I would give the "Mike Ditka Package" up for Eric Berry.

[J Tes]

Maybe Pioli wouldn't mind Phillip Merling since Tyson Jackson sucked at 3-4 DE for them as a 3rd overall pick.

I would do something like number 12, Merling, 3rd next year, 5th this year.

KC has hinted that they want to trade down. We should take advantage imo.

If the Jets can move up for Darrelle Revis, we can move up for Berry.

If the Steelers can move up for Troy Polamalu, we can move up for Berry.

Berry will have the same effect on a defense as Polamalu and Revis have on those defenses. Mark that down.

Difference is that neither the Jets or the Steelers had to move into the top 5 to get either of them. It takes a hell of a lot more to do that, than to the mid-teens

 

[Pinkboy]

Difference is that neither the Jets or the Steelers had to move into the top 5 to get either of them. It takes a hell of a lot more to do that, than to the mid-teens

The Jets moved into the top 5 last year

did they not ?

If the Jets can move from #17 to #5, then we can move from #12 to #5... especially considering Parcells' son-in-law is KC's GM.. And KC has intimated that they would like to move down.

 

[Pinkboy]

And you know what would be a great underlying story here ?

The Jets traded up to #5 for Mark Snatchez last year.

The Dolphins trade up to #5 this year with the Parcells-Pioli connection.. And the Dolphins make the same move to #5 but to own Snatchez throughout his career.. and owning their offense.

We gotta make this move as KC has given signals that they wouldn't mind trading down. If the Jets can move up from 17 to #5, then we can surely move up from #12 to #5, and for a much better player than Snatchez.

 

[datruth55]

The Jets moved into the top 5 last year

did they not ?

If the Jets can move from #17 to #5, then we can move from #12 to #5... especially considering Parcells' son-in-law is KC's GM.. And KC has intimated that they would like to move down.

And the Jets finished with 3 draft picks last year. They also traded away a bunch of picks this year and they have signed a number of aging veterans.

What does all that equal? A very small window of opportunity...like probably this year and that's it. They're already trying to trade Alan Faneca cause he's getting up there in years and going to cost them a bunch of money.

We don't need to follow that blueprint. We've already been there and it failed miserably.

 

[Yessir]

What was the compensation the Jets gave up last year in that trade up for Sanchize?

 

[Pinkboy]

and they have signed a number of aging veterans.

Who said anything about signing aging veterans ? We don't do that.

We traded for Brandon Marshall, who just turned 26, is already a top 4 player at his position, and entering his prime.. That's a move you make and give up two 2nd's for.

Eric Berry imo is the best player in this draft. We are talking about elite talent, a generational talent..

You don't need every position on a team filled with pro bowlers. You just need 5 or 6 elite guys, sprinkled in with good players, with some average ones.. and then some real chemistry

The Saints and Colts had a lot of average players on those starting units. But they had some elite ones at key positions (including two great safeties in Bethea and Sharper), along with tremendous chemistry.

 

[Pinkboy]

To show what an effect an elite player has to a team....

The Steelers vaunted defense looked like a sieve as soon as Polamalu got hurt last year.. They still had their great LB unit of Woodley, Farrior, Timmons and Harrison. But it didn't matter.

ELITE top level talent affects everyone on a team (or unit).. Adding a super-elite talent like Berry to your team is like adding 4 to 5 good players to your defense... that's how you have to look at it.

Because the guy will make so many players around him better.

On the Jets, Revis is awesome. But what he allows them to do is just leave him on one chunk of the field, and the rest of their secondary flows to the other side, outnumbering and covering other areas... those other players in their secondary were not special last year.

What that did was force QB's to have to throw to Revis's direction because of the overflow in the other areas.. and you don't want to throw to Revis too often if you're a QB. Trust me, if Revis got hurt that defensive secondary as a whole would implode.

You must look at how an elite player affects everything.. And Berry would make so many players around him better it's ridiculous. Adding him is like adding 4 very good players to your defense - as well as the great flexibility with scheme packages because of his versatility, helping everyone.

 

[datruth55]

Who said anything about signing aging veterans ? We don't do that.

We traded for Brandon Marshall, who just turned 26, is already a top 4 player at his position, and entering his prime.. That's a move you make and give up two 2nd's for.

Eric Berry imo is the best player in this draft. We are talking about elite talent, a generational talent..

You don't need every position on a team filled with pro bowlers. You just need 5 or 6 elite guys, sprinkled in with good players, with some average ones.. and then some real chemistry

The Saints and Colts had a lot of average players on those starting units. But they had some elite ones at key positions (including two great safeties in Bethea and Sharper), along with tremendous chemistry.

Colts drafted most of their players and so did the Saints.

You don't trade away an entire draft for one player. It didn't work for Ditka and it's not going to work for anybody I don't care how "elite" you think a guy can be he can't play all 22 positions at the same time.

If we were to trade our draft away to move up (say we're left with 3 picks like the Jets) and take Berry. How do we fill the other holes? We won't have a SOLB, no NT, no LG (Smiley is pretty much gone), no WOLB (Wake is still a ?), no PR/KR and a lack of depth at a number of positions (starting with linebacker).

 

[Pinkboy]

You don't trade away an entire draft for one player

Nowhere did I say to throw the entire draft for one player.. read up in the thread to what I said I would consider for the move up.

And the Saints acquired quite a few free agents on that team... as well as trades.. They weren't close to being built by the draft alone.

In fact, most of their leaders were acquired via free agency and trades (Brees, Vilma, Shockey, Sharper, Jabari Greer, to name a few)

And while you're at it, read my last post about what one super-elite talent can do for a team. You have to look at it like adding 4 or 5 good players.. not one.

And I fully believe Eric Berry is that special.

 

[datruth55]

To show what an effect an elite player has to a team....

The Steelers vaunted defense looked like a sieve as soon as Polamalu got hurt last year.. They still had their great LB unit of Woodley, Farrior, Timmons and Harrison. But it didn't matter.

Steelers secondary has more issues than just Polamalu not being there.

And to show you it's not always the case New England went 11-5 without Tom Brady.

 

[J Tes]

The Jets moved into the top 5 last year

did they not ?

If the Jets can move from #17 to #5, then we can move from #12 to #5... especially considering Parcells' son-in-law is KC's GM.. And KC has intimated that they would like to move down.

Well you're first example was that the Jets moves up to grab Revis

OK, so the Jets moved up to grab Sanchez. They gave up 3 players and a second round pick. Well Miami doesn't have a second round pick for the next 2 years so that doesnt help. So what does Miami have of value that's going to make that up? Please don't tell me Merling. I still have hope for Merling but he hasn't done much so his value is low.

As for trading away almost all of Miami's picks to move up? That's just dumb! Who the hell is going to rush the passer? Miami was short at LB last year and they've lost 2 since then. Or who's going to play NT? Who's going to compete with Garner for the LG spot? Way to many holes on this team to trade away most if not all of their picks for Eric Berry. If he get to 8,9, 10? Ok, that wouldn't cost too much

And please don't give me the "Pioli is Parcell's son in law so he'll give him a deal" crap. It's one thing when Miami is throwing him a bone and giving him a couple of lineman for a low pick. Or when Miami needed a back up QB and Pioli gave up his 3rd string QB for a 5th. This is the 5th pick in the draft and he has a very crappy team. He isn't giving it away for a third and a few of Miami's back ups

I'd also be surprised if Miami was even considering a trade up for anyone. They love their draft picks and have already traded away 2 high picks. Highly unlikely they're looking to get rid of anymore

 

[PhinsTD]

If they'd take Merling, 12, a 4 and a 6, sure do the deal.

I wouldn't give up 73 or any picks next year though.

Berry/Worilds/Clifton Geathers/Adrian Tracy/Austin Spitler/Toone/Antonio Coleman

Good draft, not sure I love our LB's in a 3-4 though.

 

[J Tes]

If they'd take Merling, 12, a 4 and a 6, sure do the deal.

I wouldn't give up 73 or any picks next year though.

Berry/Worilds/Clifton Geathers/Adrian Tracy/Austin Spitler/Toone/Antonio Coleman

Good draft, not sure I love our LB's in a 3-4 though.

I agree! Miami has way too many holes to give up anymore high picks

By the way, that wouldnt get the trade done, Not even close That may get Parcell's uninvited to Christmas dinner if he called and propsed that

 

[Pinkboy]

Well you're first example was that the Jets moves up to grab Revis

Yes, they traded up for him.. As the Steelers traded up for Polamalu.. It's called aggressiveness and those two players are the linchpins for those top level defenses... that's the bottomline.

OK, so the Jets moved up to grab Sanchez. They gave up 3 players and a second round pick. Well Miami doesn't have a second round pick for the next 2 years so that doesnt help.

Well rumors of a Ronnie Brown trade could help that.

So what does Miami have of value that's going to make that up? Please don't tell me Merling.

I mentioned another scenario.. read the thread.

As for trading away almost all of Miami's picks to move up?

I never said that.

And please don't give me the "Pioli is Parcell's son in law so he'll give him a deal" crap.

Well Pioli did give us a good deal for a very good backup QB like Thigpen... just for a 5th. Not sure if we would have gotten that deal for him if there was another GM in that seat... and knowing we were desperate for a backup QB at the time since Pennington had just gotten hurt.

I'd also be surprised if Miami was even considering a trade up for anyone. They love their draft picks and have already traded away 2 high picks. Highly unlikely they're looking to get rid of anymore

I never said they didn't like where they are. But if they can swing a reasonable deal, it would be foolish to not explore a generational talent like Eric Berry... and a guy that will make so many players around him better.... again, like adding 4 to 5 very good players to your defense

 

[Phin-Phan 66]

No ONE player is worth an entire draft - NONE. That is just ridiculous.
This team has too many holes to fill to mortgage the future on one player.

This isn't Madden or fantasy football. This is the freakin' NFL.