how many impact players have Ireland/Sparano gotten us?

[2xBlown]

I'd like someone to define elite for me. Top 5 at their position? Is that elite enough?

If so, we have Long, Marshall and perhaps Wake.

How many teams have more than 3?

Ireland has not been a bad GM. He's made bad moves, but they all do. He has put together a fairly talented bunch here and I don't know if there is anyone else out there that'd be worth a complete upheaval.

 

[MD]

Perhaps before confronting, and cutting up posts, of others you should settle on a consistent side of the discussion.

Those are all my posts and are very consistent. Perhaps you should read a little closer before chipping in something you dont know what you are talking about.

 

[Pachyderm_Wave]

I didnt ask for it both ways as evidenced by the quote.

So Marshall has had one good game. WOW! This is a guy that made play after play in Denver, came here and scored 3 TDs. As for Dansby what has he accomplished? Its so easy to say that the defense plays worse without him well guess what? The defense has played horrible without Crowder. Dansby has made no significant impact on this team.

This defense goes from 'elite' to can't stop a thimble from rolling uphill if a single player the caliber of Crowder is out... or Dansby is out... or Vontae Davis is out... or Chris Clemons is out.


Which one is it?



The point is the one I've tried to get across all along... it's an overrated unit no matter what.

 

[Spesh]

I didnt ask for it both ways as evidenced by the quote.

So Marshall has had one good game. WOW! This is a guy that made play after play in Denver, came here and scored 3 TDs. As for Dansby what has he accomplished? Its so easy to say that the defense plays worse without him well guess what? The defense has played horrible without Crowder. Dansby has made no significant impact on this team.

First you say: what has Marshall done?!?!, then say: hes had 1 good game "wow"!(im assuming sarcasm).

Now your saying it is saying it is coaching. So is Marshall a good player, who was acquired by this front office, or not? Is he an elite player(and you have admitted he has shown to be in the past) or not?

The fact is, our coaching staff has good players but are so inept that they not only can't win with them, they cant even see how to use them. So again, this team has talent, that was brought in by this regime, but could have potential had more talent(so fire Ireland) and can't win with the talent available now(fire Sparano).

 

[MD]

This defense goes from elite to can't stop a thimble from rolling uphill if a single player the caliber of Crowder is out... or Dansby is out... or Chris Clemons is out.


Which one is it?



The point is the one I've tried to get across all along... it's an overrated unit no matter what.

Concur. They faced several second string QBs last year and Trent Edwards in the opener and finished 13th in points against. That is average. Thet are not a top 6 defense and it is foolish to think they are.

 

[Spesh]

Those are all my posts and are very consistent. Perhaps you should read a little closer before chipping in something you dont know what you are talking about.

I will give you Cam Wake last year but come on bro, what has Marshall accomplished here?

Who is playing at an elite level right now?Who has over the last 2 seasons? This team has no elite talent.

One minute you say Wake played elite. The next post you say "Who has(played) over the last 2 years", after clearly answering that questions the previous post. In that same post you say this team has no elite talent, then go on to say Marshall is elite.

Perhaps its mere semantics, but thats hardly consistent. Regardless, i cant keep up the guessing game. Those are your words, and ive addressed many of the inconsistent argument youve presented.

 

[WVDolphan]

Parcells and anyone he brought into the FO and coaching staff are completely clueless and should be removed. End of story.

 

[MD]

First you say: what has Marshall done?!?!, then say: hes had 1 good game "wow"!(im assuming sarcasm).

Now your saying it is saying it is coaching. So is Marshall a good player, who was acquired by this front office, or not? Is he an elite player(and you have admitted he has shown to be in the past) or not?

The fact is, our coaching staff has good players but are so inept that they not only can't win with them, they cant even see how to use them. So again, this team has talent, that was brought in by this regime, but could have potential had more talent(so fire Ireland) and can't win with the talent available now(fire Sparano).

My bad. I see your point on Marshall. Jesus I am so pissed I cant follow logic.

Marshall was near the top prior to coming to Miami now he is not. Coaching is to blame but Marshall is as well. Dropped passes, on several occassions he has committed stupid penalties, and its hard to say if he is or isnt the player with communication problems between him and Henne. I am inclined to believe him based on his lack of maturity.

 

[MD]

One minute you say Wake played elite. The next post you say "Who has(played) over the last 2 years", after clearly answering that questions the previous post. In that same post you say this team has no elite talent, then go on to say Marshall is elite.

Perhaps its mere semantics, but thats hardly consistent. Regardless, i cant keep up the guessing game. Those are your words, and ive addressed many of the inconsistent argument youve presented.

When you use the term elite it is at the top for an extended amount of time. Wake had a nice season. He has done nothing this year. He got manhandled by a rookie with no help.

 

[Spesh]

When you use the term elite it is at the top for an extended amount of time. Wake had a nice season. He has done nothing this year. He got manhandled by a rookie with no help.

Misunderstanding seems to be on semantics. Not being able to agree on the term "elite".

I could see your argument with Wake, but have to disagree with Marshall. Watched alot of Denver games and he was consistently a game breaker for years. He will make mistakes, but make up for them.

I've never argued that this front office should stay. But we shouldnt all act like they haven't done anything good. They should be shown the door for no other reason then they cant win games.

 

[Tunaphish429]

With the exception of Long, all these guys can be replaced quite easily. I cant believe you would add Carpenter and a guy who has only played in 1 NFL game

Carp was a pro bowl kicker and has been very good, he has been lack luster as of late..Thomas was drafted by these guys and looks like he can be an impact player..Thats why I said maybe..Marshall has been amazing. He had over 1000 yards last year and missed time and games. He is a great player..He is an impact player.. Wake is not easily replaceably one of the better pass rushers in the league..He is the only player that ever gets any presure when we are rushing 4...Bess is damn good player when the ball is near him he catches it. He makes plays.

 

[Danny]

I never said this team didn't have any talent....all I said was we don't have enough impact players.....layers that will take over the game and make enough big plays to win the game for us.....Long is a good player but what game have we won thanks to him?.....when was the last time anyone said " we won tjhe game thanks to our LT"? .......Wake had a very good year in 2010 and made the probowl but this year was dominated by a rookie(I know it was only one game but still).......now let me just say this......maybe we have more playmakers than I think but we don't really know cause the way they've been coached has stoped their progress?....Davis is a good corner imo but to be an impact player you better make BIG plays and how many has he made? Marshal is a good WR but to be a playmaker you need to get in the EZ......you can blame Henne everytime if it makes you feel good but one on one and he can't get open even on a simple slant and then he drops an easy TD......he doesn't seem to have a nose for the zone and yes, that was a good play to push JA into the end zone but to be alite he needs to be consisnten.....he's had chances to get 3 or 4 TD's this year but how many does he have?......look, this is all pointless cause I don't believe Sparano can get this done anymore...I used to believe he could but now I don't.

Ozzy rules!!

 

[Tunaphish429]

Long was amazing for the phins in 2009, We ran behind him a heck of alot..He helped us win games. Do you expect a player to take over every game? Marshall was amazing against the Jets last year and took over..Marshall is not targeted nearly enough in the end zone. Some of the throws Henne made to Marshall were just horrible..Bess has had his fair share of great games.

 

[Danny]

Carp was a pro bowl kicker and has been very good, he has been lack luster as of late..Thomas was drafted by these guys and looks like he can be an impact player..Thats why I said maybe..Marshall has been amazing. He had over 1000 yards last year and missed time and games. He is a great player..He is an impact player.. Wake is not easily replaceably one of the better pass rushers in the league..He is the only player that ever gets any presure when we are rushing 4...Bess is damn good player when the ball is near him he catches it. He makes plays.

I'll say that Marshal is a good WR but you can't say he made up for the TD he droped......we had to try a f/g and missed it so that costed us 7 points....there's no way he made up for that...I know he scored later but we missed on 7 points because of him....Bess will catch anything near him but how many times does he score.....play makers make big plays, not just big catches.....when I say big plays I'm talking about scoring and coming up with turnovers on defence....we have played 2 games in which the other team threw about 100 passes combined and how many INT's did we come up with? One lucky one.....so the defence have not really made any plays....how many TD's does Marshal have even tho we've trown to him more than to anyone else? that's right.....we don't have play makers or at least, the ones we have have not made many plays.

Ozzy rules!!

 

[Tunaphish429]

I'll say that Marshal is a good WR but you can't say he made up for the TD he droped......we had to try a f/g and missed it so that costed us 7 points....there's no way he made up for that...I know he scored later but we missed on 7 points because of him....Bess will catch anything near him but how many times does he score.....play makers make big plays, not just big catches.....when I say big plays I'm talking about scoring and coming up with turnovers on defence....we have played 2 games in which the other team threw about 100 passes combined and how many INT's did we come up with? One lucky one.....so the defence have not really made any plays....how many TD's does Marshal have even tho we've trown to him more than to anyone else? that's right.....we don't have play makers or at least, the ones we have have not made many plays.

Ozzy rules!!

Marshall didnt have trouble catching TD's in denver now did he..Even in mulitple schemes he was able to make big time plays.. Bess is a slot guy who can move the chains for you. Thats his role. That is impactful to say the least. If your O stays on the field the other team cant score(Generally speaking) Wake had one poor game and started to play poorly toward the end of the year..You dont know how good that rookie will end up being..Wake generally takes advantage of slower footed RT's..Wake's not stop motor is nothing to over rate. Its basically Wake verse five other guys..Sometimes more. We never get any pass rush in the quarterbacks face..Which is why I was talking about how Langford is a one trick pony.