If the O-line is a disaster, look back to the offseason | Page 4 | FinHeaven - Miami Dolphins Forums

If the O-line is a disaster, look back to the offseason

Too many variables to adequately evaluate free agent pursuits. With all the potential suitors and different priorities for each player, I'm not about to claim we could have or should have gotten this guy or that guy.

But I was posting here on draft day and salivating as Khalif Barnes plummeted closer and closer to our pick at #46. There was a thread with many of us in glee when he was available. Matt Roth is an exemplary hardtrying DE who should have a long career. But no one is going to convince me now or on draft day that Khalif Barnes wasn't a superior pick or football player. He has feet and a mean streak. You can win titles with Barnes at LT. With Barnes at LT and Carey at RT we would have potential bookend young athletic tackles, and none of this positional monkeying around garbage like trying to pretend Carey is a LT.

I'm relieved the OL ineptitude has focused on the talent level of the players and dispelled plenty of the lunacy that Hudson Houck could pull off the chicken salad trick, i.e. Gary Stevens. Rob Konrad is absolutely correct in Wedensday's Herald, saying you need two dominant linemen and the Dolphins have none, blaming it on Jimmy Johnson's old philosophy of not drafting linemen higher than the 3rd. Konrad also may have a point that Carey is best suited to guard. His frame screams he is a guard. As a Cane he played much better at RT as a junior than guard as a senior. But he was banged up as a senior all year, in fact missing virtually all of the second half of the FSU bowl game other than a few short yardage plays.

Extreme kudos to Keith Sims for pointing out Carey demonstrated he can't handle outside speed rushers at LT. Precisely. I was among the only posters on this forum critical of Carey's play at LT this preseason. It simply didn't matter how he was faring versus the guy in front of him, looking at the technique and positioning stamped without debate he would get mangled at LT by the top RDEs.

We need top shelf athletes at OL and we'll get some. These dedicated blue collar goofs don't dominate on the OL anymore, not with increasing size and talent level on the defensive fronts. The first criteria should be to ignore any semblance of an overachiever.
 
Awsi Dooger said:
Too many variables to adequately evaluate free agent pursuits. With all the potential suitors and different priorities for each player, I'm not about to claim we could have or should have gotten this guy or that guy.

But I was posting here on draft day and salivating as Khalif Barnes plummeted closer and closer to our pick at #46. There was a thread with many of us in glee when he was available. Matt Roth is an exemplary hardtrying DE who should have a long career. But no one is going to convince me now or on draft day that Khalif Barnes wasn't a superior pick or football player. He has feet and a mean streak. You can win titles with Barnes at LT. With Barnes at LT and Carey at RT we would have potential bookend young athletic tackles, and none of this positional monkeying around garbage like trying to pretend Carey is a LT.

I'm relieved the OL ineptitude has focused on the talent level of the players and dispelled plenty of the lunacy that Hudson Houck could pull off the chicken salad trick, i.e. Gary Stevens. Rob Konrad is absolutely correct in Wedensday's Herald, saying you need two dominant linemen and the Dolphins have none, blaming it on Jimmy Johnson's old philosophy of not drafting linemen higher than the 3rd. Konrad also may have a point that Carey is best suited to guard. His frame screams he is a guard. As a Cane he played much better at RT as a junior than guard as a senior. But he was banged up as a senior all year, in fact missing virtually all of the second half of the FSU bowl game other than a few short yardage plays.

Extreme kudos to Keith Sims for pointing out Carey demonstrated he can't handle outside speed rushers at LT. Precisely. I was among the only posters on this forum critical of Carey's play at LT this preseason. It simply didn't matter how he was faring versus the guy in front of him, looking at the technique and positioning stamped without debate he would get mangled at LT by the top RDEs.

We need top shelf athletes at OL and we'll get some. These dedicated blue collar goofs don't dominate on the OL anymore, not with increasing size and talent level on the defensive fronts. The first criteria should be to ignore any semblance of an overachiever.

well said...
 
Awsi Dooger said:
Too many variables to adequately evaluate free agent pursuits. With all the potential suitors and different priorities for each player, I'm not about to claim we could have or should have gotten this guy or that guy.

But I was posting here on draft day and salivating as Khalif Barnes plummeted closer and closer to our pick at #46. There was a thread with many of us in glee when he was available. Matt Roth is an exemplary hardtrying DE who should have a long career. But no one is going to convince me now or on draft day that Khalif Barnes wasn't a superior pick or football player. He has feet and a mean streak. You can win titles with Barnes at LT. With Barnes at LT and Carey at RT we would have potential bookend young athletic tackles, and none of this positional monkeying around garbage like trying to pretend Carey is a LT.

I'm relieved the OL ineptitude has focused on the talent level of the players and dispelled plenty of the lunacy that Hudson Houck could pull off the chicken salad trick, i.e. Gary Stevens. Rob Konrad is absolutely correct in Wedensday's Herald, saying you need two dominant linemen and the Dolphins have none, blaming it on Jimmy Johnson's old philosophy of not drafting linemen higher than the 3rd. Konrad also may have a point that Carey is best suited to guard. His frame screams he is a guard. As a Cane he played much better at RT as a junior than guard as a senior. But he was banged up as a senior all year, in fact missing virtually all of the second half of the FSU bowl game other than a few short yardage plays.

Extreme kudos to Keith Sims for pointing out Carey demonstrated he can't handle outside speed rushers at LT. Precisely. I was among the only posters on this forum critical of Carey's play at LT this preseason. It simply didn't matter how he was faring versus the guy in front of him, looking at the technique and positioning stamped without debate he would get mangled at LT by the top RDEs.

We need top shelf athletes at OL and we'll get some. These dedicated blue collar goofs don't dominate on the OL anymore, not with increasing size and talent level on the defensive fronts. The first criteria should be to ignore any semblance of an overachiever.


That is a damn fine post.
 
The only intelligent thing I have seen here is we as fans dont know what we are looking at when we watch the line play, even for those who have played the game they couldnt know the technique that a particular linemen is trying to use on a play.
One type of running play could be coached to be blocked two or three different ways , so we need to understand watching a wr drop a pass is easy to understand he screwed up....but saying Linemen "x" cant play because the running back avg. 2.9 yds a carry is fool harted in the immortal words of former Saints & Colts HC..."You think you know but you dont know,,,and you never will"

I think we need to relax let the coaches figure out who the best 5 linemen are and then after a 4-5 games we will have a more realistic view of where this team stands in terms of O-line talent.

In terms of the stories of linemen bickering with the coaches eh that doesnt bother me much,,, worst case if its a matter of a player truly "not buying into the program" he simply will be cut no biggie its not like we are hearing that a linemen the talent of say Richmond Webb is having trouble with the coaches.
 
Dol-Fan Dupree said:
If Miami changed their entire line they would have the same problem they are having now. The line has to learn how to play together. That generally takes time. They have been blocking live together for a month now?


i don't know how that's constantly forgotten. by all accounts, the left side of the line has been working great. maybe with the shake-up, we'll get the confident, hungry, attentive group on the field.
 
zephon said:
... While I disagree with you ,Chuckcole, in that I dont think that Rick's past moves had bearing on Rick being fired, I agree with our 100% on the fact that Rick simply wasn't a "Saban" guy....truly think that is a "fact"! ...
Yeah, I probably listed that incorrectly for even what I think. I think if I had to weigh each on how much they played a role, the Spielman's past experiences would be weighted very low compared to the "Saban" guy.
 
I do not believe as most do that this OL is crap. The OL looked good against Jaxonville. I believe they found a guy sleeping........Mcdougle (and Mcmicheal but he is too valuable to pick on). As much as Mckinney sucks, he is doing better than last year. I believe we are waiting for Middleton and Ephraim to get into shape and get the offense. Keep in mind people, once again, the blocking schemes were very bland as well as the playcalling for Pitt. I think people are overjudging this Oline based on imcomplete "big picture" information. Once Linehan runs his real stuff, we will get a much clearer picture. Bank on it.
 
PressCoverage said:
in the "O-line needs to shutup" thread (if i read it correctly), this person was asking me to determine who was available for an O-line overhaul this past offseason...



well, let's see...

the following free agent linemen were available this offseason:

OG Bennie Anderson
OG Joe Andruzzi
OG Cosey Coleman
OG Marco Rivera (among the best in the league)
OT Kareem McKenzie (admittedly, huge contract)
C Casey Rabach (very cheap to Wash.; would have been my choice, positionwise, to upgrade in free agency)
OG Rick DeMulling
OT Fred Miller
OG Roberto Garza
OG Mike Wahle (came really cheap to Carolina)
OG Jermaine Mayberry
OT Oliver Ross
OT Jonas Jennings

some good players in there... but instead, we spend $38 million on a 31-year-old defensive tackle (albeit still a good one)

in the draft: when we took Roth, a guy like RT Marcus Johnson of Mississippi was available... he's taken over the starting job in Minnesota and looks very strong... also Khalif Barnes was there... he dominated North-South game (or one of the postseason all-star games, i forget which one), and will soon start for the Jags...

Roth may be a decent player, but OT, OG or C were areas of desperate need...

You can analyze it all you like and say "well, the draft wasn't deep at position X" or "there wasn't a good enough guard at that slot", etc. etc. ... But, here we are... Still trying to make chicken soup with chicken droppings... If you doubt it's a serious problem because it's "only preseason," have a look at the complaining by the underachieving O-Line players themselves, and the return sniping by the coaches on them for blown assignments, false starts and no real push in the run game this summer....

i'm sure the coaching staff and front office knows what they're doing, long term, but i believe the defense had depth already -- at least in the front seven... and a few capable interior linemen would have made the defense all the fresher... at the very LEAST: we needed a center worth a damn...

don't get me wrong: I love Carter, i have my fingers crossed for Roth, i wish the best for Traylor, i pray Holliday can stay healthy, i hope Donnie Spragan makes plays, i wish Tillman, Tebucky and Shulters all the best...

i just feel that 1 or 2 of those contracts should have gone toward better hogs up front... Casay Rabach, at least...

Prediction: We'll average less than 4.0 yards per carry and allow sacks in the bottom third of the league this year...

I do hope I'm wrong -- In Hudson Houck We Trust!!!
we did pick up Damien Cook and Stocker McDougle
 
PressCoverage said:
and we couldn't do the same with those four you mentioned?

Andruzzi's base salary is less than $1.5million each of the first three years
Wahle as well

Jennings? heavily backloaded, much the same as you suggest Carter's
McKenzie as well.. .

I really agree with you. Saban went overboard with DE's. At one point after yet another DE acquisition I recall thinking, Dam this guy is with DE's like Wanny was with CB's. I think you're right. He made a mistake in not addressing OL and (DT I might add) if I may add, in the draft and FA.
 
Sherif said:
I really agree with you. Saban went overboard with DE's. At one point after yet another DE acquisition I recall thinking, Dam this guy is with DE's like Wanny was with CB's. I think you're right. He made a mistake in not addressing OL and (DT I might add) if I may add, in the draft and FA.

Well if Saban's defense is very dependant on DE as everyone who knows of Saban's defense has mentioned then it does make sense he loads up on DEs.
 
finfan54 said:
I do not believe as most do that this OL is crap. The OL looked good against Jaxonville. I believe they found a guy sleeping........Mcdougle (and Mcmicheal but he is too valuable to pick on). As much as Mckinney sucks, he is doing better than last year. I believe we are waiting for Middleton and Ephraim to get into shape and get the offense. Keep in mind people, once again, the blocking schemes were very bland as well as the playcalling for Pitt. I think people are overjudging this Oline based on imcomplete "big picture" information. Once Linehan runs his real stuff, we will get a much clearer picture. Bank on it.


LOL I remember thinking that when Chan Gailey took over as OC. Then Chan said, what real stuff. You've seen about 90% of it. lol lol
 
Dol-Fan Dupree said:
Well if Saban's defense is very dependant on DE as everyone who knows of Saban's defense has mentioned then it does make sense he loads up on DEs.

Dupree, there were alot of needs and not much cap room. But we always say that. I just can't believe how weak we are in the middle of the OL and DL. Chester and Bowens weren't replaced. I hope noone judges Saban too harshly though in the first year but he did make some mistakes. I wish Bates could have stayed on as an assistant.
 
When it comes to the O-line, I always put my faith in coaching. I can't truly evaluate each player. Although I have a stinking suspicion that McKinney is a punk. They made the assessment to sign Stockar, keep what they inherited. The O-Line looks bad righ now. However, my faith is still with them, because the biggest move they've made so far was benching their guy. No room for pride or ego here. Did you hear that Jimmy Johnson?
 
Sherif said:
Dupree, there were alot of needs and not much cap room. But we always say that. I just can't believe how weak we are in the middle of the OL and DL. Chester and Bowens weren't replaced. I hope noone judges Saban too harshly though in the first year but he did make some mistakes. I wish Bates could have stayed on as an assistant.

Saban has a certain type of defense. One where having multiple big DL is not as necessary as it seems. From what I have been told having bunch of DEs is important to Saban's defense, which is why he got so many.

We won't know his mistakes till the season is over
 
He wants to switch to a 3-4 look, so he needs to change the personell to people who fit those kinds of roles. Not all at once (Browns are struggling with it mightily) but slowly and surely. Crowder and Roth may end up being the exact type of player for the eventual system. I do agree that fans dont know as much as the coaches, but NFL fans are pretty ****ing astute these days.
 
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