines and it came up with grades for our players individually, which were not horrible.

http://fantasynews.cbssports.com/fa...season-extra-grading-offensive-lines-for-2013

I think coaching and scheme and experience has a lot to do with how O lines perform. After I compiled the whole thing, I realized that is was a problem waiting to happen, because Martin was a wildcard at LT, Incognito is tough but he's not a zone blocker, Jerry is just average, and Clabo is good but not a zone blocker either and hasn't played with any of the other O lineman before. This switch to zone blocking hasn't happened, because Martin is their only pickup.

 

[futurescout]

So they don't have individual grades? Why do they lump tackle and guard together?

Also, the thing I'm trying to explore here is how we got here, and where our players came from, and how many of the players did Philbin match to his scheme and how many did not, etc.

For example, PFF gave Clabo a high grade a couple years ago, and that continued going into 2013, as the #5 rated RT. He was released for salary cap reasons, to accommodate Matt Ryan's salary. He played poorly for us because this is not his scheme. Even so, Turner defended him.

I watched some of the playoffs and I notice there's Samson Satelle...wasn't he horrible and we cut him? Everything is relative, you need the right players with the right coaches and scheme, and it depends who's next to you on the O line.

They don't lump guard and tackle together. They lump LT+RT together and LG+RG together. Clabo was #5 RT but #14 overall for both sides. They list them all as one positon just offensive tackle. In order to determine what ranking they are at their specific side you literally have to count... and with most of our OL rated in the 40-60 range that is way to much counting

 

[cdz12250]

So if we have the wrong people for the zone scheme, why run it? Why try to put square pegs in round holes? Why nor run the scheme the people we have are used to, and phase in the new scheme after we bring in people who can run it over a couple of offseasons? Am I being overly simplistic here?

Unless, of course, they decided at the end of the preseason that we were just going to go with what they knew was a very bad offensive line, forcing the scheme on the wrong personnel for it, hoping that over the course of the season the people they had would get better at zone blocking and they could bring in their stud zone-blocking-ready linemen the following offseason.

Going with what you hope will happen is not a good way to achieve success, in football or in anything else.

 

[roy_miami]

So the conclusion I came to is that this was all very preventable.

No ****...

Not just preventable but should have been foreseeable. With hindsight it was downright negligent, especially with $22million in available cap space.

 

[dlockz]

No ****...

Not just preventable but should have been foreseeable. With hindsight it was downright negligent, especially with $22million in available cap space.

Yea gotta love just carrying over cap and such. We are not in cap hell but still not wisely spending money

 

[phinfan40353]

I think it is somewhat obvious to me the GM, HC and OLC decided early in the process that the Oline could be addressed in house in order to comply with the bigger picture of player acquisitions and drafting. They stood firm on their offer to Long. They sniffed on Winston and McKinnie but didn't budge. They only drafted Thomas as depth/project. It seemed they initially felt they only needed to address a position on the line if they lost someone. But for the most part were happy with the overall personnel they had.

Trading for McKinnie after having a free chance to sign him with no compensation and now being back in the market for Albert when they could have traded for him last year seems they knew they had issues but didn't want to pay to fix them when they had the chance.

I'm beginning to think they hoped to keep Long and bring in Albert next year to solidify both tackles with Thomas as the swing. They must have also liked McKinnie for a short term fix. The troubling thing is they seemingly knew they had issues because of all the attention they gave to the T positions in Free Agency.

I also cannot believe they paid draft choices to save face and acquire McKinnie if he's not part of a multi-year plan. Again, this plan appears to have been thought of when he was originally a free agent.

I guess the bigger driving force in all of the offseason blueprint for the line seems to have come down to one simple underlying design: "Do it cheap". All of the complications and undoing of the line during the year made them knee jerk and trade for a guy they felt comfortable with when they looked at him. But their inability to identify pure design flaws in their plans made them overpay when they truly needed him.

Someone's huberous made them feel comfortable about a ticking time bomb that we had the opportunity and resources to address properly but did nothing about instead.

 

[HoneyB]

So if we have the wrong people for the zone scheme, why run it? Why try to put square pegs in round holes? Why nor run the scheme the people we have are used to, and phase in the new scheme after we bring in people who can run it over a couple of offseasons? Am I being overly simplistic here?

Unless, of course, they decided at the end of the preseason that we were just going to go with what they knew was a very bad offensive line, forcing the scheme on the wrong personnel for it, hoping that over the course of the season the people they had would get better at zone blocking and they could bring in their stud zone-blocking-ready linemen the following offseason.

Going with what you hope will happen is not a good way to achieve success, in football or in anything else.

No, I don't think you're being simplistic, I think you switch or you don't switch, you don't keep players who are power blockers and tell them to play zone, and throw a rookie on the left side and expect him to be Jake Long. That was a recipe for disaster.

The bookish, smart, quiet Martin was not a Parcells/Ireland pick, that has Joe Philbin's name all over it. Anybody can see that. But I understand Philbin wanting people who can play in his scheme, ok. So do it. Tell Ireland the O line is paramount and you need players. Instead, you throw Martin out there, first on the right side which is not his fit, then on the left which he is basically starting over at. And he's the only new guy you added for the scheme. Does that make any sense?

What could Philbin and Sherman have done? They could have run the old scheme, like you said.

Ireland and Philbin both dropped the ball. Ireland didn't get the Albert deal done, and he put Clabo in a scheme he didn't fit in. But at the same time, Ireland had his finger on the Albert trigger and didn't want to give up that extra draft pick. Money wasn't the issue, the money was agreed upon. If Philbin clearly told him, without reservation, that he wanted to give Martin time to develop a little, and we needed a veteran LT to replace Long, there's no way Ireland doesn't close the deal. Instead, he was shopping like someone who liked a new car but didn't really need one.

If those two people can't work together and be on the same page, then fire them both.

Instead, we know they'll both stay.

 

[HoneyB]

I think it is somewhat obvious to me the GM, HC and OLC decided early in the process that the Oline could be addressed in house. They only drafted Thomas as depth/project. It seemed they initially felt they only needed to address a position on the line if they lost someone. But for the most part were happy with the overall personnel they had.

That's the conclusion I'm coming to. They were satisfied. Coaches give feedback to Ireland, tells him what they need, Ireland goes out and gets it. Ireland's not going to get what no one is asking for. Martin could have worked out, but needed to develop. Philbin threw him on an island at LT and made him sink or swim. Sherman made them run that scheme which didn't fit most of the players. Game after game, it wasn't working, but they said it was fine. The problems with Martin, let's face it, had to also be about the lack of success for the O line, not just personal issues. When your job is not going well, personal issues just get magnified.

Good organizations set up players to succeed, not fail. Good organizations have everyone working together on the same page. In this case, the wrong decisions were made. A lot was expected of this O line, when the right players were not put together in the right scheme. Then to magnify it, they had RB's who couldn't help block, no fullback, and a QB who they taught to sit in the pocket like a statue. Did you see Andrew Luck move, yesterday??

My hope is that this year this regime learns from their mistakes and moves forward with better decisions. Because Philbin is not going anywhere, and Ireland probably isn't, either.

 

[mrbunglez]

1 word in the thread title describes the line to a T. Guess which word that is.............

 

[Namor]

The term 'suckage" come to mind...that's the only word that fits.