If Marino Played for the 49er, How Many SB Titles ? An Analysis | Page 2 | FinHeaven - Miami Dolphins Forums

If Marino Played for the 49er, How Many SB Titles ? An Analysis

Years ago I created a list of all the RBs that Marino ever played with. I asked posters on this message board to identify one that had any real success either before or after being a Dolphin. There were none. The point of the post was to shoot down the notion that the lack of a running game was somehow Marino's fault.
sounds like you lived those days too. The backs ranged from bad to mediocre or gimmicky. Sammie Smith was a train wreck and some hold him up as a decent player due to where he was drafted. I'll never forget when he fumbled in back to back games on the opponents 1-yard line and had the thing run back 99 yards for TDs. And people wonder why Dan "took the ball" out of the back's hands. We didn't have a single "special" RB during that entire era. When you go into a season w Mark Higgs or Bernie Parmelee as your #1 back - no disrespect to those guys - but that isn't going to get it done.
 
I've actually been more curious that if Marino played in today's era on the Pats instead of Brady, how many titles does he have?
he would have a couple for sure. You'd be looking at a better (and this is saying a lot) version of an Aaron Rogers type QB. With the parity we have today I think he has 2-3 in this era but also tears up the league w 1984-1986 - like numbers pretty much every year.
 
Sorry but Marino was as good as the legend. The idea that QBs make other players better is nonsense. The greatness of Marino can be measured by how much better than his contemporaries. He was in a different league than everyone else. 48 TDs when the record was 36. 5000 yards when 3000 yards was a good season.
i didn't give this post the props it deserves. Completely agree this is the true measure of how dominant a player is in any sport - how they perform vs their contemporaries. While Manning and Brady kept 1-upping each other w 49 then 50 then 52 or whatever it was; Marino broke the record in like week 11 or something. Also, in '84 we'd get big leads and then run the ball and not the scoreboard as did Brady in 2007 (you recall, up by 28 but still chucking bombs to Moss w 5 min left). If Marino was going for stats in '84 I bet he throws another 5-10 TDs throughout the season - easy.

There are only a handful of players in any sport that just dominated their contemporaries the way Marino did.
 
Lets not get too carried away with the legend. The legend is always better than the actual player. From 1986-89 Marino and the Dolphins had 8, 7, 6 & 8 wins consecutively. He was terrible in 1989 with 24 td's to 22 picks. He didn't get a lot of help but he wasn't that guy making people around him better either.
eh... The team was crap during those years. Crap as in they were 2-4 win teams without Dan - that's how bad their defense was. I lived it. Every 3 down sequence where the D couldn't get a stop - like ever. It was brutal.

Not that it's a big deal but their record was actually 8-8, 8-7, 6-10, 8-8. In '87 you had the scabs during the strike and I think we went 1-2 with Kyle Mackey at the helm so Dan was 7-5 as the starter I believe. As I said, not a big deal.

As for not making people better - you are kidding right? Take Nat Moore - old, and thought to be washed up after the '82 season where he catches just 9 balls. What does he do when be starts playing w Marino - he's hauling in 50, 60 balls as the 3rd receiver. You think Duper and Clayton would have put up the numbers they did elsewhere? They weren't great players. They were good made to look great. If you watched what the receivers and TEs did from Woodley to Marino you'd see he made everyone more productive. And those years you point to - take a look at our draft classes during that stretch- every draft class was like the recent one that produced Jamar Taylor and whatever other ****ty players we got that year. Imagine the impact from 4-5 straight years of total whiffage? We became contenders again in 1990 - no coincidence that's the year we drafted Webb and Sims.
 
What it comes down to is football being a team sport. John Elway is a perfect example. He was absolutely horrible in his super bowl appearances before the Broncos got Terrell Davis and established a dominant running game. With Davis, Elway won two titles there.

Joe Montana was a perfect fit for Bill Walsh's offense that featured a short passing game and required an accurate passer. Montana was super. But, I'd guess Trent Dilfer or Jeff Hostettler win a couple of titles (maybe not three) with that talent around them. That's not to demean Montana, but SF was one of the best super bowl teams ever.

While Dan Marino's style was different from Montana's, I believe his success would have been similar. I always ranked Montana as the best quarterback of his era with Marino second. But I will say this for Marino he lifted the talent level on the Dolphins perhaps more than any quarterback could have.

Another poster mentioned that Miami's talent sometimes looked like maybe three wins, but they would hang in the playoff race. Not sure that Montana could have done that with the Dolphins. Of course we'll never know, but that's the kind of discussion that makes the football offseason less boring.
 
i didn't give this post the props it deserves. Completely agree this is the true measure of how dominant a player is in any sport - how they perform vs their contemporaries. While Manning and Brady kept 1-upping each other w 49 then 50 then 52 or whatever it was; Marino broke the record in like week 11 or something. Also, in '84 we'd get big leads and then run the ball and not the scoreboard as did Brady in 2007 (you recall, up by 28 but still chucking bombs to Moss w 5 min left). If Marino was going for stats in '84 I bet he throws another 5-10 TDs throughout the season - easy.

There are only a handful of players in any sport that just dominated their contemporaries the way Marino did.

If I get the time, I'll look up the average yards per touchdown pass for Marino compared with Brady and Manning. Seem like a lot of short td tosses for Brady, but I could be wrong.
 
He would have won at least 3 on SF and as Hoops pointed out he would have won some w Denver and w the Bills. Miami just had no supporting cast due to awful drafting as another poster demonstrated. Marino played w just 1 HOFer - Dwight Stephenson - and that was only for 2-3 years before Dwight got hurt. Not another guy on the roster in Canton or going except Jason Taylor - and by then it was really too late. From '83-'94 was the window.

I've always thought the 1984 Dolphins team would have beaten a lot of super bowl entrants. Unfortunately, the 49ers were one of the best super bowl teams of all-time....plus SF essentially had home field advantage with the game in Palo Alto.
 
What it comes down to is football being a team sport. John Elway is a perfect example. He was absolutely horrible in his super bowl appearances before the Broncos got Terrell Davis and established a dominant running game. With Davis, Elway won two titles there.

Joe Montana was a perfect fit for Bill Walsh's offense that featured a short passing game and required an accurate passer. Montana was super. But, I'd guess Trent Dilfer or Jeff Hostettler win a couple of titles (maybe not three) with that talent around them. That's not to demean Montana, but SF was one of the best super bowl teams ever.

While Dan Marino's style was different from Montana's, I believe his success would have been similar. I always ranked Montana as the best quarterback of his era with Marino second. But I will say this for Marino he lifted the talent level on the Dolphins perhaps more than any quarterback could have.

Another poster mentioned that Miami's talent sometimes looked like maybe three wins, but they would hang in the playoff race. Not sure that Montana could have done that with the Dolphins. Of course we'll never know, but that's the kind of discussion that makes the football offseason less boring.
i agree w this. I do believe our .500 teams were really .250 teams without Marino and our .750 teams may have been .500 teams. I like where you are going w the Montana on Miami thing. In my mind, as awesome as Joe was I don't think his type / style of play would have elevated / carried the ****ty squads that we had to the level Dan did. We won a lot of games that we "stole" because of Dan - games we had no business winning. Games where we lose the TO battle and get out-rushed 180-18. Montana was not the type of QB who could overcome that stuff. What he did give you was the near flawless execution of that short passing game offense as you mentioned. But to ask him to throw it 45 times back then and win a shoot-out I don't think was a formula that would have worked for him. Doesn't mean he wasn't the GOAT. One of the best playoff games two QBs ever played was when Montana was w KC and he and Marino dueled like the incredible greats they were - both guys were so dialed in that day. Clutch throws, 4th down conversions, matching each other score for score until someone finally made a mistake. And it was Joe - inside the 5 late in the game gets his route jumped by JB Brown (ala Malcom Bulter) in the EZ. One of the most underrated playoff games IMO.
 
I've always thought the 1984 Dolphins team would have beaten a lot of super bowl entrants. Unfortunately, the 49ers were one of the best super bowl teams of all-time....plus SF essentially had home field advantage with the game in Palo Alto.
it was a bad break to draw them. Our '84 team would indeed have beaten many, many SB winners. 14-2 and we rolled through the playoffs w ease. Problem was the Niners were 15-1 - their only loss that year was an OT game w the AFC runner up Steelers. They came an over time FG from going unbeaten - which is closer than the '85 bears got - but no one talks about this 49er team in the same light - I'm not sure why that is.
 
it was a bad break to draw them. Our '84 team would indeed have beaten many, many SB winners. 14-2 and we rolled through the playoffs w ease. Problem was the Niners were 15-1 - their only loss that year was an OT game w the AFC runner up Steelers. They came an over time FG from going unbeaten - which is closer than the '85 bears got - but no one talks about this 49er team in the same light - I'm not sure why that is.

and everybody always talks about the Offense, with Montana, Craig, etc, but their defense was absolutely amazing, with one of if not the best secondary of all time. they are a team that is usually underrated (maybe part of the reason is the amazing season dan and the dolphins offense had,that kind of overshadowed the 49ers) but they were dominant as they came. I don't see how that kind of team could have been so much worse with Dan

In today NFL, wHere QBs are untouchables and where they can play till they are 38-39 years old without any major injury, where you can always throw the ball away (the intentional grounding rule's change, IMO, is one of the biggest factor in the No defense NFL of our days....) when someone is covered, instead of risking a pass and getting beaten to a pulp by the d.line like the old great ones, when the WR are running free of contact... well, I think he would be just illegal, with his magic feet, the quickest release of all time, the freaking amazing field vision, the clutch factor, the leadership, etc etc
In my eyes, Dan is still the best talent ever at the position, the definitive NATURAL. And one thing: I think Dan's stats...are the less impressive thing about him... I think only watching him play, you can understand his greatness... and it makes me sad thinking that most of the fans will remember him most for t for the super season and the stats, instead that for how freaking great and magical and almost perfect for the role it was (yes, yes, I know, he didn't like to fake a run and preferred to pass instead to feed the great ones like Higgins, Craver, Parmalee, Kirby and so on, silly him).


but it is just a dream and an argument that you could apply to many qbs I guess.... Imagine if Montana played today...and his career wasnt' changed by the hits&injuries... I mean, how longer would have been the 49ers dynasty? the secret of New England longevity is actually just that, IMHO: Brady (or Manning except last year) can be still effective in their late thirties not because they are better players than or athletes or pros than, say, Marino or Montana or...Stabler? and many others, but just because they are much much less damaged (I remember when Montana was with the Chiefs...he was still freaking decisive in the game, but still he was a shadow of the previous self)

sorry for the rant and the sucky English
 
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I've actually been more curious that if Marino played in today's era on the Pats instead of Brady, how many titles does he have?

And I've always been curious how those Dolphins teams would have been with Brady as their QB? Does he get any rings? Do we even see them make the playoffs?
 
i didn't give this post the props it deserves. Completely agree this is the true measure of how dominant a player is in any sport - how they perform vs their contemporaries. While Manning and Brady kept 1-upping each other w 49 then 50 then 52 or whatever it was; Marino broke the record in like week 11 or something. Also, in '84 we'd get big leads and then run the ball and not the scoreboard as did Brady in 2007 (you recall, up by 28 but still chucking bombs to Moss w 5 min left). If Marino was going for stats in '84 I bet he throws another 5-10 TDs throughout the season - easy.

There are only a handful of players in any sport that just dominated their contemporaries the way Marino did.

Marino is also the only QB i've ever seen described as one of the best of all time so early in his career. You could just see it. He was special. To put it in context, what would people do if Jamies Winston comes out this season and throws 60 TDs and 6000 yards? The NFL world would go crazy.
 
Shula's loyalty to Tom Olivadotti was the reason Marino never won a SB. i watched every game of Marino's career and i remember if the dolphins had a late lead and their defense was on the field for a final stop, i would actually hope for the other team to score quick to leave marino some time.. You knew they would score anyway so do it quick and marino would win it late. why he kept olivadotti is my only complaint about Shula
 
Shula's loyalty to Tom Olivadotti was the reason Marino never won a SB. i watched every game of Marino's career and i remember if the dolphins had a late lead and their defense was on the field for a final stop, i would actually hope for the other team to score quick to leave marino some time.. You knew they would score anyway so do it quick and marino would win it late. why he kept olivadotti is my only complaint about Shula
absolutely true.
 
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