I dont see a problem with the Patriots "spy gateing" | FinHeaven - Miami Dolphins Forums

I dont see a problem with the Patriots "spy gateing"

MartinTheSNAKE

MartinTheSNAKE

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I don't understand the problem. Teams video record other teams all the time, they watch film on passed games, and watch film of other teams.


Now if im not mistaken...the big problem is the recording of the offensive signals or w.e from the sidelines...WHAT IS THE BIG DEAL?



In baseball, there are signs all the time being put out, and managers and base coaches disguise the signs all the time. So that the other team won't know what they are doing.


I don't know i havnt cared enough to get the full gist of what is happining and what is on these tapes...but if its just signs/plays and stuff like that...i dont see a problem...i would acually be surprised if they were the only team who has been doing this.


Anyways, as you can tell i dont know 100% about this situation, feel free to school me if you want.
 
I just dont like any type of cheating, it is like a little lie
 
my issue with it is that it removes the legitamacy of the sport...its not to say New England doesn't have an exceptionally talented roster, its that they are considerably aided by the knowledge these recording provide them with. It takes away whatever even match ups their may be. Obviously it would take a skilled player to put that knowledge into use in the first place, but especially in the case of playing a sub par team (such as ourselves) it gives them the opportunity to simply walk all over us because whatever aces we may have up our sleeves would have all been removed.
 
Everyone says they cheated, i just dont see that. It was a good stratagy, they did their homework.

Whats the differnce between them studying film, and sending scouts to games to strictly study the sidelines? Thats basically what they are doing, just scouting the other team.

I'm just confused how that is cheating
 
its cheating because they aren't simply studying game footage. For example while watching footage they may notice someone moves their left hand everytime they are going to run a certain route, thats doing your homework, thats how you anticipate someone.

However, when you are aware of the signals the coaching staff provides the players with. You esentially know what every play of the game will be without having to specifically anticipate anything, you just wait to be told what will happen and adjust accordingly.

In my opinion anyway there is a BIG difference between the two.
 
So i rub my tummy that means steal 2nd.


If i pull my ear rub my tummy then touch my cap...that means nothing


maybe other teams should do more to disquise their signals...like peopel do in baseball..thats all im saying, i really dont see a problem.


then again,,,even if u study the calls...sooner or later you will figure out what signs mean what...so i can see the problem
 
lol... they used technology to cheat.... what don't you understand ?

They knew what they were doing was wrong and they continued to videotape other teams signals in order to gain an unfair advantage. They Were caught and punished.


If you don't see the cheating in that, i dont know what to say to you....
 
finsfan_84 said:
I don't understand the problem. Teams video record other teams all the time, they watch film on passed games, and watch film of other teams.


Now if im not mistaken...the big problem is the recording of the offensive signals or w.e from the sidelines...WHAT IS THE BIG DEAL?
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It's not just the video recording of the games, which is illegal under NFL rules, but in the usage of that video tape. If I record your defensive and/or offensive signals and then watch that same play from the end zone camera, not only am I able to break down which signal goes to which play but also personnel used at which down and distance. Basically it makes it easier for me to breakdown your tendacies. If I have a good idea of what you like to run, when you like to run it and with which personnel you like to run it with, I know what to look for and can make adjustment accordingly.

The NFL already provides each team with game film for their usage. If I were to use that copy along with my copy, I have additional footage of games and plays to further breakdown the other team.

finsfan_84 said:
In baseball, there are signs all the time being put out, and managers and base coaches disguise the signs all the time. So that the other team won't know what they are doing.
Click to expand...
Baseball base a lot of their rules on old, and sometimes, outdated traditions but that still don't prevent teams from trying to steal signals. It's like when there is a runner on 2nd base. The pitcher and catcher automatically change signals so the runner cannot relay to the batter which pitch and or the location of that pitch. Baseball is also a game built around instantious reactions and video taping signals will be of as much benefit as it would be for football.
finstan_84 said:
I don't know i havnt cared enough to get the full gist of what is happining and what is on these tapes...but if its just signs/plays and stuff like that...i dont see a problem...i would acually be surprised if they were the only team who has been doing this.


Anyways, as you can tell i dont know 100% about this situation, feel free to school me if you want.
Click to expand...
No school like old school. Or is that skewl? :wink:
 
bro thats like saying u found the sex tape ur wife made with ur best friend and not caring. i dunno bout u but i would be heated if that **** happened.
 
At first I thought the main advantage of spy gating was that the pats could steal some signals during the game. 1) record the sideline signals 2) after the game, matchup the sideline signals with the game footage. 3) build a key of what signal = what play. 4) next game you play the same team, see if their signals still match up: if so, you now know what they are calling.

But how would they be able to, within a few seconds of play clock, do all of this? It does seem a little unlikely. It's not like Bill himself has access to real-time video cameraof the opposing sideline: all A/V equipment is strictly enforced on the sideline, and it would be near impossible to orchestrate such an operation. Maybe if the offensive coordinator in the booth gets involved somehow? Still seems tough to do, given the time constraints.

If not for this benefit, then what is the big deal? Geforce talked about studying tendencies and packages: all that can be gotten readily from the game footage directly.

Also, I kind of agree that maybe teams should change their signals more often: how often do teams trade or sign players/etc mid-season? These players can and do give away their opposing team signals. But then again, with all the complexity, maybe changing the signals mid-season only serves to confuse your own players vs. your opponent, esp. when teams believed that the rules were being followed and policed.

My verdict: if someone can prove that what the Pats did actually helped them win in a signficant way, then the punishment is deserved, because the other teams were trusting that the rules were being followed, and therefore weren't burdening their own players with what they thought were unnecessary defenses to counter the stealing. However, no one on this thread has met that burden of proof yet.
 
finsfan_84 said:
I don't understand the problem. Teams video record other teams all the time, they watch film on passed games, and watch film of other teams.


Now if im not mistaken...the big problem is the recording of the offensive signals or w.e from the sidelines...WHAT IS THE BIG DEAL?



In baseball, there are signs all the time being put out, and managers and base coaches disguise the signs all the time. So that the other team won't know what they are doing.


I don't know i havnt cared enough to get the full gist of what is happining and what is on these tapes...but if its just signs/plays and stuff like that...i dont see a problem...i would acually be surprised if they were the only team who has been doing this.


Anyways, as you can tell i dont know 100% about this situation, feel free to school me if you want.
Click to expand...


I agree with you.....All this could've been avoided if we would've just handed our playbook over to New England.....what the heck, no spygate, no evidence....

Cheaters are cheaters and in my eyes, cheaters never win.....that's why the Patriots lost the Super Bowl.
 
DolfanAdam said:
its cheating because they aren't simply studying game footage. For example while watching footage they may notice someone moves their left hand everytime they are going to run a certain route, thats doing your homework, thats how you anticipate someone.

However, when you are aware of the signals the coaching staff provides the players with. You esentially know what every play of the game will be without having to specifically anticipate anything, you just wait to be told what will happen and adjust accordingly.

In my opinion anyway there is a BIG difference between the two.
Click to expand...

I am with finsfan 84, I just dont see it. I am sure that every team tries to pickup signals before a game so that they can anticipate what the plays will be. The only reason theya are being chased is becuase they won many games, but I dont think that the video taping was the reason why.
 
It's cheating because it is illegal to videotape the other team's signals. That's the point. It's not about the Pats using their technology in a way no one else was smart enough to think about - someone was smart enough - the league office, and they decided it was cheating!

It's a clear violation of the rules. That's all.
 
The NFL have proven via the Pats being caught cheating, that you can in fact PAY for a win(s). $500,000 can get you a few wins in the NFL. Just tape signals, cheat as much as you want even after you've been directly warned, pay a fine and get to keep whatever it was that you stole from the fans.
See how easy the NFL is? Greed.......
 
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