Going back to when Long was drafted and all the signings and draft picks in between...it is damn close.
How do you rebuild this team?
- Thread starter SkapePhin
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Going back to when Long was drafted and all the signings and draft picks in between...it is damn close.
Canadi-Phin
I hate everyone else in the AFC East
Try to get one of the personnel guys from GB to be our GM. Let them pick our coach, young or old don't care. Competent. Draft Luck And the best Te or guard 2&3rd rounds. As was stated earlier.
shula_guy
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None of it matters until they dump this staff. Ireland and Sporano need to go. They should not of made it past the bye week. Ross needs to put out a clear message to the rest of the NFL that we are moving on without those two clowns and we are activily looking for thier replacements. Start interviewing guys today. Take your time, make a solid well researched, educated selection and give them as much time as you can to let them start evaluating what we have, what we need and what they can put togther on the field next year. I hate to be a defeatist but this season is toast.
gofins60
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Since today is the last day for trading, I'd start by trying to trade Marshall (too many dropped passes), Wake (1 year wonder manhandled by rookies), Sean Smith, Nolan Carroll, the right side of the o-line, and anyone else who is not producing. Trade as many of them as you can for whatever 2012 draft picks you can get. Let the new GM and HC have ammunition in the next draft to get better players and possibly made trades for players from other teams. It'll take at least 2 years for a new regime to get things going in the right direction since we have so many under-producing players on the roster. After this Jets game, I'd trade Marshall for a box of footballs and a tackling dummy.
If we end up with a Top 3 pick than draft a QB. Luck, Jones, and Barkley will all do, in that order.
Sign a big time free agent Guard or Right Tackle. It doesn't matter who plays QB on our team if we don't fix that right side of the line. Cut Carey and Colombo. Draft whatever we didn't fix in free agency in the middle rounds to continue the youth movement on our line. Get a line coach who can actually coach up the line. This has been Sparano's greatest failure as a coach IMO. Year 4 and our O-Line is worse than than it was in year 1.
Try to move Brandon Marshall, Yeremiah Bell, and some of our D-Line for some extra draft picks. The new coach is going to want to build around his style so try to keep this team young. They are all expendable and hopefully we hit on these draft picks. Ireland's greatest failure has been trading away draft picks especially our early ones and not stockpiling them. Every team has their hits and misses in the draft, but the more picks you have, the better percentages you have of hitting.
I'd go away from the 3-4 defense unless we bring in a coach like Rob Ryan to be our Head Coach. Move Wake to DE, Starks to DT, and find another pass rushing DE for the other side. We cannot get enough pressure with our defense right now. Maybe having a new scheme will open things up for Wake and Starks. Plus not having Wake in coverage will be a plus.
Get a Safety in the 2nd round. I like Clemons a lot, but for whatever reason this coaching staff will not go back to him. Reshad Jones sucks and Bell should be traded IMO. We haven't had a top of line safety since Brock Marion. We could use someone like that.
Sign a big time free agent Guard or Right Tackle. It doesn't matter who plays QB on our team if we don't fix that right side of the line. Cut Carey and Colombo. Draft whatever we didn't fix in free agency in the middle rounds to continue the youth movement on our line. Get a line coach who can actually coach up the line. This has been Sparano's greatest failure as a coach IMO. Year 4 and our O-Line is worse than than it was in year 1.
Try to move Brandon Marshall, Yeremiah Bell, and some of our D-Line for some extra draft picks. The new coach is going to want to build around his style so try to keep this team young. They are all expendable and hopefully we hit on these draft picks. Ireland's greatest failure has been trading away draft picks especially our early ones and not stockpiling them. Every team has their hits and misses in the draft, but the more picks you have, the better percentages you have of hitting.
I'd go away from the 3-4 defense unless we bring in a coach like Rob Ryan to be our Head Coach. Move Wake to DE, Starks to DT, and find another pass rushing DE for the other side. We cannot get enough pressure with our defense right now. Maybe having a new scheme will open things up for Wake and Starks. Plus not having Wake in coverage will be a plus.
Get a Safety in the 2nd round. I like Clemons a lot, but for whatever reason this coaching staff will not go back to him. Reshad Jones sucks and Bell should be traded IMO. We haven't had a top of line safety since Brock Marion. We could use someone like that.
One thing about Sparano's teams, they have been praised over the last few years as being some of the toughest, well coached and well prepared teams to go against in the league. And that has been a consensus.
Talent is 80% of the issue.
We tend to overvalue our own players and if we look at it objectively we are a collection of big, slow, unathletic players who arent game breakers and dont make game changing plays.
You dont need to be well coached to make an impact play or 2 every once in a while,
shula_guy
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AlphaPhin said:
Do you feel like you see a well coached team out on the field? I don't but I do agree that we have talent issues here too. Ireland is as big of a problem as is Sporano. I just think players like Marshall, Dansby, Wake, and some others would perform up to thier expectations if they were coached better. I do not think trading the little talent away that we do have would fix anything here, in fact it would be a set back.
I agree with this to a point.
I think we need to trade some of these players on our team. Brandon Marshall is one that comes to mind. Great talent, but not worth the price tag. And I don't think coaching will fix all his mental mistakes. Cut our losses and try to get a 2nd back in return.
But our coaching staff does a HORRIBLE job of utilizing Reggie Bush. The way we have used him thus far has been a joke
If you can get value, fine, trade them as I said in a thread I made.
But thats not going to fix the immediate talent problem. Its the philosophy more than anything and the type of player that they have built the entire roster on.
The team over the next few years needs a significant influx of talent and a specific kind to keep up with the changing NFL and the elite teams of today.
Sparano needs to go due to the play scared mentallity, settling for field goals, and the overall conservative play it close to the vest philosophy. Thats so archaic and along with an evolving wide open passing league, coaches are getting away from kicking/punting in situations that they used to in favor of trying to pick up a yard for a 1st which mathematically is the better play anyway.
The good ole boy way of doing things is going away in more than just style of personnel. Thats why Sparano needs to go
But thats not going to fix the immediate talent problem. Its the philosophy more than anything and the type of player that they have built the entire roster on.
The team over the next few years needs a significant influx of talent and a specific kind to keep up with the changing NFL and the elite teams of today.
Sparano needs to go due to the play scared mentallity, settling for field goals, and the overall conservative play it close to the vest philosophy. Thats so archaic and along with an evolving wide open passing league, coaches are getting away from kicking/punting in situations that they used to in favor of trying to pick up a yard for a 1st which mathematically is the better play anyway.
The good ole boy way of doing things is going away in more than just style of personnel. Thats why Sparano needs to go
There is plenty to fix, but it's not a quick fix. Step one is realize it's not an overnight fix. It may be to get back to .500, or even a playoff berth. But if the goal is to compete for a superbowl, year in and year out... that's not a quick easy fix.
1. Top 5 pick... Get a franchise QB. Personally, I would trade 'almost' anything for Luck, but Jones and Barkley show allot of promise. As great as a Manning would be, a Rivers or Big Ben would be awesome as well. We need a QB to build around.
2. Evaluate the team.... obviously most positions need an upgrade, but again that's not going to happen over 1 off season... Sort them into Must Haves, Would Like, If Easy, Starter.
There is no need to go over every position here, but I think on Offense, Long, Pouncy are starters, the rest of the line needs upgrades. Only right tackle is a Must have. Either Carey goes back, or you draft a Tackle. At RB, they also could upgrade, but their if easy. TE is a would like, obviously a upgrade is important there, but not at an extreme price.... plus we don't know what we have in Clay. Wide Outs, I think Marshall and Bess are starters as #1 and #3 Wide outs, are there better upgrades? Sure, but ones we can get? No. I'd like to see some more speed, a 'titus young', or mike wallace type of player opposite marshall, with bess in the slot. (how did Holmes get traded for a 5th... man we should have done that)
Defense is trougher... I think another passrusher (or 2), along with saftey help are must haves, but this is a Defense that was playing well last year. I'm not ready to give up on them all yet. Obviously, if a talent is available in the draft, which could upgrade a LB, CB, or any position you take him and make the upgrade.
One problem with this team has been reaches. Taking value works, expecially after round 2. Take good value, players who maybe should have gone earlier and find steals there.
3. Fire the coach, AFTER THE SEASON. there is no reason to fire him mid season... almost never works. Let him finish up... then find someone new. Keep Nolan, 1 season removed for golden child on a team not motivated. I would go get a young motivated coach. Maybe offensive minded, keeping Nolan on Defense.
4. New GM, DON"T GIVE COACH GM POWERS! It's a tough enough job to be a coach, or a GM, don't be both. Let the young coach coach.
5. Stay to the plan, don't take shortcuts... don't pay anyone over 30 big money, don't pass on a franchise QB, unless you already have one. don't trade away first round pick. (unless it's for a franchise QB). Don't trade picks for anyone over 30. Don't trade top 3 rounds for anyone who is mediocre... (Orton)
6. Be willing to loose with a young team, young teams get better, old teams retire. (I'd rather have Misi out there than Taylor... If i'm in the superbowl... get me taylor! Trying to build a new team... Misi)
7. Trade older/ downtrending players for picks.... more the better. Picks are young players. Some hit, some miss. More hits with more picks... plus old players always leave.
8. Fix the schedule, back to early Sunday games.... white at home. Hot, sticky, hard to play in.
9. Change attitude (New Coach), at some point you have a 3rd and 1.... and you run up the middle. They know your running up the middle.... you know it, everyone knows it. Can you get 1 yard. If you can't... then your not going to a superbowl.
The biggest thing for me is to understand it's not a quick fix. We could go trade for 3 players, and get a exciting coach, be all pumped up and maybe squeak into a wildcard next year... but in 2 years we'll be right back at this point. (hence why I was so happy we didn't trade for Orton). Lets build a winner, around winning fundamental football. Run the ball, playaction, good tackling defense, pressure the QB... But it all starts with a franchise QB.
Just my opinion.... I'm a hockey coach so what do I know? No Iceing in football.
1. Top 5 pick... Get a franchise QB. Personally, I would trade 'almost' anything for Luck, but Jones and Barkley show allot of promise. As great as a Manning would be, a Rivers or Big Ben would be awesome as well. We need a QB to build around.
2. Evaluate the team.... obviously most positions need an upgrade, but again that's not going to happen over 1 off season... Sort them into Must Haves, Would Like, If Easy, Starter.
There is no need to go over every position here, but I think on Offense, Long, Pouncy are starters, the rest of the line needs upgrades. Only right tackle is a Must have. Either Carey goes back, or you draft a Tackle. At RB, they also could upgrade, but their if easy. TE is a would like, obviously a upgrade is important there, but not at an extreme price.... plus we don't know what we have in Clay. Wide Outs, I think Marshall and Bess are starters as #1 and #3 Wide outs, are there better upgrades? Sure, but ones we can get? No. I'd like to see some more speed, a 'titus young', or mike wallace type of player opposite marshall, with bess in the slot. (how did Holmes get traded for a 5th... man we should have done that)
Defense is trougher... I think another passrusher (or 2), along with saftey help are must haves, but this is a Defense that was playing well last year. I'm not ready to give up on them all yet. Obviously, if a talent is available in the draft, which could upgrade a LB, CB, or any position you take him and make the upgrade.
One problem with this team has been reaches. Taking value works, expecially after round 2. Take good value, players who maybe should have gone earlier and find steals there.
3. Fire the coach, AFTER THE SEASON. there is no reason to fire him mid season... almost never works. Let him finish up... then find someone new. Keep Nolan, 1 season removed for golden child on a team not motivated. I would go get a young motivated coach. Maybe offensive minded, keeping Nolan on Defense.
4. New GM, DON"T GIVE COACH GM POWERS! It's a tough enough job to be a coach, or a GM, don't be both. Let the young coach coach.
5. Stay to the plan, don't take shortcuts... don't pay anyone over 30 big money, don't pass on a franchise QB, unless you already have one. don't trade away first round pick. (unless it's for a franchise QB). Don't trade picks for anyone over 30. Don't trade top 3 rounds for anyone who is mediocre... (Orton)
6. Be willing to loose with a young team, young teams get better, old teams retire. (I'd rather have Misi out there than Taylor... If i'm in the superbowl... get me taylor! Trying to build a new team... Misi)
7. Trade older/ downtrending players for picks.... more the better. Picks are young players. Some hit, some miss. More hits with more picks... plus old players always leave.
8. Fix the schedule, back to early Sunday games.... white at home. Hot, sticky, hard to play in.
9. Change attitude (New Coach), at some point you have a 3rd and 1.... and you run up the middle. They know your running up the middle.... you know it, everyone knows it. Can you get 1 yard. If you can't... then your not going to a superbowl.
The biggest thing for me is to understand it's not a quick fix. We could go trade for 3 players, and get a exciting coach, be all pumped up and maybe squeak into a wildcard next year... but in 2 years we'll be right back at this point. (hence why I was so happy we didn't trade for Orton). Lets build a winner, around winning fundamental football. Run the ball, playaction, good tackling defense, pressure the QB... But it all starts with a franchise QB.
Just my opinion.... I'm a hockey coach so what do I know? No Iceing in football.