I understand that we all love Phillip Rivers but... | FinHeaven - Miami Dolphins Forums

I understand that we all love Phillip Rivers but...

Quelonio

Quelonio

El rey de la Pachacha
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As painful as it may sound to say so, and considering that we do not have a second rounder, and that Rivers' foot work pretty much sucks, as does his release, so we would have to spend a lot of time teaching him how to be a good quaterback. I say wouldn't it be nice if instead of going for Rivers we just hmmmm went for Reggie Williams or Rashaun Woods, we would be helping the Offense, we would be getting wide receivers that could steal some pressure from Chambers, and maybe DT plays better as a third WR, so i would say quaterback in FA and WR in draft.

But we do all love Phillip Rivers, so maybe not.
 
Pure insanity. We HAVE a young WR, we HAVE a young TE, and RB, and now a young tackle, all with franchise player potential. Tell me, who wll throw them the ball?

Everyone sounds like if we take Rivers, we're planning for the future. Well yes we are. We are only in this situation because we did NOT plan for the future in the past. I 'm with you, it sucks that we have to take a QB high this year, as we have many other needs, but because our FO decided to neglect taking a QB high before Marino left, we are sitting here with our pants down STILL trying to find a QB to lead this team.

I'm sorry, but I can't support taking a WR. We have potential in Tolver, and Chambers, who knows what will happen with McKnight and Thompson in the long run, but we have no potential at QB. Heck, even if Sage walks on and takes this franchise this off season (which he won't) we still only have 1 QB! ONE!

I'm so frustrated with the dolphins for letting this happen. Yes, Rivers needs work, but it's work we should have been doing with another QB TWO YEARS AGO. But instead we have a gimpy MLB..way to go wanny
 
Originally posted by BuchanonForPrez
i hear brock berlin is available



:goof:
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Actually he's not.............he is a junior.

If you wanted to joke, you could have said Rick Mirer.
 
Originally posted by Graythreat
Pure insanity. We HAVE a young WR, we HAVE a young TE, and RB, and now a young tackle, all with franchise player potential. Tell me, who wll throw them the ball?

Everyone sounds like if we take Rivers, we're planning for the future. Well yes we are. We are only in this situation because we did NOT plan for the future in the past. I 'm with you, it sucks that we have to take a QB high this year, as we have many other needs, but because our FO decided to neglect taking a QB high before Marino left, we are sitting here with our pants down STILL trying to find a QB to lead this team.

I'm sorry, but I can't support taking a WR. We have potential in Tolver, and Chambers, who knows what will happen with McKnight and Thompson in the long run, but we have no potential at QB. Heck, even if Sage walks on and takes this franchise this off season (which he won't) we still only have 1 QB! ONE!

I'm so frustrated with the dolphins for letting this happen. Yes, Rivers needs work, but it's work we should have been doing with another QB TWO YEARS AGO. But instead we have a gimpy MLB..way to go wanny
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I understand everything you are saying, but you ignore his point about us not having a second rounder. We have more needs than just QB . . . especially on the offensive side of the ball. If the #20 pick is the ONLY pick we have in the first two rounds, I think it is a horrible move to take a QB. We will tie up a lot of money on someone who might not ever develop and, either way, will probably not contribute for at least two years. Even if he developed into a solid NFL QB, our defense will have declined and we might not be the contenders we are now. Planning for the future is great, but this team can win now. If we only have one pick in the first two rounds, it should be on someone a little safer and a little more ready to contribute next season.

I don't understand why you and some others seem to feel it is an absolute law of football that a team must draft a QB high and develop him. For every time that has worked for a team, there are five instances in which it completely backfired. Nobody knows whether Rivers will be great or not. But I DO know that this team lost two very close games to the Super Bowl champs. With a better offensive line and a more consistent quarterback, I don't think that happens next year. If we pick Rivers (and assuming we get no more picks), we would have to do ALL of our tweaking this offseason through FA and drafting from the third round on. I'm not sure we have the money to do that very successfully.

I believe that was the point of this thread, and I completely agree. You talk about how we have not been developing a guy over the last two years like we should have been, but a lot of other teams have been doing that. We could bring in a veteran QB for next season and still bring in a guy like Volek or Feely or whoever to learn the system over a season or two and see if they can't step in and take over. In the meantime, a couple more drafts will have gone by . . . and who knows? . . . maybe we will have been in a better situation to draft a QB. Yes, they will still have to develop as well, but at least we won't have set our team back when we have a shot at winning it all.
 
Personally, I think a 2nd round pick in 2005 for Drew Henson solves this dilemma quite nicely . . . as long as he impresses at workouts (which I think he will).

The only other solution is to get more picks. If we tender Ogunleye and he signs somewhere, then we can use the extra pick on Rivers and still be ok.
 
For every time that has worked for a team, there are five instances in which it completely backfired
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Those numbers aren't correct. Trust me, I've checked them extensively.

Anyway to use the excuse that we don't have a 2nd rounder in order to say that we can't afford to draft a QB in the first round is being gun-shy plain and simple. Its a poor excuse. A 2nd rounder likely isn't going to help us this season anymore than a 1st round QB would. That includes WRs. Chambers was a freak and so was Todd Wade. Sure we COULD get that lucky again...or much more likely, we'll get Eddie Moore'd.

Lets look at this rationally. Were we good enough to win it all this year? Not really. Do we have the talent on this team though to do it? Probably. Who are we losing? Aside from Ogunleye being a little difficult to get back its basically addition by subtraction...gettin rid of Griese and Fiedler in order to free up room, probably Ruddy who gets replaced quickly and competantly by McKinney, then replacing Todd Wade with someone who could probably pass protect a whole lot better than Todd could.

Is this stuff we could handle through free agency? I think so. In fact, even without the draft, I think we're AT LEAST as good a team as we were last year...and thats with just having Sage Rosenfels take over the starting QB gig!

Point is you're really not supposed to count on the draft to make a drastic impact on your team in their first year anyway. If you get lucky and they do, kudos. You draft a WR at pick #20 and you expect him to start and do a good job, you're dreaming. Even an OLman would struggle his first year. We can salvage acceptable QB play this season. But we can't keep doing it all patchwork for long if we ever want to see a QB that will do as much to win the game for us as anyone else on the team. You draft a kid you get the chance to mold him and shape him into the QB that you want him to be. He gets to be your franchise. You say we can't afford to spend our first round pick on a guy that won't make much of an impact in his first year, and I say if you draft a Phil Rivers at #20 he's got about as much a chance at making a big positive impact on this team's play in his first year as a WR would. Guys like Chambers, Terry Glenn, Randy Moss who all light the world on fire their rookie year...they don't just come along easily.
 
Originally posted by ckparrothead


Those numbers aren't correct. Trust me, I've checked them extensively.

Anyway to use the excuse that we don't have a 2nd rounder in order to say that we can't afford to draft a QB in the first round is being gun-shy plain and simple. Its a poor excuse. A 2nd rounder likely isn't going to help us this season anymore than a 1st round QB would. That includes WRs. Chambers was a freak and so was Todd Wade. Sure we COULD get that lucky again...or much more likely, we'll get Eddie Moore'd.

Lets look at this rationally. Were we good enough to win it all this year? Not really. Do we have the talent on this team though to do it? Probably. Who are we losing? Aside from Ogunleye being a little difficult to get back its basically addition by subtraction...gettin rid of Griese and Fiedler in order to free up room, probably Ruddy who gets replaced quickly and competantly by McKinney, then replacing Todd Wade with someone who could probably pass protect a whole lot better than Todd could.

Is this stuff we could handle through free agency? I think so. In fact, even without the draft, I think we're AT LEAST as good a team as we were last year...and thats with just having Sage Rosenfels take over the starting QB gig!

Point is you're really not supposed to count on the draft to make a drastic impact on your team in their first year anyway. If you get lucky and they do, kudos. You draft a WR at pick #20 and you expect him to start and do a good job, you're dreaming. Even an OLman would struggle his first year. We can salvage acceptable QB play this season. But we can't keep doing it all patchwork for long if we ever want to see a QB that will do as much to win the game for us as anyone else on the team. You draft a kid you get the chance to mold him and shape him into the QB that you want him to be. He gets to be your franchise. You say we can't afford to spend our first round pick on a guy that won't make much of an impact in his first year, and I say if you draft a Phil Rivers at #20 he's got about as much a chance at making a big positive impact on this team's play in his first year as a WR would. Guys like Chambers, Terry Glenn, Randy Moss who all light the world on fire their rookie year...they don't just come along easily.
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I wasn't trying to quote specific numbers, but if you have looked into it extensively, then what ARE the numbers? I'm willing to bet most of the "success" stories are guys that went in the top 10 (i.e. McNair, Vick, Manning, etc . . .). We're talking about the bottom half of the first round here.

In this draft, a WR at #20 will almost definitely have an impact next year. I'm not saying they have to have Moss or Chambers numbers. But a Woods or Clayton at #20 will have more of an impact on this team next year than a Rivers. I think you are dreaming to say otherwise. Chambers could be putting up SICK numbers if we had a decent threat on the other side of the field. Same goes for McMichael.

I'm a little more pessimistic about solving our offensive line problems. Again, I'm willing to say a Vernon Carey at #20 would contribute more than Rivers next year as well.
 
P.S. - Eddie Moore'd? Moore was a stretch in the second round, and everyone admitted that. But who did we pass on?
 
I've heard it said many times, that in order for a rookie to contribute his first year, the most important thing is, opportunity.

IMO,Rivers would have as much a chance of helping this team, as a Tom Brady had with the Pats.....Or a Marino had with the Dolphins...;)....
 
Imagine if last year or the last 2-3 years ago

We drafted a qb with one of our first picks. Say Drew Brees, or Ken Dorsey, or someone who was drafted in the later rounds that have a good chance of panning out. I'm not sure who was out there draftwise. He'd probably be had started this past year when BG flopped and even if we still ended up with the same results but he played well, we'd all be salivating over the potential next year.

See, my point is, for the last 4 yrs we've been "that close". Yet we always seem to come up short. At what point do we start building for the future and seriously try and get a franchise qb in here? Do we have to go 1-15 or 4-12 or some pathethic record for the organization and it's fans to concede that we need to start rebuilding or do we take a gamble on a potential franchise qb now and have him sit for a year and start next year.

Let's face it, our team isn't getting any younger and with each year that passess our core players i.e. our defensive unit as a whole loses a step. So what do you do?

I would make a serious run after a veteran QB that can fill our immediate needs. I would then invest one of my top picks into a qb to groom for the future (meaning next year or even the ending of this year).

My biggest pet peve with this team is when we had a stud qb, we never made a serious attempt at having a strong running game. Now that we have a stud running back we arent making a strong attempt to get a stud qb.

It's a good thing that Dave has no final say over the draft because, I'm almost positive he'd stand by JF to save face and be reluctant to draft a qb knowing that he was on a very short leash.
 
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Originally posted by Frayser
P.S. - Eddie Moore'd? Moore was a stretch in the second round, and everyone admitted that. But who did we pass on?
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Anquan Boldin, and you are ignoring the fact that we've gone your way for the past 20 years. Marino was drafted in 83 LATE first round. Now 20 years later we have yet to take a QB above the 4th round, and it shows horribly. The FA is for immediate needs, the draft is for the future, and we NEED a QB for hte future.
 
Originally posted by inFINSible
I've heard it said many times, that in order for a rookie to contribute his first year, the most important thing is, opportunity.

IMO,Rivers would have as much a chance of helping this team, as a Tom Brady had with the Pats.....Or a Marino had with the Dolphins...;)....
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This class is nowhere near as good as Marino's was, and despite being a 2-time Super Bowl MVP, I still do not think Brady is anything special. He has the best coach in the league, a good offensive line, a VERY deep list of check-downs (like Faulk), and one of the best offensive coordinators in the league. It just so happens that what he can do well (check-down, throw short for accuracy, and not turn the ball over) fits their system perfectly.

That being said . . . I have no proof Rivers couldn't come in and contribute. But it's unlikely, and I think we can all agree on that. He'll most likely sit behind a vet all year.
 
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