If Miami gives up a 1st day pick For Brunell...

[Fisticuff]

Then I won't even watch a game this season.

Why does everyone want Miami to trade for Brunell? If he was signed as a FA (which won't happen) then thats different. It's still waste of time IMO, but not the worst thing in the world. It's like trading Rivers for Brunell (assuming Miami could draft Rivers, which is likely).

This team needs to get younger. This team needs a rookie QB/WR immediately. It's not even up for discussion. If you believe otherwise you're wrong, and thats that.

Look at the few teams who're interested in Brunell. Dallas still has a young Quincy Carter (who made strides this season). QC can still sit and learn at this point in his career. Washington has Ramsey, who displayed amazing talent early in the 2003 season (before his Oline started to play like crap). Miami has who? NO one! Sage hasn't played against starters in a real game situation (In 2002 in GB, he missed all his passes, and in 2003 he scored against the titans when it was 31-0).

If Miami gives up a 1st round pick (which would most likely happen because Washington/Dallas has a 2nd round pick) then it's a waste. Just like Dave Wannstedt's other moves (Except Ricky). Sorry Ricky, you came to a team full of morons.

This deal isn't good for Miami. It wouldn't surprise me if this happened, after the crap thats already taken place. I'm sick of this coaching staff, and front office. They haven't done anything good in the last 8 years. Dip****s everywhere I look. News flash, Rick and Dave you're willing to give up a 1st for a 33 year old has been. What sounds right about that statement?

 

[DolphinDevil28]

Yeah right, you know you'd watch.

 

[Dolphins17-0]

Originally posted by Fisticuff
Then I won't even watch a game this season.

Why does everyone want Miami to trade for Brunell? If he was signed as a FA (which won't happen) then thats different. It's still waste of time IMO, but not the worst thing in the world. It's like trading Rivers for Brunell (assuming Miami could draft Rivers, which is likely).

This team needs to get younger. This team needs a rookie QB/WR immediately. It's not even up for discussion. If you believe otherwise you're wrong, and thats that.

Look at the few teams who're interested in Brunell. Dallas still has a young Quincy Carter (who made strides this season). QC can still sit and learn at this point in his career. Washington has Ramsey, who displayed amazing talent early in the 2003 season (before his Oline started to play like crap). Miami has who? NO one! Sage hasn't played against starters in a real game situation (In 2002 in GB, he missed all his passes, and in 2003 he scored against the titans when it was 31-0).

If Miami gives up a 1st round pick (which would most likely happen because Washington/Dallas has a 2nd round pick) then it's a waste. Just like Dave Wannstedt's other moves (Except Ricky). Sorry Ricky, you came to a team full of morons.

This deal isn't good for Miami. It wouldn't surprise me if this happened, after the crap thats already taken place. I'm sick of this coaching staff, and front office. They haven't done anything good in the last 8 years. Dip****s everywhere I look. News flash, Rick and Dave you're willing to give up a 1st for a 33 year old has been. What sounds right about that statement?

1. link me to the article that says were gonna give up a first for brunell.
2. Rookie wr/qb immediately? i must be dead wrong then, because i think we need help on the O-line more than we need the rookie WR(which we can drop down and get later in the draft). Sure i'd love a top notch rookie qb, but we cant get the top two and if rivers doesnt get to us then i dont want to reach for losman, id rather be patient and upgrade everywhere else rather than force the qb issue.

youre right on brunell, he's not close to worth a 1st round pick
and we do need to get younger.... on defense
we probably have one of the younger offenses in the nfl
(chambers, mcmike, ricky, real young olinemen as backups ready to step up)

if you've been reading the posts youd see pretty much no one here wants the dolphins to trade for brunell(wanted him to sign as an FA), we are all saying if they want a first day draft pick for him, then forget it

don't get all ignorant like a lot of people in here thinking your way is the only way and everyone else is wrong, if you could build a championship football team you wouldnt be here with the rest of us. Your idea is just an opinion, it is not right, or wrong, don't forget that ever

 

[TonyStrong]

If where going the new QB route (which we have too) it's time to plan for the future. I don't want to bring in a player someone else is quickly trying to get rid of and hasn't won anything for years. Let's take the 20th pick and either package it for Henson or draft someone with the 20th. Either way I am opposed to doing the same thing we did last year with Griese and having it blow up in our faces.

 

[ckparrothead]

To be fair I don't think its like trading Rivers for Brunell because I don't think its likely anymore that Miami could get Rivers at #20. His stock has been soaring and it seems like a lot of teams are somewhat positioning themselves to take Rivers with a mid first round draft pick, meaning then they will all start having to compete with each other in the middle of the first round, until eventually Rivers goes in like the top ten.

We know that Oakland, Arizona, Giants, Pittsburgh, Buffalo, Miami, and Green Bay are all in the market for a young QB to groom...enough to maybe use a first round selection on the right guy. To fulfill that we have Eli Manning, Ben Roethlisberger, Phil Rivers, Drew Henson, and I suppose JP Losman though to be honest teams nowadays are so leary of head cases I could see Losman falling all the way to the 3rd round. If you eliminate Losman, you've got 4 guys to satisfy 5 teams that draft ahead of Miami. If Green Bay gets Henson (and they do look to be the front runners for him) then you've got 3 guys to fulfill the needs of 5 teams that all draft ahead of Miami. In order for Miami to get Rivers then you would have to bank on 3 of the 5 teams taking a pass on a QB. I could see 2 of them taking a pass, Buffalo being one of them, but three of them might be a stretch...and even more of a stretch for there not to be some trading going on that ends with Rivers being selected just before Miami's selection at #20.

Our best bet IMO is to make a draft day trade with the Houston Texans of Adewale Ogunleye and our #20 for Houston's #10 and like, a third rounder. Precedent is there through the Hasselback trade. Of course this could become completely unnecessary if Rivers shows up to the Combine and like, takes a crap all over the field or somehow turns everyone off to him or if Losman comes out there with an A+ winning personality and impresses people like Kyle Boller did a year ago. Or maybe just maybe if Henson does end up going to the Steelers, who then would not select Rivers at #11, and Buffalo I still think will pass on a QB with #13 they have so many more pressing matters...so then maybe Rivers lasts all the way to #20 but thats assuming another team doesn't trade in front of us to get him.

 

[Fisticuff]

Re: Re: If Miami gives up a 1st day pick For Brunell...

Originally posted by Dolphins17-0


1. link me to the article that says were gonna give up a first for brunell.
2. Rookie wr/qb immediately? i must be dead wrong then, because i think we need help on the O-line more than we need the rookie WR(which we can drop down and get later in the draft). Sure i'd love a top notch rookie qb, but we cant get the top two and if rivers doesnt get to us then i dont want to reach for losman, id rather be patient and upgrade everywhere else rather than force the qb issue.

youre right on brunell, he's not close to worth a 1st round pick
and we do need to get younger.... on defense
we probably have one of the younger offenses in the nfl
(chambers, mcmike, ricky, real young olinemen as backups ready to step up)

if you've been reading the posts youd see pretty much no one here wants the dolphins to trade for brunell(wanted him to sign as an FA), we are all saying if they want a first day draft pick for him, then forget it

don't get all ignorant like a lot of people in here thinking your way is the only way and everyone else is wrong, if you could build a championship football team you wouldnt be here with the rest of us. Your idea is just an opinion, it is not right, or wrong, don't forget that ever

1. There is no article that says Miami is going to trade for Brunell. Theres speculation that they have serious interest. Enough to do this deal. Thats what this thread is based on.

2. The dolphins do not need OL help more then any other position. The only position thats in a serious need for upgrading is RT (Wade). Nails wasn't fit to play this year because of his injury, Smith was a rookie, McKinney showed ability to play, and apparently Spielman says Taylor Whitley (SP?) might take over a G spot this year.

Miami's WR have been awful for the last 8 years. McKnight and Thompson blow ***. They're not even real #3. Hopefully Tolver will step up (Unless Wannstedt keeps him down again). If you pay attention to the draft there is no one good enough to select in the first round (OL) after Andrews and Gallery. The only other prospect (Carey) is known for his laziness, more then his skill. This is why QB/WR is more important (especially if Miami has 2 first rounders).

How many 3rd round WR are going to make an impact in Miami? None of them. They're probably good for the future, but not to win now.

 

[DeDolfan]

Originally posted by Fisticuff
Then I won't even watch a game this season.

Why does everyone want Miami to trade for Brunell? If he was signed as a FA (which won't happen) then thats different. It's still waste of time IMO, but not the worst thing in the world. It's like trading Rivers for Brunell (assuming Miami could draft Rivers, which is likely).

This team needs to get younger. This team needs a rookie QB/WR immediately. It's not even up for discussion. If you believe otherwise you're wrong, and thats that.

Look at the few teams who're interested in Brunell. Dallas still has a young Quincy Carter (who made strides this season). QC can still sit and learn at this point in his career. Washington has Ramsey, who displayed amazing talent early in the 2003 season (before his Oline started to play like crap). Miami has who? NO one! Sage hasn't played against starters in a real game situation (In 2002 in GB, he missed all his passes, and in 2003 he scored against the titans when it was 31-0).

If Miami gives up a 1st round pick (which would most likely happen because Washington/Dallas has a 2nd round pick) then it's a waste. Just like Dave Wannstedt's other moves (Except Ricky). Sorry Ricky, you came to a team full of morons.

This deal isn't good for Miami. It wouldn't surprise me if this happened, after the crap thats already taken place. I'm sick of this coaching staff, and front office. They haven't done anything good in the last 8 years. Dip****s everywhere I look. News flash, Rick and Dave you're willing to give up a 1st for a 33 year old has been. What sounds right about that statement?

No way would I give a #1 for a 34 yr old QB. Or a 2nd either for that matter. A 3rd would be more likely.

 

[iceblizzard69]

I have already lost a lot of confidence in the franchise, but if we trade for Brunell then all of it is gone. I will still watch every game this season, but if we trade a first rounder or even a first day pick for Brunell then it is official that no one in our front office has any idea what the hell they are doing. Draft picks are essential. They are very important to the building of a franchise and making the team younger. When you trade a draft pick, you better get good value. When we traded a pick for Seau, we got very good value since it was a low round pick. Even though we gave the Saints two first rounders, we got a stud in Ricky Williams. Mark Brunell is a 30-something QB who is past his prime. You don't give up a first day pick let alone a first round pick for him. He just isn't worth it. I would rather have Fiedler around next year then Brunell and no first round pick. I think Brunell is better than Fiedler but having a first rounder is just more important than having Mark Brunell.

 

[Mindwarp]

if they trade a first day pick i will still watch ever game just be uset that we gave up so much for so little

 

[Muck]

Re: Re: Re: If Miami gives up a 1st day pick For Brunell...

Originally posted by Fisticuff

2. The dolphins do not need OL help more then any other position. The only position thats in a serious need for upgrading is RT (Wade). Nails wasn't fit to play this year because of his injury, Smith was a rookie, McKinney showed ability to play, and apparently Spielman says Taylor Whitley (SP?) might take over a G spot this year.

Yes they do. The offensive line is the number one need on this team because....as the old cliche goes...."everything starts up front". And our OL has been between "horrible" and "you didn't get him killed this time".

You're banking on too many unknowns and haven't beens. Nails may never make it back. McKinney might not live up to expectations. And Taylor Whitley hasn't shown anything yet at all.

At the very least, we need to bring in a starting guard. Preferably for the left side and let Nails, Whitley, and whoever else battle it out for the right side.

RT could use an upgrade too. But bringing back Wade wouldn't be the end of the world. And the tackle position is much stronger than the interior.

It'd be nice to get a nice new QB and WR. But without the OL, we're doomed to a similar fate.

 

[Da 'Fins]

Originally posted by DolphinDevil28
Yeah right, you know you'd watch.

SIMPLE MATH
DUKE > north carolina

LET'S GO DEVILS!

AMEN! Been a Duke fan since '78. Really picked up in '84. The Dukesters are the one thing that keeps me going with this Dolphin Morass.

The Dolphins management right now is worthless.

The man who needs firing is Huizenga!

 

[Fisticuff]

Re: Re: Re: Re: If Miami gives up a 1st day pick For Brunell...

Originally posted by Muck


Yes they do. The offensive line is the number one need on this team because....as the old cliche goes...."everything starts up front". And our OL has been between "horrible" and "you didn't get him killed this time".

You're banking on too many unknowns and haven't beens. Nails may never make it back. McKinney might not live up to expectations. And Taylor Whitley hasn't shown anything yet at all.

At the very least, we need to bring in a starting guard. Preferably for the left side and let Nails, Whitley, and whoever else battle it out for the right side.

RT could use an upgrade too. But bringing back Wade wouldn't be the end of the world. And the tackle position is much stronger than the interior.

It'd be nice to get a nice new QB and WR. But without the OL, we're doomed to a similar fate.

Yes I will agree i'm "banking" on unknowns. Nails, I can agree with you. He may never be back. It's hard to come back from that injury, and return to a high level. I also it might have to do with his weight. He was like 330 in 2002, and 360 in 2003.

McKinney is a young player. By that logic, no team should gamble (if you can call it that) on any player who showed raw ability. Whitley did a good job when he went in (the ravens game). He's impressed the coaches enough (for a young player on this team) to be praised with a potential starting job.

If I had it my way, I would try for Walter Jones (RT) and a C (to let Mckinney move to guard). Even Timmerman (G) would be OK.

I know oline is important, I think this team has a few and coming players. If Nails returns to his old form, it would be awesome for this line.

 

[ckparrothead]

We definitely need offensive line help through free agency, probably more so than we need WR or QB in free agency.

We have great WRs and QB coaches. Our OL coach hasn't proven much to me though. We can get by with last year's receivers I truly believe that. I think they left a lot of talent to waste out on the field that wasn't necessarily their fault. Just look how promising the situation looked in the preseason and training camp. JR Tolver was impressing the he|| out of people and there were talks that Derrius Thompson could supplant Chris Chambers as the #1 WR...and those talks were FOUNDED because while Chambers was inconsistent during training camp and preseason, Derrius looked like our most impressive WR. With better WRs and QB coaches, a new Offensive Coordinator, we wouldn't necessarily leave all that talent unutilized once again. Tolver and Simmons have had another year to get better, Derrius had a year to get comfortable in this system. If a talented QB ends up throwing them the ball, bam you've got a respectable offense.

When it comes to the draft though I just don't think it would be wise to draft offensive linemen in like, the first round though. Yeah we need OL but we need the OL help right now...as in Free Agency. I'm not entirely convinced this crop of OL talent has what we need in the first round and that includes (maybe especially) Vernon Carey and Shawn Andrews.

But as for it all starting up front I somewhat disagree with that assessment. Yeah building your OL helps but a good RB can make an OL play better, and a good QB can give an OL reason to block better. Its a return on investment question. You block better for a Jay Fiedler, is he gonna be able to pick teams apart from the pocket and be a real threat? Not really. He doesn't have the arm or accuracy. But what he's really good at is moving around, throwing on the run, making heads up plays of that nature cuz he's got heart and guts.

But if you put a gunslinger back there with a good arm who can actually hurt a team for giving him too much time to throw the ball, that may encourage the line to block better. Thats why I think in the draft we should go for Rivers, meanwhile have Sage duke it out with SOMEBODY for the starting QB job (I won't say a name since Cranx will just start jumping all over my case again).

 

[ckparrothead]

I also it might have to do with his weight. He was like 330 in 2002, and 360 in 2003.

I think you may have hit the "nail" right on the head so to speak. This season Nails looked fat and slow and I honestly don't think the latter had much to do with the achilles. In 2002 he was ultra-motivated to get his career back on track and showed up the slimmest and quickest he's ever been. The achilles may have contributed to his fatness, and therefore his slowness, but I think it was his weight and motivation that were problems.

I've seen fat guys lose that mobility and desire before after having made their name in Turner's offense. Tre Johnson comes to mind. I was worried even while Nails was having such a magical season that he would be a one-year wonder. I think it would be a mistake to count on him again unless we rode him HARD on his being in shape. And I do mean HARD.

 

[ZOD]

Re: Re: Re: If Miami gives up a 1st day pick For Brunell...

Originally posted by Fisticuff
The only position thats in a serious need for upgrading is RT (Wade). Nails wasn't fit to play this year because of his injury, Smith was a rookie, McKinney showed ability to play, and apparently Spielman says Taylor Whitley (SP?) might take over a G spot this year.

If you read your own words more than once you would know it to be fact that the Dolphin's offensive line absolutely sucks in comparison to a playoff contender.

Read your words a couple of times and think about it.