I understand that we all love Phillip Rivers but... | Page 2 | FinHeaven - Miami Dolphins Forums

I understand that we all love Phillip Rivers but...

2 super bowl wins and being the youngest guy to have 2 super bowl wins, plus three seasons with a QB rating of at least 85, and people still think Brady is average.

Thank you, but seriously just because of that single argument you just made, I'm not really taking you seriously anymore. Sorry man.
 
Originally posted by Graythreat


Anquan Boldin, and you are ignoring the fact that we've gone your way for the past 20 years. Marino was drafted in 83 LATE first round. Now 20 years later we have yet to take a QB above the 4th round, and it shows horribly. The FA is for immediate needs, the draft is for the future, and we NEED a QB for hte future.


Ok, it is COMPLETELY ridiculous to say that "shows horribly." What? We haven't won a Super Bowl? So I guess it takes a guy drafted in rounds 4 or higher to win one of those, right?

You answered my question on Anquan Boldin, but had nothing else to say about it. He was a 2nd rounder. Would he have not contributed this year?

I think you are also ignoring the fact that we have more future needs than QB. It was said in an earlier post . . . "our defense is not getting any younger." I'm not too excited about the idea of replacing these guys with 3rd round picks and lower in a year or two.

Look, I like Rivers. I would have nothing against seeing him in Miami. But the point of this whole thread is that if we only have one pick in the 1st and 2nd rounds, there are a lot better positions to draft than QB. I still have yet to see a convincing argument as to why that is wrong. You can talk all you want about the importance of drafting a QB high, but you're talking about ONE pick out of the first . . . what . . . 80 picks? This is a VERY talented draft. If we only have that one pick in the first two rounds, there are better options than Rivers.
 
Originally posted by ckparrothead
2 super bowl wins and being the youngest guy to have 2 super bowl wins, plus three seasons with a QB rating of at least 85, and people still think Brady is average.

Thank you, but seriously just because of that single argument you just made, I'm not really taking you seriously anymore. Sorry man.


Ok . . . it's a bit pretentious of you to apologize for not taking me seriously. What? Do you think I'm crushed? I couldn't care less. I care about the 'Phins . . . not what some random guy on the boards has to say about my opinions.

Yeah . . . wow . . . 2 Super Bowl wins. A QB rating over 85. I stand by my argument. In fact, I have a New England fan sitting in my living room right now who completely agrees with me. If Brady throws a screen pass to Kevin Faulk or Troy Brown . . . and they run for an 80 yard TD . . . Brady looks pretty good. Is he a good QB for that? The Pats strength is their coaching and their scheming . . . not their quarterback. The only reason Brady has those two MVPs is because they share the wealth on offense (i.e. no standout stars) and the coach can't win the award. When your offensive coordinator and/or coach are calling the perfect plays for what the defense is running and have you throwing safe, high percentage passes your numbers are going to look good.

I think I've made my point, and I think there are a lot of people out there that agree with me. You don't. Great. But you should seriously try to not talk down to people like that. It only makes you look bad. "Sorry man."
 
Originally posted by Frayser



Ok, it is COMPLETELY ridiculous to say that "shows horribly." What? We haven't won a Super Bowl? So I guess it takes a guy drafted in rounds 4 or higher to win one of those, right?

You answered my question on Anquan Boldin, but had nothing else to say about it. He was a 2nd rounder. Would he have not contributed this year?

I think you are also ignoring the fact that we have more future needs than QB. It was said in an earlier post . . . "our defense is not getting any younger." I'm not too excited about the idea of replacing these guys with 3rd round picks and lower in a year or two.

Look, I like Rivers. I would have nothing against seeing him in Miami. But the point of this whole thread is that if we only have one pick in the 1st and 2nd rounds, there are a lot better positions to draft than QB. I still have yet to see a convincing argument as to why that is wrong. You can talk all you want about the importance of drafting a QB high, but you're talking about ONE pick out of the first . . . what . . . 80 picks? This is a VERY talented draft. If we only have that one pick in the first two rounds, there are better options than Rivers.

You think Boldin would have been productive this year? Boy, your kidding yourself. How would Boldin have done with no running game, and Noodle-arm Jay to throw to him? It would have been a travesty, and a career wasted. Yes, I want him here, but NO he would not have flourished at Miami.

Yes, by all means, let's just "win now" and forsake the future of our franchise. Let's try to "win now" with rookies, and a defense that will be gone in 2 years. At which point, we'll have nothing to fall back on. We'll have young offensive talent that will go to waste because we'll need to train a QB in 2 years down the road for another 2 years because we didn't have the fore-sight to draft a QB high AGAIN.

I'm sorry, but Miami fans of all fans should know how rediculous it is to not look ahead. We shouldn't be in this situation, but we are. We need to fix it. Sure, we have other needs, but we have POTENTIAL at WR and OL, something we don't have at QB.

WHo do you suggest plays QB for us next year? Brian or Jay? Both will cost an arm and a leg, and are huge disappointments. Jay's a flop, everyone has to admit that, Brian has a bigger upside, but that's a LOOOONG shot. Or should we re-sign Sage and give him the keys to the mercedes? The unproven QB who couldn't even win the backup job to Jay when we had Ray Lucas.

OR we can sign a vet like Brunelle. And 2 years down the road he'll retire, leaving us without a QB...

hmmm.......looks like we need a QB doesn't it?

Like it or not, the QB is still an important postiiton on the field, arguably the most important. Our lack of QB allows the defense to stack the box. yes, i would like another #2 receiver, but the fact is, we have a great #1, a great TE, a great RB and FB, and potential at #2. The ONLY weak spot there is potential at #2, but IF we had a decent QB, a #1 recevier, #1 TE, #1 RB, and a good FB should be enough to get the job done.

Now, looking at our lack of QB, do you really think we can ask a rookie WR to walk in here, and make a difference? PUHLEASE. That's like asking a rookie HB to make a difference for a team with no OL. The FA is for NOW players. We can get our starting QB, and there are quite a few WR's with potential in it this year. But to say it would be better for our team to foresake a QB this year, after years of neglect is just proposterous.



oooh yeah, and 1 more thing. That "shows horribly" means our once dominant running game flopped this year, our great TE fell into obscurity, our #1 receiver failed to break 1,000 yards, and for the 3rd year in a row we are worse off than we were the year before. Defenses stack the box, and don't respect the pass. That's obvious, and yes it DOES show horribly.
 
Originally posted by Frayser



Ok . . . it's a bit pretentious of you to apologize for not taking me seriously. What? Do you think I'm crushed? I couldn't care less. I care about the 'Phins . . . not what some random guy on the boards has to say about my opinions.

Yeah . . . wow . . . 2 Super Bowl wins. A QB rating over 85. I stand by my argument. In fact, I have a New England fan sitting in my living room right now who completely agrees with me. If Brady throws a screen pass to Kevin Faulk or Troy Brown . . . and they run for an 80 yard TD . . . Brady looks pretty good. Is he a good QB for that? The Pats strength is their coaching and their scheming . . . not their quarterback. The only reason Brady has those two MVPs is because they share the wealth on offense (i.e. no standout stars) and the coach can't win the award. When your offensive coordinator and/or coach are calling the perfect plays for what the defense is running and have you throwing safe, high percentage passes your numbers are going to look good.

I think I've made my point, and I think there are a lot of people out there that agree with me. You don't. Great. But you should seriously try to not talk down to people like that. It only makes you look bad. "Sorry man."

oh, don't kid yourself, tom brady is a gamer. he may not fit into that 'perfect qb' mold, but the kid is a serious baller. since he's so average, what would you say to him wanting to play in miami? he has driven his team down the field in the waning seconds of two super bowls to win, and mind you that in the 2 minute drill, the qb calls his own plays. how many other qbs have done that? take the aqua and orange glasses off and give that man his credit, and tell your pat friend to appreciate what they have. if anybody deserves our full wrath of hate from the unwarranted love he recieves, it's not brady, it's pennington:lol:
 
Originally posted by Frayser



Ok . . . it's a bit pretentious of you to apologize for not taking me seriously. What? Do you think I'm crushed? I couldn't care less. I care about the 'Phins . . . not what some random guy on the boards has to say about my opinions.

Yeah . . . wow . . . 2 Super Bowl wins. A QB rating over 85. I stand by my argument. In fact, I have a New England fan sitting in my living room right now who completely agrees with me. If Brady throws a screen pass to Kevin Faulk or Troy Brown . . . and they run for an 80 yard TD . . . Brady looks pretty good. Is he a good QB for that? The Pats strength is their coaching and their scheming . . . not their quarterback. The only reason Brady has those two MVPs is because they share the wealth on offense (i.e. no standout stars) and the coach can't win the award. When your offensive coordinator and/or coach are calling the perfect plays for what the defense is running and have you throwing safe, high percentage passes your numbers are going to look good.

I think I've made my point, and I think there are a lot of people out there that agree with me. You don't. Great. But you should seriously try to not talk down to people like that. It only makes you look bad. "Sorry man."



Frayser I agree that the play calling makes him look good because I have seen plays this year that he would throw two yards an the wr would run 20. I have to admit Brady is a gamer I watched the SB among other games and he is extremely accurate. He leads the offense well. Smart qb with accuracy they got what we need.
 
Graythreat, I really don't understand the apocalyptic messages of doom. You act as if the ONLY possible way we can get a young QB is to draft Rivers in the first round. There is Henson. There are young QBs on other teams. I also never said anything about forsaking the future. In fact, I said quite the opposite. Long term, we need more than just a QB. If we only have one pick in the first two rounds, there are "franchise" guys at other positions that are safer picks and can help us much sooner.

You are kidding yourself if you think Boldin would not have an impact for us last year. Chambers, Bolding, and McMichael? Please. The fact is . . . Thompson and McKnight were not serious threats. It allowed teams to stack the box against Ricky and still cover McMichael and Chambers. I will admit that our offensive line killed us, but Boldin would have helped us a lot.

I believe I said Brady does what he needs to well. As far as him being in Miami, I think our offensive line would get him killed. He's the slowest QB in the league. You got a good look at what happens when he is under pressure in the Super Bowl. That interception was horrible and nearly cost them the game. As it stands, he has a good offensive line in New England, a great coach, and a system that caters to his strengths.
 
Originally posted by Frayser



Ok . . . it's a bit pretentious of you to apologize for not taking me seriously. What? Do you think I'm crushed? I couldn't care less. I care about the 'Phins . . . not what some random guy on the boards has to say about my opinions.

Yeah . . . wow . . . 2 Super Bowl wins. A QB rating over 85. I stand by my argument. In fact, I have a New England fan sitting in my living room right now who completely agrees with me. If Brady throws a screen pass to Kevin Faulk or Troy Brown . . . and they run for an 80 yard TD . . . Brady looks pretty good. Is he a good QB for that? The Pats strength is their coaching and their scheming . . . not their quarterback. The only reason Brady has those two MVPs is because they share the wealth on offense (i.e. no standout stars) and the coach can't win the award. When your offensive coordinator and/or coach are calling the perfect plays for what the defense is running and have you throwing safe, high percentage passes your numbers are going to look good.

I think I've made my point, and I think there are a lot of people out there that agree with me. You don't. Great. But you should seriously try to not talk down to people like that. It only makes you look bad. "Sorry man."

I've heard this argument before, only it went like this: Joe Montana throws a 5 yard slant to Jerry Rice and he runs for an 80 yard TD. Montana looks pretty good. Is he a good QB for that?...I've got a friend whose a SF fan who completly agrees with me...

That argument went pretty well. I'm sure the number of people who agree that Montana wasn't a good QB are growing every day. It's got to be well up into the double digits by now.

Oh, by the way, I wanted to add a couple of people to you're list of those who agree with you. They're these two Jets fans on that NFL Network commercial that say "Brady is not that good a quarterback" I think they come on right after the two guys who say "It's a great year to be an Arizona Cardinal"

You guys should have auditioned for that commercial. I think the posting was for "delusional NFL fans", "football fans who know very little about football" or something like that. I'm sure you guys can get the next one. Look for something like "people who don't know how to analyze QB play" I'm sure you guys will get it. Good Luck!
 
Once again, rafael beats me to the punch. ;) But lets keep things civil here. No need to insult each other (directly or otherwise).

Anyway, I was going to make the same point about Montana. He had the best coaches, the best play-caller, the best supporting cast.....he had it all. But no one talks about him being average, because he wasn't. Neither is Brady. There's a reason why Bill Walsh says Tom Brady is the closest thing to Joe Montana he's ever seen. And Bill Walsh's word carries just a little bit of weight on the subject. ;)
 
Originally posted by Frayser
Graythreat, I really don't understand the apocalyptic messages of doom. You act as if the ONLY possible way we can get a young QB is to draft Rivers in the first round. There is Henson. There are young QBs on other teams. I also never said anything about forsaking the future. In fact, I said quite the opposite. Long term, we need more than just a QB. If we only have one pick in the first two rounds, there are "franchise" guys at other positions that are safer picks and can help us much sooner.

You are kidding yourself if you think Boldin would not have an impact for us last year. Chambers, Bolding, and McMichael? Please. The fact is . . . Thompson and McKnight were not serious threats. It allowed teams to stack the box against Ricky and still cover McMichael and Chambers. I will admit that our offensive line killed us, but Boldin would have helped us a lot.

I believe I said Brady does what he needs to well. As far as him being in Miami, I think our offensive line would get him killed. He's the slowest QB in the league. You got a good look at what happens when he is under pressure in the Super Bowl. That interception was horrible and nearly cost them the game. As it stands, he has a good offensive line in New England, a great coach, and a system that caters to his strengths.

henson is a possiblity, but still a gamble. ALL picks are a gamble, I know, but he's more so. ONE good season compared to Rivers 4, he left our sport for a sport he liked better. I don't want to use a pickon a guy who could literally just walk on us, and leave us short a pick. Will it happen? Probably not, but his first love is baseball, he said so, he had one good season. I'll take Rivers over him, as he's much less of a risk.

The fact is, that our QB couldn't get the ball to our #1 receiver, #1 TE, and #1 RB, OR our pass catching FB this season. So no, I don't think Boldin would have developed here in Miami. Wanny wants players with experience, so he wouldn't have got a shot this year. How do we know Thompson is a bust? MAYBE it's the QB, rather than the receiver? But no one wants to look at that aspect. I'm not saying he's great, but he's a #2 that SURELY wasn't helped by our weak QB position.

And yes, we need more than a QB long term. BUT we need to develope that QB for at least a season. Which MEANS, we can draft QB high this year (probably a WR or OL as well), and NEXT YEAR we can snag our WR and OL in the draft. It's not rocket science, QB's take longer to develope than other positions, we need them all, therefore we should develope the QB NOW so he's ready when our high picks at receiver walk on in a year.
 
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