Lilseb93
This Is My House
All these guys highlighted were brought in by trades or FA. How many impact players has Ireland drafted? Vontae is a good player, but he's not great.
I like Ireland.
- Thread starter cljh19
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All these guys highlighted were brought in by trades or FA. How many impact players has Ireland drafted? Vontae is a good player, but he's not great.
Lilseb93
This Is My House
He's not ignoring it now because he finally understands the importance of it. However, the last 5 years he's had several opportunities to get and develop a QB. He drafted a LT over Matt Ryan and then had faith Henne would become our guy. After a while it was clear he wasn't the guy, but yet he didn't get another QB in the draft. So when Henne went down last year, we had to use Matt Moore who is just a career back-up. We missed an opportunity to give a young guy experience in a lost season. It made last season a big waste of time.
We went to the playoffs in 08 because Tom Brady got hurt and Chad Pennington was the 2nd best QB in the division. We didnt have more talent on that team. Plus the Wildcat was huge.
Ireland/Parcells did fail on multiple free agents in the first couple years. But they swallowed their mistakes and cut losses fairly quick.
More recently we have been less successful on getting players to sign but we are hitting on more also.
I agree its time to start drafting playmakers. WR's, TE's, QB (again), and on defense like pass rushers, and safety. Last year we drafted a RB, FB/TE, and a speedy KR/WR.
If your gonna build a team through the draft it takes time. We have started this process before Philbin. We started inside out and by the end of last year, we looked like a legit team.
Ireland/Parcells did fail on multiple free agents in the first couple years. But they swallowed their mistakes and cut losses fairly quick.
More recently we have been less successful on getting players to sign but we are hitting on more also.
I agree its time to start drafting playmakers. WR's, TE's, QB (again), and on defense like pass rushers, and safety. Last year we drafted a RB, FB/TE, and a speedy KR/WR.
If your gonna build a team through the draft it takes time. We have started this process before Philbin. We started inside out and by the end of last year, we looked like a legit team.
Well we also have to think about how long he's actually had full control over this team, we had Parcells here making most of the decisions like the Long over Ryan draft. I'd say Ireland has only had full control for about 3 years, and the 1st year everyone thought Henne was going to develop into a good QB, but he should've been replaced last year IMO.
But our team hasn't been bad enough to get that franchise QB in the draft, thus forcing us to pick out of free agency, and this year was really the year to get a QB out of free agency and we tried extremely hard this year. Now it's finally time to get our QB in the draft, maybe Tannehill or Weeden or maybe we roll with Garrard and try to get Barkley next year?(wishful thinking)
Lilseb93
This Is My House
Now I agree that we're not as bad as people make it out to be. I think this team can compete. We have some solid pieces in place. However, this is Ireland's 5th year as the GM. There's no excuse that our QB position is between Matt Moore and David Garrard, there's no excuse our best WR right now is Brian Hartline, and there's no excuse for the O-line still having so many holes despite all the picks and money invested into it.
I love the idea of building through the draft, but it's been 5 years now. We shouldn't be rebuilding anymore. We should be a couple of pieces away.
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Ireland has made some very good moves since he has been here (Wake, Bush for example)
Unfortunately for him there has also been a lot of negatives, more so than positives, during his time. We've been a losing teams for three consecutive years and clearly some of the blame is attached to him. Although I would have preferred to have seen him go, the fact is he didn't go and won't be going anywhere (for one more season at least) so we all need to get behind him and the team.. I'm willing to support him and still think with a solid draft we could surprise one or two people.
If the fins win their first two or three games the Ireland bashers will be nowhere to been seen, such is the fickle nature of sports fans
Unfortunately for him there has also been a lot of negatives, more so than positives, during his time. We've been a losing teams for three consecutive years and clearly some of the blame is attached to him. Although I would have preferred to have seen him go, the fact is he didn't go and won't be going anywhere (for one more season at least) so we all need to get behind him and the team.. I'm willing to support him and still think with a solid draft we could surprise one or two people.
If the fins win their first two or three games the Ireland bashers will be nowhere to been seen, such is the fickle nature of sports fans
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Lilseb93
This Is My House
Don't get me wrong, I want Ireland to succeed. I don't like him, but I want him to succeed. I want this team to win. I think the Parcells thing is an excuse. He's a disciple of Parcells and he believes in the same philosophy of building the trenches first. When Parcells left, he still tried to build the trenches instead of getting play makers hence drafting Pouncey. We were bad enough to get the first pick in the 2008 draft and draft Ryan. Even then, if you want your guy, YOU DO WHATEVER IT TAKES TO GET YOUR GUY!
I agree, I think Ireland has the same philosophy and has learned from Parcells. But I still think the Long over Ryan pick was Parcells and not Ireland. I don't like Ireland right now either, but I also want him to succeed, and I'm not necessarily defending him because I know he has made quite a bit of mistakes, and players are now starting to question him and we are going to get less attraction for players to come here.
I'm kind of glad they didn't draft Mallett though, I didn't think he was going to be a great player. Now he's going to be sitting behind Brady for his career.
The players that were brought in are also a little older and didnt become game changers themselves until years into their career. Davis, Odrick, Smith, Bess(undrafted), and Clay all have time and shown flashes of impact. Davis the closest if not already there.
Hartline may not be a dominate player, but he is definately a playmaker. Makes big time catches.
Long is definately impact, yet I can agree about Ryan.
We gave Henne a chance. Time to move on. The draft is soon.
Lilseb93
This Is My House
The thing is that Ireland finally understands everything I mentioned earlier and he'll probably draft a QB and get playmakers in the draft. The problem now is that we're in a win now mode. The ticket sales are the lowest it's been in a long time. We shouldn't be rebuilding again. The fans don't want to wait another 3 years for players to develop in a new system. We need stability. Hopefully Philbin is a keeper and we can keep things on the right track.
They need to sell it to the fans that we're rebuilding the right away now.
damanref10
Little Lebowski Urban Achiever
The biggest problem I have with all this hooplah about "well we lost in FA again but we are building through the draft" philosophy. is that Ireland has shown zero ability to draft well.
Anybody can hit on 1st round draft picks. only the giant 1st round blunders are truly remembered. but its the ability to find quality impact players throughout the rounds.... something we have failed to do time and time again. We grab Patrick Turners, Pat Whites, and Clyde Gates's and everyone all of the sudden thinks this year is the year "we will draft well".
I just don't know where everyone is getting all this blind optimism from. I hope to god im wrong and we finally have a quality draft through and through... but I have zero expectations
Anybody can hit on 1st round draft picks. only the giant 1st round blunders are truly remembered. but its the ability to find quality impact players throughout the rounds.... something we have failed to do time and time again. We grab Patrick Turners, Pat Whites, and Clyde Gates's and everyone all of the sudden thinks this year is the year "we will draft well".
I just don't know where everyone is getting all this blind optimism from. I hope to god im wrong and we finally have a quality draft through and through... but I have zero expectations
Lilseb93
This Is My House
They make a couple of plays, but they are not game changing players. I'm not saying everybody needs to be in the Pro Bowl, but we lack that one leader and game changer. We don't have someone like Megatron on this team who will make an amazing catch with 3 people covering him. Bush and Wake are those type of players, but we didn't draft them.
Long is a top 5, if not the best LT in the game, but they don't win games. They help win games, but you can do without it.
I believe there is seperation during the 5 years from Ireland/Parcells into just Ireland. When it all began we really dont know.
I feel your pain about the QB position and the WR postion. Ryan would have been nice. Marshall appeared good but as much trash Hartline gets sent his way, he has made more impact plays then Marshall the their span together. I definately miss Marshall, but I wouldnt call that rebuilding.
How are we rebuilding by trading Marshall, losing Langford, and cutting Bell. Everyone agrees we needed TD's from WRs, We have depth on the Dline, and we needed a playmaker at Safety. We have a new coach...there gonna be a little change. Imagine if there was a new GM some of this potential would be gone.
Lilseb93
This Is My House
They wanted Jeff Fisher, who fits with Ireland's philosophy more, but Philbin forces him to change his philosophy. At this point, they need to sell to the fans that we're going to do it right this time. Making a big move like trading up, drafting a QB, or just getting a play maker will go a long way in making the fans more optimistic about the future. All we can do at this point is hope that Ireland hits a home run in the draft. There's no other way to sell tickets at this point.
As for Hartline, I think he's a good WR and will probably be that guy who makes the clutch catch in the SB. However, as much as I like Hartline, he's not a #1 WR type of play maker. We need one.
My biggest problem with Ireland is that his P/R skills suck. He keeps everything a secret. He needs to keep the fans better informed more or we're going to assume the worse. The fans have no clue what's going on half the time. They need to stop promising to make a splash in FA if they aren't going to. This isn't 1986. We can all communicate with each other a lot easier. We can question his moves a lot easier.
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When I joined this site years ago I was baffled at the hype toward our mediocre players. They would be mentioned in sigs, and listed in various posts, despite being ordinary or slightly above. In 7 years the names have changed but not the trend.
If you want to be considered 30% better than you really are, find a way onto the Miami Dolphins' roster.
Regarding Jeff Ireland, I don't have much respect for anyone in a position like that who disdains the media and is so inept whenever he ventures. There's no benefit whatsoever. In Miami it's particularly ridiculous and harmful considering all the hurdles, like a pathetic stadium and so much competition for the entertainment dollar.
I think those of us who remember the early days of the franchise have a decided advantage on a topic like this. The Dolphins were always a fan friendly organization that had a sense of humor toward itself. In the late '60s the team was in the midst of a dreadful year and the Dolphins spotlighted a game against Buffalo as "Victory Sunday." In other words, hey we might actually win this one, so come out to the Orange Bowl and enjoy it. The plan worked, the team won, and it garnered quite a bit of positive publicity.
When Don Shula was approached about the coaching vacancy that's the type of reputation the Dolphins had. I can only imagine a modern day Shula contacted about the Miami vacancy (or potential vacancy) with Ross and Ireland at the helm. Never mind.
When the franchise does make a move it's desperate and jeopardizes a segment of the fan base, like the brilliant Gator Day. I literally jumped off my couch as soon as Mike Dee and Nat Moore announced that brainstorm, during the preseason telecast. I posted a thread on a Canes forum on Rivals.com within minutes.
The comparisons to other franchises and bigshots who shunned the media are not valid. Parcells late in his career came to fancy an antagonist relationship with the media, almost as a substitute for on-field success. He was anything but poor with the media and used them well when he had to early in his career. Likewise, Belichick gave some terrific interviews early in his career, answering questions that hadn't even been asked to add perspective, but now after three rings he obviously enjoys the quirky hooded reputation, and quick non-answers like, "They made more plays than we did." It borders on tongue in cheek and the Patriots in this era don't need a coach to attract fans or ticket buyers. Watch Belichick a week after the Super Bowl and he's grinning and wisecracking with Jim Nantz and Nick Faldo at Pebble Beach. Put Ireland on that course and he'd be as bumbling as ever, every bit as nervous as the Philbin introductory press conference.
No different than our stadium decades from now, once Ireland is replaced the apologists will quickly look very foolish.
If you want to be considered 30% better than you really are, find a way onto the Miami Dolphins' roster.
Regarding Jeff Ireland, I don't have much respect for anyone in a position like that who disdains the media and is so inept whenever he ventures. There's no benefit whatsoever. In Miami it's particularly ridiculous and harmful considering all the hurdles, like a pathetic stadium and so much competition for the entertainment dollar.
I think those of us who remember the early days of the franchise have a decided advantage on a topic like this. The Dolphins were always a fan friendly organization that had a sense of humor toward itself. In the late '60s the team was in the midst of a dreadful year and the Dolphins spotlighted a game against Buffalo as "Victory Sunday." In other words, hey we might actually win this one, so come out to the Orange Bowl and enjoy it. The plan worked, the team won, and it garnered quite a bit of positive publicity.
When Don Shula was approached about the coaching vacancy that's the type of reputation the Dolphins had. I can only imagine a modern day Shula contacted about the Miami vacancy (or potential vacancy) with Ross and Ireland at the helm. Never mind.
When the franchise does make a move it's desperate and jeopardizes a segment of the fan base, like the brilliant Gator Day. I literally jumped off my couch as soon as Mike Dee and Nat Moore announced that brainstorm, during the preseason telecast. I posted a thread on a Canes forum on Rivals.com within minutes.
The comparisons to other franchises and bigshots who shunned the media are not valid. Parcells late in his career came to fancy an antagonist relationship with the media, almost as a substitute for on-field success. He was anything but poor with the media and used them well when he had to early in his career. Likewise, Belichick gave some terrific interviews early in his career, answering questions that hadn't even been asked to add perspective, but now after three rings he obviously enjoys the quirky hooded reputation, and quick non-answers like, "They made more plays than we did." It borders on tongue in cheek and the Patriots in this era don't need a coach to attract fans or ticket buyers. Watch Belichick a week after the Super Bowl and he's grinning and wisecracking with Jim Nantz and Nick Faldo at Pebble Beach. Put Ireland on that course and he'd be as bumbling as ever, every bit as nervous as the Philbin introductory press conference.
No different than our stadium decades from now, once Ireland is replaced the apologists will quickly look very foolish.
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