I LIKE PETE PRISCO as MUCH AS I LIKE MY WISDOM TOOTH BEING PULLED OUT!

[volk]

What homers really need to do is take off their Dolphin goggles and realize that Zach Thomas is a "scheme" player. It's not like it's a secret or anything. Prisco acknowledges he's a good player (could've went on to mention having alot of other intangibles), but the fact remains Zach Thomas is a massive liability when he doesn't have quality DT's protecting him from lineman. You know it's true, otherwise you haven't watched Fin football games during his tenure. Watch tapes of Kevin Mawae completely erradicating Zach. It's brutal to watch, but there's nothing Zach can do about it because size-wise he's a liability. Watch games from last year, Zach put up decent numbers, but half the time he was catching a player from behind as he was 5 or 6 yards down the field. Furthermore, Zach can't cover the games better TE's, again it's a size deficiency that creates the mismatch, it's unfortunate but it's the truth.

Zach's a surefire Dolphin ring-of-honor player no doubt............ It would be a stretch to see him entered into the Hall of Fame though. He's always been an overachiever - which would be the preferred word I'd use for him.

I couldn't disagree with you more. Zach lost his big men immediately last season, and was on pace to put up better numbers than he did in past seasons...were it not for injury, he could very well have led all NFL linebackers in tackles. I watched every single game last year, as I have for several years now, and Zach was making a much greater impact than JT was. Zach was also more dynamic last year, especially when Bates took over and allowed a little more creativity.

I don't know why people like to criticize his pass coverage ability, either. I've got news for you: EVERY LINEBACKER IS A LIABILITY IN THE PASSING GAME! That is why they are linebackers and not corners or safeties. Any team that can put a WR or fast TE on a linebacker will always have a mismatch...just look at NE's offense. Andy Cohen addressed this very issue last year, and thought it was funny listening to fans bash Zach's coverage skills, when other coaches around the league respect them as quite good.

From all reports, Zach has bulked up even more for this year, and Saban is reportedly very happy with him. If he sucks this year, then maybe your point will have some validity, otherwise, it sounds every bit as foolish as Prisco's drivel. I swear, if Zach made 500 tackles and 30 sacks a season some of you would still be crying about how he was too small to get it done and his performance was some fluke of the system.

 

[CrunchTime]

I couldn't disagree with you more. Zach lost his big men immediately last season, and was on pace to put up better numbers than he did in past seasons...were it not for injury, he could very well have led all NFL linebackers in tackles. I watched every single game last year, as I have for several years now, and Zach was making a much greater impact than JT was. Zach was also more dynamic last year, especially when Bates took over and allowed a little more creativity.

I don't know why people like to criticize his pass coverage ability, either. I've got news for you: EVERY LINEBACKER IS A LIABILITY IN THE PASSING GAME! That is why they are linebackers and not corners or safeties. Any team that can put a WR or fast TE on a linebacker will always have a mismatch...just look at NE's offense. Andy Cohen addressed this very issue last year, and thought it was funny listening to fans bash Zach's coverage skills, when other coaches around the league respect them as quite good.

From all reports, Zach has bulked up even more for this year, and Saban is reportedly very happy with him. If he sucks this year, then maybe your point will have some validity, otherwise, it sounds every bit as foolish as Prisco's drivel. I swear, if Zach made 500 tackles and 30 sacks a season some of you would still be crying about how he was too small to get it done and his performance was some fluke of the system.

I agree.Until he was injured he was having an all pro year and thats without the big NTs that everyone says he needs to be effective.

 

[infiltrateib]

A fun Prisco article to return to is his preview to 2002:

Tom Brady was the most overrated player in football and was going to come crashing down ("let's see Brady do it for more than a season before his coronation as =
the next great passer...For that reason, he is now considered here the most overrated player in the league")

Who else? Ricky Williams, who proceeded to grab the rushing title that year, and then Warrick Dunn ("nothing more than a third-down back").

 

[Phinz4Life]

I love Jim Rome...but I DESPISE Pete Prisco.

I ONLY read his crap when someone tells me he had yet another snide remark about my Dolphins...just so I can comment back to him pointing out the numerous mistakes he makes in most of his columns.

Prisco is an uneducated bandwagon jumper. I sometimes wonder how much football he really watches. The reason I get so wound up about his crap is that he is the LEAD football writer for a reputable website. There are at least 50 regular posters on this board who are more educated and would do a better job then Prisco....and they don't have nearly his amount of resources.

I sent him an e-mail when he called Zach overrated last year. Said he needed two giant DTs to do anything. Zgonina and Robinson sure are monsters. :D

 

[enigmatics]

I couldn't disagree with you more. Zach lost his big men immediately last season, and was on pace to put up better numbers than he did in past seasons...were it not for injury, he could very well have led all NFL linebackers in tackles. I watched every single game last year, as I have for several years now, and Zach was making a much greater impact than JT was. Zach was also more dynamic last year, especially when Bates took over and allowed a little more creativity.

............... you're concentrating on the numbers factor too much. What good does it do for Zach Thomas to accumulate massives amounts of tackles, when they're neither quality tackles nor are they game changing tackles? Look, there's no denying he's a tackling machine. But his tackling is predicated on whether he's "free" or not. Again, you proved my point about "scheme" when you said that Bates was able to maneuver him around a little bit more. This is because Zach's size is a liability. And to say ZT had more of an impact that JT is completely ridiculous. JT is the reason there are less lineman trying to smash little Zach. JT is the reason our DB's have less time to try and cover wideouts. JT has no limitations in his game at this point. However, ZT's persists .........he's not big enough to cover the games top TE's and he can't shake O-lineman.........he's simply not big enough.

I don't know why people like to criticize his pass coverage ability, either. I've got news for you: EVERY LINEBACKER IS A LIABILITY IN THE PASSING GAME! That is why they are linebackers and not corners or safeties. Any team that can put a WR or fast TE on a linebacker will always have a mismatch...just look at NE's offense. Andy Cohen addressed this very issue last year, and thought it was funny listening to fans bash Zach's coverage skills, when other coaches around the league respect them as quite good.

Nobody is taking away anything from Zach's coverage skills, in fact he's one of the most disciplined backers in the game, he's quick and knows his angles. Not to mention he studies the hell out of game films in order to be prepared. Yet, the fact AGAIN remains that his skills can be neutralized simply by the fact that guys like Tony Gonzalez and the Algae Crumpler's can bully him around, are taller than him so balls can be put in easier spots, and they're just as fast as Zach if not faster. I don't know about you, but Zach has been a liability alot of the time when his responsibility has been RB's catching the ball out of the backfield. In fact that is one thing our sound defense has never been able to cure. They've consistently been beaten by backs out of the backfield, which aren't always his responsibility depending on the coverage and the backers on the field.

From all reports, Zach has bulked up even more for this year, and Saban is reportedly very happy with him. If he sucks this year, then maybe your point will have some validity, otherwise, it sounds every bit as foolish as Prisco's drivel. I swear, if Zach made 500 tackles and 30 sacks a season some of you would still be crying about how he was too small to get it done and his performance was some fluke of the system.

Taking all the protein shakes in the world are not going to help Zach overcome his biggest liability.............and who's crying here? Are you a loon just looking to talk crap to me? I'm playing the devil's advocate asking you to look deeper into the player that is Zach Thomas and now you want to call me a cry baby? I think you oughtta look at yourself pal. You're getting offensive because I simple agree with some things Prisco says. Besides, ain't no way on earth Zach or any LB in the game ever accumulate 500 tackles and 30 sacks............. so your reasoning is absolutely ridiculous and completely devoid of any substance whatsoever.

What's really funny is you've read all the reports (or at least I hope you did since you've tried to pass yourself off as a knowledgable Dolphins fan) of Saban when he first came on and had massive concerns about our linebacking core being too small to run his D. It's no secret. Why do you think he kept Junior Seau, drafted Crowder, and signed Spragan.

I stand by my word. Zach's a great player and has found ways to overcome his size deficiency in alot of ways. However he's a massive liability if the scheme doesn't protect him and you've done nothing to disprove that fact. I'm glad you love the guy, but you're not defending him very well.

 

[enigmatics]

I agree.Until he was injured he was having an all pro year and thats without the big NTs that everyone says he needs to be effective.

He was certainly making alot of tackles. There's no doubt about that. His impact on those games? How many of his 18 tackles in a game were momentum changing, putting teams in 3rd and long, those kinds of things? I hate to use the phrase "garbage tackles," but they got to that point at times. There's a question to ponder. Again, I watched the season too, I saw him chasing down RB's and TE's all season long. He was simply not in position to be making quality tackles simply because he had to fight off lineman all year long, something in years past he really never had to be concerned with. It's common sense guys........the guy's too small to be successful in any other scheme other than one where his DT's protect him. How can you deny that?

It's a testament to Zach that he put up the numbers he did. He's an overachiever, that's what Zach does. He has that next gear that alot of other players don't have, especially when they're season is pure crap and there gonna be sitting at home come playoff time. However that doesn't smudge out the fact that he's a liability once big bodies are on him and the scheme doesn't protect him to run freely.

 

[MexDolfan]

Pete is a genious.

He was able to predict in march the previous winner of SB!!!

We as dolfans must build him a statue and place it in front of Dolphin Stadium, as a way to tell our players what mouth must be slapped and silented by winning.

 

[enigmatics]

Pete is a genious.

He was able to predict in march the previous winner of SB!!!

We as dolfans must build him a statue and place it in front of Dolphin Stadium, as a way to tell our players what mouth must be slapped and silented by winning.

Why do you guys get so friggin' upset? It's one man's opinion. Who really gives a rats azz?

 

[enigmatics]

I sent him an e-mail when he called Zach overrated last year. Said he needed two giant DTs to do anything. Zgonina and Robinson sure are monsters. :D

What's funny is most footbal prognosticators and analysts have praised Zach, but said the same thing about his limitations. It's only some of my fellow Fin fans who dispute it. I guess that's to be expected.

 

[ajcdolphin]

Prisco is a retread from NY he doesn't know any better.

 

[Dolphin North]

http://cbs.sportsline.com/nfl/story/8622837

This is his latest OVERRATED / UNDERRATED list. Some of his picks are laughable as being OVERRATED.

John Ogden- Heck, I'll take him getting beat by D.Freeney in a game. Who hasnt Freeney beaten?

Tory James / Roy Williams : Ah, yes, they are pro-bowlers for a reason.

KGB: 13 1/2 SACKS. What do you expect a SACK EVERY GAME?

Zach Thomas/ Jerome Bettis / Shaun Alexander: OVERRATED? These guys make the character of their respective teams! On top of that, were amongst the top in the leagues in numbers.

WHAT IS THIS GUY THINKING? YIKES! :eek:


Some highlights:

[font=Arial, Helvetica]Overrated: Jonathan Ogden, tackle[/font][font=Arial, Helvetica]He's still a premier player, but he isn't the player he was a few years ago. Ogden has some struggles with some speed rushers last year -- see Dwight Freeney -- and that could be a sign of the start of the erosion of his skills.

[/font]



[font=Arial, Helvetica]Overrated: Tory James, cornerback
He went to the Pro Bowl after getting eight interceptions last season, but he isn't nearly as good as his numbers would make one believe. He is decent, but not a Pro Bowl-quality corner.

Overrated: Roy Williams, safety
He makes some big hits and that earns him a lot of attention. The reality is he isn't that good in coverage -- and that shows up. He's more like a linebacker than a safety, which is why he will play strong safety this season after playing free safety a bunch in 2004. [/font]

[font=Arial, Helvetica]Overrated: Kabeer Gbaja-Biamila, defensive end
He had 13½ sacks last season, which is a nice number, but he went nine games (counting the playoff loss to the Vikings) without a sack. He gets sacks in bunches, but he isn't as consistent as his reputation.
[/font]

[font=Arial, Helvetica]Overrated: Zach Thomas, linebacker
We've said this for a long time, but here goes again: Thomas is a decent player, but not nearly as good as portrayed. Some scouts think Thomas is actually a liability when the big bodies in front of him don't protect him. The new scheme in which linebackers have to take on blocks won't help him.
[/font]

[font=Arial, Helvetica]Overrated: Jerome Bettis, running back
Bettis is a great guy and he's loved in Pittsburgh. But he isn't the threat he once was with the football. If he's starting at any point this year, it's a mistake for the Steelers. He should be a spot player now at this point in his career. [/font]





[font=Arial, Helvetica]Overrated: Shaun Alexander, running back
This one will open some eyes because he was second in the league in rushing last season. But the feeling inside the Seattle organization, from coaches and players, is that Alexander is soft. He won't get the tough yards. Plus, he's a me-first player. He is on the trading block and nobody made a move. That has to mean something, right? [/font]

[font=Arial, Helvetica]
[/font]

I like Prisco as much as I like...4e:

 

[BSQX4]

Zach is a GREAT linebacker who could easily end up in the Hall Of Fame. He's smart, he's fast and he is a tackling machine, plain and simple. Forget his size and all this overachieve bull, he is an out and out stud who is a pleasure to watch. He is excellent on the blitz, he's very good in coverage and makes big plays on a regular basis. That's my opinion so Prisco can take a freakin' hike. 54 ROCKS!!!!!

 

[PhinsTD]

Actually I agree with everything on this list.

You have to remember that overrated doesn't mean good, it means rated higher than should be.

Ogden has slipped, James isn't Pro Bowl, Thomas is overrated, Alexander is not a top-3 back as he is viewed by many.

Prisco says bad things about a team that has been rated by the experts as Super Bowl quality by the experts for years and has always said they aren't that good.

When was the last time the Phins proved him wrong?

 

[popularwar]

Tory James is overrated, he got 8 INT's this year but sucked at covering a decent receiver, Andrá Davis burned him for 99 yards. Imagine what Torry Holt could do to this guy.

 

[enigmatics]

Actually I agree with everything on this list.

You have to remember that overrated doesn't mean good, it means rated higher than should be.

Ogden has slipped, James isn't Pro Bowl, Thomas is overrated, Alexander is not a top-3 back as he is viewed by many.

Prisco says bad things about a team that has been rated by the experts as Super Bowl quality by the experts for years and has always said they aren't that good.

When was the last time the Phins proved him wrong?

Exactly.......people are reading Prisco's words and immediately jumping down the man's throat thinking he means "isn't good" .........if Prisco thought that, he'd say it. Overrated simply mean people think he's rated higher than he should be as you've stated.