How important is the Left Tackle? (or. why we should trade Jake Long)

[tay0365]

If tagged his salary would be around 12.88 million in 2013
don't see how that's saving money against the cap next year

:confused: How can such an unimportant position cost so much...hmmm

 

[Danny]

you don't want to keep on trading your best players but you also need to think about the cost vs the reward.....if you need money to pay an elite QB then you need to do it....trading Long could be a good thing or a bad thing....depends on what you get for him and/or how much money you'd have to give him to keep him.

Ozzy rules!!

 

[tay0365]

I've made this point for years. It's not a revelation.

The left tackle position isn't even the most important position on the offensive line, much less on the offense. The center position has become more important because he's the guy making line calls and adjusting protections to keep up with the infiltration of multiple and/or "hybrid" defenses.

You don't need an elite player at left tackle to win. You need an elite quarterback to win.

All you need at left tackle is serviceable... a guy that's not a complete turnstile. A guy who doesn't give up the post leg to the inside and provide a pass rusher the shortest path to the quarterback. It's the first thing you look for when evaluating offensive tackles. If a guy is giving up the inside, shut the tape off and move on to another. He's no good.

I just talked about this in the draft forum yesterday in regards to the importance in the quality of pass protection by your interior 3 lineman. Elite quarterbacks will step up into the pocket every time to avoid the pressure given up by the tackles on the perimeter. All you need is a guy who can get into his kickslide adequately, and have some arm length to run speed rushers upfield... the quarterback who understands how to manage the pocket will step up and make this rush null and void.

However, if your interior 3 offensive lineman are allowing pressure up the middle, there is no pocket to step up into. Quarterbacks can't deal with pressure up the middle because it gets them off their landmark.

A left tackle is only worth whatever the quarterback that he's protecting is worth. Whoever the left tackle is that's protecting an elite quarterback is automatically more valuable than Joe Thomas or Jake Long protecting Chad Henne, Matt Moore, or Colt McCoy. Teams are getting more value at the left tackle position for a fraction of the price.

I've said it numerous times... Miami giving Jake Long another mega contract is a mistake.

LT is not the most important position, Center is, yet teams would have no trouble spending a top ten pick on a LT they thought to be great, and very rarely will you see a team spend even a top 20 pick on a center that could also be great.....seems the NFL GM/Coaches disagrees with you.

Ted, I know what your saying, and I do agree that with the Center being the position that calls the plays does make them very important, but if we agree that the most important position is the QB, wouldn't protecting the blindside of the very important position becomes almost as important?

 

[Pachyderm_Wave]

LT is not the most important position, Center is, yet teams would have no trouble spending a top ten pick on a LT they thought to be great, and very rarely will you see a team spend even a top 20 pick on a center that could also be great.....seems the NFL GM/Coaches disagrees with you.

Ted, I know what your saying, and I do agree that with the Center being the position that calls the plays does make them very important, but if we agree that the most important position is the QB, wouldn't protecting the blindside of the very important position becomes almost as important?

There are very few true center prospects in any draft. About 6 at the most. The top prospects at center that teams feel like are elite players go early.

You'll see a lot of great NFL offensive lines without a great left tackle. But you won't see many without a great center.

Protecting a quarterback from pressure up the middle is more critical to him being able to execute the offense as opposed to pressure off the edge. You have to form a pocket for the quarterback to operate. It's not possible if your interior 3 offensive lineman all allowing pressure up the middle.

It doesn't matter how good your left tackle if you don't have a center capable of sliding protections and getting the offensive line/backs/tight ends on the same page. Especially when it comes to identifying blitzes.

Protecting a quarterback's blind side is important... the point is you don't have to spend a billion dollars to do it. Adequate will do. Particularly if your quarterback understands how to manage the pocket. Elite quarterbacks do this. That's what makes them elite.

An elite left tackle can't make an average quarterback look elite. An elite quarterback can absolutely make an average left tackle look elite. These are both observed all across the league every year.

It's all there in the article, there's no sense in me repeating it if you either didn't read it, or just don't comprehend the point it's trying to get across.

 

[Dolphan_72]

Trade Jake for Matt Ryan. Just kidding.

In all seriousness if this team is indeed planning to rebuild it may make sense to cash in on Jake's current value. We need young playmakers and Jake's salary is high and will presumably go up when his contract expires next year.

I personally would keep Jake unless his contract demands are too high. He's the cornerstone of the O line and we need to give a young QB as much time as possible to throw the ball.

 

[DolfanDuBbZ~]

I guess we will see what Tom Brady thinks through out this up coming season. His LT who made many PB's and SB starts just retired. I guess they can draft or plug in any schmoe.

 

[Pachyderm_Wave]

I guess we will see what Tom Brady thinks through out this up coming season. His LT who made many PB's and SB starts just retired. I guess they can draft or plug in any schmoe.

That's essentially the point. Matt Light was a terrific left tackle... they got him in the 2nd round. He protected Drew Brees' blind side at Purdue.

New England will absolutely plug a guy in at left tackle and Brady won't miss a beat. He'll be a pro-bowl caliber quarterback.


You think Miami could've plugged Matt Light in at left tackle over the past decade and made Joey Harrington, Chad Henne, Ray Lucas, or Brian Griese franchise quarterbacks?

Jake Long didn't prevent Chad Pennington, Chad Henne, or Pat White from being knocked out for the season. As a matter of fact, it was Jake Long's big a** that Chad Pennington's shoulder hit to knock it out of place again.

A quarterback is no more likely to get hurt without an elite left tackle than he is with one. Effective offensive lines have 5 guys playing as a unit. 5 guys playing as a unit leads to effective quarterback play. Effective quarterback play leads to winning football.

Miami is pissing money away on Jake Long.

 

[Pachyderm_Wave]

This is a copy and paste job from a guy at another site that talks about this very issue.....

When Jason Peters got injured, the Eagles' sky started to fall in the eyes of fans. So much so that some started proposing they trade up for Matt Kalil or Riley Reiff. Obviously the Eagles have since added Demetress Bell but the theory that you need a stud at LT still persists. I don’t think that this theory has much of a foundation to stand on.

I think I should clarify: A stud like Jason Peters or Joe Thomas does not hurt your team but they’re also not something that you absolutely need.​

Greg Cossell of NFL Films talked about something similar recently.

Quote:

Think about this: the past four Super Bowl-winning left tackles were David Diehl (a former fifth-round pick at guard), Chad Clifton (second round), Jermon Bushrod (fourth round) and Max Starks (third round). The quarterbacks on those championship teams were Eli Manning, Aaron Rodgers, Drew Brees and Ben Roethlisberger, each likely on anyone’s short list of the top quarterbacks in the NFL.

Interesting, isn’t it?

The New England Patriots have gotten by with Matt Light, a second round pick. The Steelers have gotten by Max Starks. The Giants have gotten by with David Diehl. The Saints have gotten by with Jermon Bushrod. The Colts started Tony Ugoh and Charlie Johnson at the LT spot from 2007-’11 and in that time they won 49 games. And yet teams with highly drafted, great tackles like Jake Long, Joe Thomas, DBrickshaw Ferguson, Duane Brown and Jason Peters (who we traded a #1 pick for) haven’t amounted to much. It would appear that we’re placing value on the wrong spot.

Essentially, the drop-off in talent, performance and impact from the elite guys to the mid-level guys isn’t so great that it will immensely affect your team. To use a baseball idea, a left tackles’ WAR (Wins Above Replacement) is less than other positions like QB, WR, DE and CB.

Case in point, the Eagles are 3-2 over the past two seasons in games that Jason Peters missed but they’re 3-7 in games where Michael Vick couldn’t finish despite the fact that Peters is a better OT than Michael Vick is a QB. The Eagles are 0-2 without DeSean Jackson (not counting the week 17 Dallas game in 2010).

And the best real life example I can think of is the Miami Dolphins. In 2008 the Dolphins took Jake Long over Matt Ryan and Joe Flacco in the first round. Jake Long is undoubtedly a better LT than Matt Ryan or Joe Flacco are a QB but Ryan and Flacco undoubtedly have more of an impact on the win column. If the Dolphins took Matt Ryan in round one and the best available OL in round two, how different would their current situation be?

Similarly…

In 2006 the New York Jets took D’Brickshaw Ferguson and Kellen Clemens in the first two rounds. Do you think they would rather have drafted Jay Cutler in round 1 and Marcus McNeil in round 2? Ferguson is clearly better than McNeil but the talent gap between Cutler and Clemens is far greater.

In 2007 the Arizona Cardinals took Levi Brown in the top 5 because of need. They passed on Adrian Peterson, Patrick Willis, and Darrelle Revis for him. They could’ve had a stud at another spot and gotten a decent player like Tony Ugoh, Ryan Harris, Doug Free or Jermon Bushrod later. Bad value.

To add to the argument, pretend your the GM of the Minnesota Vikings this year. You’re sitting at pick #3 with your choice of Matt Kalil, Justin Blackmon and Morris Claiborne. Who do you take? A couple things to take into account:​

• -ProFootballFocus grades the offensive tackles of each team in the NFL. The left tackles on playoff teams were rated 6th (Duane Brown), 12th (Andrew Whitworth), 15th (Jermon Bushrod), 16th (Matt Light), 32nd (Joe Staley), 33rd (Jeff Backus), 51st (Chad Clifton), 52nd (Bryant McKinnie), 56th (Sam Baker), 60th (Jonathan Scott) and 64th (David Diehl). This would suggest that bad left tackle play doesn’t necessarily correlate with losses.
• -An effective and efficient passing game strongly correlates with winning. The website Cold Hard Football Facts broke it down. The team that had the higher passer rating won the game nearly 79% of the time. The team that had the higher yards per attempt mark won the game more than 71% of the time. Who helps your passing game more, Blackmon or Kalil? Looking at the playoff teams of last year would suggest that strong receiver play helps the passing game more. See: Hakeem Nicks, Victor Cruz, Mario Manningham, Wes Welker, Rob Gronkowski, Calvin Johnson, Vernon Davis, Andre Johnson, DeMaryius Thomas, Marques Colston, Jimmy Graham, Greg Jennings, Jordy Nelson, Roddy White, Julio Jones, AJ Green and Mike Wallace. It appears that having an impact pass catcher makes a big difference in the win column.
• -On the other side of the coin, if passing the ball is so important then stopping the pass must be equally important. How do you stop those impact pass catchers that I mentioned? You stop them with impact coverage players. And with each interception that your secondary gets, the oppositions chances of winning drop by 20% according to Cold Hard Football Facts. So logic would suggest that if you get a player who can take away a passing option and disrupt the passing game while also getting interceptions, he’ll have an impact on the win column. And 8 of the 12 playoff teams last year were in the top half of the league in pass defense.

Call me crazy but I’m taking the WR or CB and I’m not hesitating much.

There is value in an elite offensive tackle, just not as much as we think. So I guess my point is two-fold:
A. The Eagles will be fine without Jason Peters.
B. If I’m running a team I’m not putting a premium on the offensive tackle spot because there is value available later. I’d rather spend high picks on a quarterback, pass catchers, pass rushers and corners simply because those spots have more of an effect on wins and losses than offensive tackles.​

 

[Pachyderm_Wave]

The interesting part about this copy and paste job I provided here is he could've taken his point even further when talking about Miami. All he had to do was point towards Miami's offense the last 3 games of the season with Jake Long dealing with his durability issues and plugging in a backup guard like John Jerry at left tackle and the offense never missing a beat.

Not only that, the offense hummed even better without him. Brandon Marshall dropped several touchdown passes during this stretch.

 

[TheWalrus]

I agree wholeheartedly with Slimm on this. Valuing the left tackle so much only makes sense if you're running a conventional kind of offense with tight ends close to the formation. In other words, a situation where you know where the opponents' best pass rusher is going to be and can therefore neutralize him -- if you have the caliber of player -- with one guy. That actually has some value.

Nowadays, where even comparative slugs like Anthony Fasano are often split wide (leaving the right tackle unprotected), the left tackle is something of an irrelevancy because all the top pass rushers are adept at flipping sides. What you really need in the modern NFL is two good tackles. Not one great one.

If you have someone as awful as Marc Colombo at RT you could have Anthony Munoz at LT and he's nothing more than a Maginot Line, an impenetrable wall that's easily walked around.

 

[hoops]

yeah matt light was terrific...he used to own jason taylor...i think the kid from colorado gets first crack at the left side now...although at that height i see a lot of waste bending in his future

 

[flynryan15]

I will say it again! "Having Jake Long protect Henne, Moore,, Gerrard, Penny, Thigpen, White, Delvin, etc is like having The Navy Seals protect my trash can!"

---------- Post added at 04:28 PM ---------- Previous post was at 04:27 PM ----------

Wasn't it the first game of the season the Pats started soldier at LT and shut down our pash rush?

 

[hoops]

I agree wholeheartedly with Slimm on this. Valuing the left tackle so much only makes sense if you're running a conventional kind of offense with tight ends close to the formation. In other words, a situation where you know where the opponents' best pass rusher is going to be and can therefore neutralize him -- if you have the caliber of player -- with one guy. That actually has some value.

Nowadays, where even comparative slugs like Anthony Fasano are often split wide (leaving the right tackle unprotected), the left tackle is something of an irrelevancy because all the top pass rushers are adept at flipping sides. What you really need in the modern NFL is two good tackles. Not one great one.

If you have someone as awful as Marc Colombo at RT you could have Anthony Munoz at LT and he's nothing more than a Maginot Line, an impenetrable wall that's easily walked around.

it took me a while to come around on it when slimm was saying this even years ago but the left tackle is not the same top 3 premium must have position in the nfl it used to be...i'll take 2 solid tackles over one pro bowl one anyday

that said i don't know how long we could have gotten away with john jerry manning the left side...

 

[Pachyderm_Wave]

I will say it again! "Having Jake Long protect Henne, Moore,, Gerrard, Penny, Thigpen, White, Delvin, etc is like having The Navy Seals protect my trash can!"

---------- Post added at 04:28 PM ---------- Previous post was at 04:27 PM ----------

Wasn't it the first game of the season the Pats started soldier at LT and shut down our pash rush?

That rookie they had playing RT completely dominated Cam Wake. They'll plug that bum in and never miss a beat.

 

[hoops]

yeah solder gave wake fits...but he struggled in games after that to the point they made him the jumbo package 3rd tackle