How do you evaluate the d-line this year?

[Retnuhrace]

They've been a strange bunch this year. I'd say, for more than half of the year, they were one of the strengths of the team. The run D was solid the beginning of the year, and the pass rush had its moments (though it has been wildly inconsistent). Did the DTs just wear down? Mitchell and Odrick were quite solid for the first half of the year, but lately it seems as if they have disappeared. Wake has disappeared more often than expected as well, though we know he gets schemed for. I've noticed he's also gotten caught out of position quite a bit on running plays the 2nd half of the year, anyone else notice that? Anyone else have any observations about the line?

 

[fisi]

It is a copy-cat league, once Buffalo did it to beat us, KC followed suit and the flood gate was opened. Besides the depth was pretty shallow. Another thing, the back bone of every DL is good linebacking. Our LBs are crappy.

 

[pags77]

Definitely a combination of problems. We had D lineman that got pushed around a lot later in the season. Mitchell wore down and was routinely 5 Yards down field. Our crappy LB's were not filling gaps either which left large running lanes on our D. Wake also became a huge liability against the run by running up field with the OT, again leaving lanes off tackle. The last game against the Patriots he was handled one on one, not a whole lot of double teams in passing situations. The front 7 were out played and out schemed as the season wore on.

 

[GasPed]

Wake also became a huge liability against the run by running up field with the OT, again leaving lanes off tackle. The last game against the Patriots he was handled one on one, not a whole lot of double teams in passing situations.

Agree about Wake against the run - he is not an instinctual run defender and often guesses wrong - either collapsing inside or setting the edge too far outside and not responding quick enough when the RB cuts inside him. However, you're wrong about the double teams against the Pats - I re-watched and on passing situations he was routinely doubled/chipped and occasionally tripled. My guess would be 30/60/10 = single/double/triple percentages. However, when he was single-blocked he didn't get to Brady near as quick as I would like (although the play-action froze him a couple times). Overall, to my eyes, he's starting to look (dare I say it) old. Too bad.

What is a mystery to me though is how our interior line went from active and aggressive to undersized and bullied in the space of one week. :confused:

 

[joeharley666]

Here's my evaluation.....THEY SUCK! Seriously, not much to evaluate. I guess no one in the coaching staff feels that size does matter. I for one knew we were making a mistake when they let Solai walk. The guy was a beast, he wasn't gonna chase you down anytime soon, but he was a stuffer. These guys we have are too undersized. Yes, they are quick but they lack the power. Wake is 33 and he's done. When Wake was dominant the last three years it made Vernon better. Now he's on the decline and its exposing Vernon. Olivier is a nice player but he's never gonna be premier.
I don't know what we have in T Fede but it seems a lot of people here like him, or they just pretend they do. Tell me, Fede lovers, what's so great about? I'm not against Fede I just know nothing about him. This undersized and aging line we have exposes us as really needing a lot more than people think we need. DL, LB and safeties, that's a lot of needs in one offseason when you have to throw in TE, WR, and 3 fifths of the OL and backup QB and kicker. We need another two years before we prove anything in this league

 

[hoops]

when teams finally went base against us your undersized dts got exposed as well as your lbs...last year teams worked out of the Nickle to get solia off the field this year once they figured out our base mismatches was where the money was we were cooked...play action vs our base 3 lb looks pitch and catch vs competent qbs...Miami tried to get by with 2 lbs and a box safety but base and downhill looks took us out of that and your undersized dts meant to play primarily Nickle got exposed...

If solia was here I doubt you would have seen so much base personnel success...also the lack of instincts and athlete but instincts mainly at mike lb stuck out like a sore thumb...too much post snap reactionary lb play and taking the bait vs misdirection

 

[AJDUHEJETKILLER]

this is one of the bigger issues we have on our team. We are too undersized with our front four to go up against above avg olines, let alone top tier olines. and I agree Joe Harley- Cam is way on the wrong side of the ledger.

 

[NBP81]

They were very unpredictable to say the least, just like my ex GF.... Although she sucked more at the begining and then **** wore off as opposed to our D-line who seems to suck more as time goes on...

 

[Awsi Dooger]

It was somewhat remarkable we hid our weaknesses as long as we did. The signs were right there as early as the Kansas City game. Mitchell started freelancing sideways and being escorted out of the play while the others looked too small and too vulnerable.

Basically it's an upfield bully defense. They can still thrive if we have the lead and the opponent is forced to throw with a limited quarterback. That could show up in either or both of the remaining games.

I warned beginning two seasons ago that it was Happy Adjusting nonsense to believe that Wake's age wasn't a legitimate concern in the near future. Too many Bar Stoolers bought into the garbage that we could subtract (pick a number) due to inactivity.

Starks' decline was surprising to me. He just turned 31 a couple of days ago. Wake will be 33 next month. Normally the bigger guys carry their late prime longer than the ones dependent on speed.

This is a personnel issue, not a coaching issue. Our talent level is overstated on defense. With this group we need a very favorable schedule deep in the season...basically no physical offenses and no premier quarterbacks.

 

[joeharley666]

It was somewhat remarkable we hid our weaknesses as long as we did. The signs were right there as early as the Kansas City game. Mitchell started freelancing sideways and being escorted out of the play while the others looked too small and too vulnerable.

Basically it's an upfield bully defense. They can still thrive if we have the lead and the opponent is forced to throw with a limited quarterback. That could show up in either or both of the remaining games.

I warned beginning two seasons ago that it was Happy Adjusting nonsense to believe that Wake's age wasn't a legitimate concern in the near future. Too many Bar Stoolers bought into the garbage that we could subtract (pick a number) due to inactivity.

Starks' decline was surprising to me. He just turned 31 a couple of days ago. Wake will be 33 next month. Normally the bigger guys carry their late prime longer than the ones dependent on speed.

This is a personnel issue, not a coaching issue. Our talent level is overstated on defense. With this group we need a very favorable schedule deep in the season...basically no physical offenses and no premier quarterbacks.

Agreed Awsi, I hate Bellichik the person but I love Bellichik the personel guy and we need to adopt his style. No loyalty, oh you're getting old? I'm shipping you out for a draft pick, THANKS AND GOODBYE! I know the homers won't like it but it starts with Wake, he's gotta go

 

[Hayden Fox]

The D-line needs a wider body to be available against running teams, but the run defense is not as bad as people make it. They stunk vs. the Broncos and 1st half vs the Jets. The second half vs. the Jets they tightened up. They good until long runs against the Ravens at the end of the game (I do think they quit which was an issue). They were solid last week with a bunch of backup LB's...though I will keep saying Kelvin Sheppard fills well against the run.

I do not think the run D is as bad as its appeared. One or two players missing their assignments or there are missed tackles.

Let's see how they finish.

 

[Danny]

I was watching some video on the NFL network the other night and they were showing how the LBs were not staying home failing to fill the gaps. It clearly showed that it wasn't the coaches. The players were put on position to make plays but moved themselves out of the play. The dline has been push around and the LBs are not helping so it's a combination of things. In the end they have been a weakness, not a sthrengh.

 

[Hayden Fox]

Sacks come in bunches. Maybe they finish the year strong.

 

[artdnj]

Dl and lbs were crap in crunch time. This goes for wake as well, as others had mentioned, get whatever value we can for him, and it should be good, and ship him off. His production didn't get us many big stops or plays when the game was on the line.need a game changer opposite of peewee and at mlb

 

[NY8123]

It was somewhat remarkable we hid our weaknesses as long as we did. The signs were right there as early as the Kansas City game. Mitchell started freelancing sideways and being escorted out of the play while the others looked too small and too vulnerable.

Basically it's an upfield bully defense. They can still thrive if we have the lead and the opponent is forced to throw with a limited quarterback. That could show up in either or both of the remaining games.

I warned beginning two seasons ago that it was Happy Adjusting nonsense to believe that Wake's age wasn't a legitimate concern in the near future. Too many Bar Stoolers bought into the garbage that we could subtract (pick a number) due to inactivity.

Starks' decline was surprising to me. He just turned 31 a couple of days ago. Wake will be 33 next month. Normally the bigger guys carry their late prime longer than the ones dependent on speed.

This is a personnel issue, not a coaching issue. Our talent level is overstated on defense. With this group we need a very favorable schedule deep in the season...basically no physical offenses and no premier quarterbacks.

Agreed Awsi, I hate Bellichik the person but I love Bellichik the personel guy and we need to adopt his style. No loyalty, oh you're getting old? I'm shipping you out for a draft pick, THANKS AND GOODBYE! I know the homers won't like it but it starts with Wake, he's gotta go

and I honestly think this is what Jeff Ireland's intent was when he drafted Jordan, I really think Ireland thought Jordan was going to make Wake expendable this season. Once the Jordan train derailed you were left with the ill-attempt to groom Wake's successor. If Jeff was still here Wake would have been on the trade block this off-season and I'll stand by that notion.

So how does that leave the D-line, Stark's decline was amazing to me, I was on board letting Big Paul go because I thought Mitchel and Starks were going to be just fine since we had Odrick to throw into the mix as well and the combo packages that could be run given the d-linemen available were bountiful. I will say the D-line is also hindered by a terrible LB corps, I'm surprised Miami masked that for over 1/2 a season.

Wheeler and Starks could be upgraded but given caps numbers and contracts the only one that can be is Starks. Wake could also be moved fairly easily so a trade isn't out of the question and people don't want to hear that but you could get some fair compensation in return in order to address other needs if you moved Wake this off-season, Wake's value is going down by the year so if you want to get something for him this is the year.