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Hybrid Rebuilding

Tannchise

Tannchise

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a year from now, the same conversations will be made. as you peel back the layers, ownership is the issue. now you keep a coach in place, making him a lame duck as a new front office manager is hired. GM's want to be tied to the qb and coach. It's their stamp.

I'm not sure what sort of arrangement Ross has with Philbn, however, a GM having to accept the coaching staff and qb (not bashing them but putting myself in his shoes), is not an environment conducive for a GM. Has Ross said Philbin's job is safe?
 
Poor Joe.

set up like a bowlin pin. knocked down it gets to wearin thin.

RT better have a stellar year with his new OC.
 
Tannchise said:
a year from now, the same conversations will be made. as you peel back the layers, ownership is the issue. now you keep a coach in place, making him a lame duck as a new front office manager is hired. GM's want to be tied to the qb and coach. It's their stamp.

I'm not sure what sort of arrangement Ross has with Philbn, however, a GM having to accept the coaching staff and qb (not bashing them but putting myself in his shoes), is not an environment conducive for a GM. Has Ross said Philbin's job is safe?
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It's obviously not ideal. However the recent examples of GMs appointed last year in Carolina and at the Jets, both inheriting Head Coaches and both making improvement, mean that it can work if both the GM and Head Coach can work together. I was a strong advocate of Ireland/Philbin both staying or both going, but instead of potentially tossing out a good coach for the sake of better buy in, let's give it a go. We would just be following the new trend created in Carolina and at the Jets.
 
Lets see what happens in the next couple of weeks before we go for the gas pipe. It may work out. :-)
 
The rumors are that Philbin wasn't Ireland's choice. It comes down to whether you can get a competent GM that is on the same page as the coaching staff. How they got there is less relevant. League history is riddled with examples of coaches who were selected by the GM and failed.
 
This all comes down to management structure. Different types of management structures have different implications and require people with different skill sets. I am not exactly sure about what was in people's contracts last year so don't kill me for this but it seems as if Ireland didn't have authority to evaluate and fire Philbin and was strictly responsible for the roster. Somehow the Cap specialist also didn't report to him either and it seems like 3 people had Ross's ear Aponte, Ireland, and Philbin. This management structure requires an owner who knows football as the owner needs to weed through all of the bull crap being fed to him by the coach, GM, and aponte and determine who is performing and who isn't. This clearly doesn't work as can be seen by the situation we are currently in. If we decide to hire a GM who is on equal footing with the coach I believe we will be in the same situation again shortly as it puts critical decisions on Ross's plate and he does not have the skills to make those decisions.

In my opinion, we need to hire a GM who is accountable for evaluating talent, filling the roster, managing the cap, and evaluating the coaches performance. This person needs to be able to hire/fire the coach based on his view of the coaches performance. The person should also be able hire/fire the cap specialist and evaluate their performance. This person should be the single point of contact to Ross and take all of the football decisions out of his hands. This can also be accomplished by hiring a GM who is on equal footing with the coach and putting an additional layer of management on top of the GM and coach (ie a football Czar) who reports directly into Ross and makes recommendations to Ross, or hiring a GM who evaluates talent and evaluates the coaches performance and is the single point of contact to Ross. I would prefer the second situation as additional layers of management cause inefficiencies that can result in longer decisions making times which is not a good situation in the NFL....
 
ronnienchambers said:
This all comes down to management structure. Different types of management structures have different implications and require people with different skill sets. I am not exactly sure about what was in people's contracts last year so don't kill me for this but it seems as if Ireland didn't have authority to evaluate and fire Philbin and was strictly responsible for the roster. Somehow the Cap specialist also didn't report to him either and it seems like 3 people had Ross's ear Aponte, Ireland, and Philbin. This management structure requires an owner who knows football as the owner needs to weed through all of the bull crap being fed to him by the coach, GM, and aponte and determine who is performing and who isn't. This clearly doesn't work as can be seen by the situation we are currently in. If we decide to hire a GM who is on equal footing with the coach I believe we will be in the same situation again shortly as it puts critical decisions on Ross's plate and he does not have the skills to make those decisions.

In my opinion, we need to hire a GM who is accountable for evaluating talent, filling the roster, managing the cap, and evaluating the coaches performance. This person needs to be able to hire/fire the coach based on his view of the coaches performance. The person should also be able hire/fire the cap specialist and evaluate their performance. This person should be the single point of contact to Ross and take all of the football decisions out of his hands. This can also be accomplished by hiring a GM who is on equal footing with the coach and putting an additional layer of management on top of the GM and coach (ie a football Czar) who reports directly into Ross and makes recommendations to Ross, or hiring a GM who evaluates talent and evaluates the coaches performance and is the single point of contact to Ross. I would prefer the second situation as additional layers of management cause inefficiencies that can result in longer decisions making times which is not a good situation in the NFL....
Click to expand...

I agree with you completely. They need one leader in the front office that sets up everything else. Its seems like this past year they had three people trying to lead with three different agendas. That doesn't work.
 
Ryan1973 said:
I agree with you completely. They need one leader in the front office that sets up everything else. Its seems like this past year they had three people trying to lead with three different agendas. That doesn't work.
Click to expand...

Here is what is really scary, Ross is a billionaire and obviously understands the basic organizational dynamics outlined in my post. If you assume he understands the implications of different management structures and he chooses one which requires him to make football decisions, that implies he now assumes he is qualified to make football decisions. I am hoping he doesn't think he is qualified at this point as he is still an inexperienced owner. Who knows though, lets see how it plays out....
 
spiketex said:
It's obviously not ideal. However the recent examples of GMs appointed last year in Carolina and at the Jets, both inheriting Head Coaches and both making improvement, mean that it can work if both the GM and Head Coach can work together. I was a strong advocate of Ireland/Philbin both staying or both going, but instead of potentially tossing out a good coach for the sake of better buy in, let's give it a go. We would just be following the new trend created in Carolina and at the Jets.
Click to expand...

Just because it happens somewhere else doesn't mean it'll happen here.

I don't put faith in trying to copy anyone else. It hasn't worked for us.

---------- Post added at 10:00 AM ---------- Previous post was at 10:00 AM ----------

Hybrid rebuilding = bull**** rebuilding.
 
It'll work if the GM is allowed to do his job and isn't handcuffed/forced to do what Philbin or Aponte say (as people like Armando are trying to make everyone believe will happen).

Truthfully, jobs in the NFL aren't much different than everyone else job on a certain level. When you work for a company, you're hired to fill a specific role with understanding that sometimes there is some crossover to other departments. If you are hired to do a specific job than the expectation should be thats what you're going to be an expert on. I dont see why hiring a GM should be any different.

IF they hire one and he is handcuffed and for some reason Philbin is in charge...well then I would agree with all the scathing articles that have dropped the last few days and we are a mess.
 
ronnienchambers said:
This all comes down to management structure. Different types of management structures have different implications and require people with different skill sets. I am not exactly sure about what was in people's contracts last year so don't kill me for this but it seems as if Ireland didn't have authority to evaluate and fire Philbin and was strictly responsible for the roster. Somehow the Cap specialist also didn't report to him either and it seems like 3 people had Ross's ear Aponte, Ireland, and Philbin. This management structure requires an owner who knows football as the owner needs to weed through all of the bull crap being fed to him by the coach, GM, and aponte and determine who is performing and who isn't. This clearly doesn't work as can be seen by the situation we are currently in. If we decide to hire a GM who is on equal footing with the coach I believe we will be in the same situation again shortly as it puts critical decisions on Ross's plate and he does not have the skills to make those decisions.

In my opinion, we need to hire a GM who is accountable for evaluating talent, filling the roster, managing the cap, and evaluating the coaches performance. This person needs to be able to hire/fire the coach based on his view of the coaches performance. The person should also be able hire/fire the cap specialist and evaluate their performance. This person should be the single point of contact to Ross and take all of the football decisions out of his hands. This can also be accomplished by hiring a GM who is on equal footing with the coach and putting an additional layer of management on top of the GM and coach (ie a football Czar) who reports directly into Ross and makes recommendations to Ross, or hiring a GM who evaluates talent and evaluates the coaches performance and is the single point of contact to Ross. I would prefer the second situation as additional layers of management cause inefficiencies that can result in longer decisions making times which is not a good situation in the NFL....
Click to expand...

This EXACTLY what needs to be done.

I just don't see Ross making the obvious move.
 
I want a GM who'll draft the next Thurman Thomas, not one who traded up for Daniel Thomas. I want a GM who looks for starting-caliber playmakers in the early rounds, not one who prefers to trade back and pick potential playmakers in the mid-late rounds. I want a GM who drafts players for their talent on the field, not a GM who places more importance on the "perceived value" of the pick itself rather than the actual talent of the player selected.
 
ronnienchambers said:
This all comes down to management structure. Different types of management structures have different implications and require people with different skill sets. I am not exactly sure about what was in people's contracts last year so don't kill me for this but it seems as if Ireland didn't have authority to evaluate and fire Philbin and was strictly responsible for the roster. Somehow the Cap specialist also didn't report to him either and it seems like 3 people had Ross's ear Aponte, Ireland, and Philbin. This management structure requires an owner who knows football as the owner needs to weed through all of the bull crap being fed to him by the coach, GM, and aponte and determine who is performing and who isn't. This clearly doesn't work as can be seen by the situation we are currently in. If we decide to hire a GM who is on equal footing with the coach I believe we will be in the same situation again shortly as it puts critical decisions on Ross's plate and he does not have the skills to make those decisions.

In my opinion, we need to hire a GM who is accountable for evaluating talent, filling the roster, managing the cap, and evaluating the coaches performance. This person needs to be able to hire/fire the coach based on his view of the coaches performance. The person should also be able hire/fire the cap specialist and evaluate their performance. This person should be the single point of contact to Ross and take all of the football decisions out of his hands. This can also be accomplished by hiring a GM who is on equal footing with the coach and putting an additional layer of management on top of the GM and coach (ie a football Czar) who reports directly into Ross and makes recommendations to Ross, or hiring a GM who evaluates talent and evaluates the coaches performance and is the single point of contact to Ross. I would prefer the second situation as additional layers of management cause inefficiencies that can result in longer decisions making times which is not a good situation in the NFL....
Click to expand...

I agree wholeheartedly. This is the real problem. Ross knows nothing about football. I'm hoping that his success in business wasn't luck because he should know how to fix a management structure to get what he needs. I personally think he should have cleaned house and started over. Both Ireland and Philbin were responsible for our collapse this season. Ireland didn't provide enough talent and depth to key positions like OT. He also took some big swings in free agency (Ellerbe, Wheeler) and the draft (jury is still out on the Jordan pick) that didn't work out. Philbin is also responsible for the collapse. Sherman's playcalling and the design of the offense were problems 2 seasons in a row. He never figured out how to consistently get the best out of Tannehill, and Philbin allowed players that were playing below par to stay on the field.

The structure of the team needs to be one where accountability is valued. Both Ireland and Philbin failed at certain aspects of their jobs, but Ross didn't really know who to hold accountable. A good football czar hopefully will.
 
why has it been so hard to hire a good personnel guy? Mueller, Ireland, the beat goes on
 
Tannchise said:
why has it been so hard to hire a good personnel guy? Mueller, Ireland, the beat goes on
Click to expand...

I wish I knew, let's hope Ross knows the answer and makes a good hire. If he does we may finally be out of the bizzaro NFL we have been stuck in where the Dolphins are horrible and the Pats are good....
 
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