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Information on the 3-4 Defense

chillwill3000

chillwill3000

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Here is some info on the 3-4 defense for anybody that wants to get a little bit smarter on the subject. I have been trying to read up on it, becuase I am defintley no expert, and I see alot of post on here debating what we need to be succesful running it. I know there are different types and variations of the 3-4. This just some basic information I found.

What are the personnel requirements for the 3-4 defense

The front 7 players in the 3-4 D are significantly different from their counterparts in the 4-3. In a nutshell, the DL in the 3-4 are bigger than the DL in the 4-3. The 3-4 OLBs are bigger than 4-3 OLBs because they have to match up against OTs.
  • 3-4 NT is the toughest position to fill. The NT is head-up on the OC and is responsible for defending both A gaps in the running game. He faces constant double-teams and takes a pounding. He must have size, mental and physical toughness, stamina, durability, lateral quickness, and good technique in terms of playing with leverage. If the NT can not hold his ground, the defense is very vulnerable to runs between the tackles. The prototypical 3-4 NT is the Raiders' Ted Washington, who is a massive 6-5 365. Washington was the key to the Patriots win over the Panthers in the 2004 Super Bowl. Stephen Davis ran for a meager 19 yards on his first 9 carries, because Washington effectively stuffed the middle of the line. Other quality NTs include the Steelers' Casey Hampton (6-1 320) and the Chargers' Jamal Williams (6-2 348)<LI id=olb34>3-4 OLBs are the playmakers of the D. They get the glory of picking up sacks on the QB. They must have strong pass rush skills and be able to drop into coverage. If the 3-4 OLBs are unable to consistently apply pressure on the QB, the D is very vulnerable in the passing game. They tend to weigh around 245-270, and many are former 4-3 DE/OLB "tweeners". Many 4-3 DEs are not suited to playing 3-4 OLB because they lack the ability to play in space. The more agile 4-3 RDEs, such as the Jets' John Abraham (6-4 256), are able to play both 4-3 DE and 3-4 OLB. Many 4-3 OLBs are not suited to playing 3-4 OLB because they lack the pass rush skills and the ability to go toe-to-toe with an OT. Examples of solid 3-4 OLBs are the Patriots' Willie McGinest (6-5 270) and the Steelers' Joey Porter (6-2 248)
  • 3-4 DEs tend to weigh around 290-310, and many are former 4-3 DT/DE "tweeners". They must be able to play the run well. The 3-4 DE is responsible for the B and C gaps in the running game and lines up in the 5-technique position, so he is head-up on the OT. It's tough for a 3-4 DE to pick up as many sacks as a 4-3 DE, because a 3-4 DE doesn't have the freedom to go willy nilly upfield. He has to protect the LBs in order for the 3-4 to work. Panthers' 4-3 DE Julius Peppers said that he didn't like playing 3-4 DE, because he felt like he was essentially a DT. Unlike Peppers (6-6 290), most 4-3 DEs are not suited to playing 3-4 DE, because they lack the size and ability to hold up against the run. Examples of solid 3-4 DEs are the Patriots' Richard Seymour (6-6 310), the Steelers' Aaron Smith (6-5 300), and the Raiders' Bobby Hamilton (6-5 285)
  • 3-4 ILBs must be stout in run support. Because there are only 3 DL to match up against 5 OL, they must be able to stack and shed an unblocked offensive lineman in the running game. How hard is it to play 3-4 ILB? Check out this telling quote by All-Pro Ray Lewis, who is glad to be finished playing 3-4 ILB (the Ravens are switching from the 3-4 to the 4-3 and 46 for the 2005 season):
    "We're in the 46 defense now, and finally, finally again, I get to play football," said Lewis. "My job is not to take on offensive linemen, but to make running backs not want to play against me"​
    Examples of solid 3-4 ILBs are the former Ravens' Ed Hartwell (6-1 250) and the Raiders' Danny Clark (6-2 245)
What are the advantages of the 3-4 defense

The offense does not know which of the 2 OLBs is going to rush the QB, as both of the OLBs are in a 2-point stance. This creates the following advantages:
  1. It's harder for the offensive linemen to correctly determine their blocking assignments before the snap and execute
  2. It puts more mental pressure on the QB. E.g. the Patriots did a masterful job in disguising their D against 2004 MVP Peyton Manning in the 2005 playoffs. Manning came unglued mentally, and his frustration seemed to affect his performance
With the growing number of defenses running the 3-4 D, it will be interesting to see whether its effectiveness decreases as offenses get used to facing it.
 
Quarterbacks in a daze from the '3-4 defense' maze

Quarterbacks in a daze from the '3-4 defense' maze
http://www.usatoday.com/sports/football/nfl/2008-01-03-defense-cover_N.htm
As Belichick's creativity suggests, not all 3-4 defenses are created equally.

That was the gist of the phone call from Chargers linebacker Shawne Merriman to Cowboys linebacker DeMarcus Ware in the offseason after former San Diego defensive coordinator Wade Phillips became Dallas head coach and former Chargers defensive backs coach Brian Stewart was hired as coordinator.

"I told him that he had some (great) coaches coming his way," Merriman recalled this week, "and that he was going to love it."

Ware played in a 3-4 during his first two NFL seasons under Bill Parcells, but it was a vastly different scheme. Parcells' 3-4 was built on power; Phillips' scheme emphasizes speed and is more aggressive. "Instead of a big boy's game," Stewart says, "we made it a finesse, go-get-em type of game."

One of Stewart's first tasks in introducing the scheme was producing a highlight DVD of the Chargers defense with clips of big plays by different players in various situations. San Diego led the NFL with 61 sacks in 2006, so the message was more flashing neon than subliminal: You can do this, too.
Players quickly bought in. "It's totally, totally different," inside linebacker

Bradie James says. "I think you can see from our body language. We're actually having fun."

To adjust, James, a fifth-year pro, dropped more than 20 pounds after weighing 260 last year.

"Last year, I couldn't play the position at the weight I am now," James says.

"I wouldn't have made it to Game 8. Now I don't have to wrestle with 300-pound (linemen in the trenches). I can play linebacker from sideline to sideline."

Dallas' 13th-ranked defense faded down the stretch last season, allowing 425 yards and 33 points a game as the Cowboys lost three of their final four.

Their overall ninth-ranked unit this season rated third in sacks in the NFL with 46, an increase of 12 from 2006.

Ware fulfilled Merriman's projection. He enjoys the scheme and tied for third in the NFL with a career-high 14 sacks. "It's not just Xs and Os," Stewart says. "You've got to have some Jessies and Joes — as in cats who can play."
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I always wondered what some of the basic differences were, thank you for sharing that. It will make me a more knowledgeable fan thats for sure. I wonder if we stick with our 3-4 or switch back to the 4-3. I kinda like the 4-3 but not sure if its better for us. For a team getting younger or that seems to be the plan, the 3-4 seems a little more complicated and out of the norm for most players. I guess we'll see what parcells wants to run in 08.
 
Defensive linemen do the dirty work in 3-4

Defensive linemen do the dirty work in 3-4
http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/columns/story?id=1946758
Indeed, for 3-4 linemen, the action in the playmaking department rarely is fast and furious. All 3-4 teams use some style of the "two-gap" technique, which calls for the nose tackle to fill the "A" gaps on either side of the center and for the ends to take care of the "B" and "C" gaps between the guards and tackles and outside the tackle, respectively. The idea is to fill both gaps and delay, if not prevent, blockers from reaching the second level, thereby creating open lanes to the football for the inside linebackers.

Pittsburgh's linemen do lots of stunting (looping) and penetrating, forcing the ballcarrier to commit to a hole. The Patriots linemen, on the other hand, are asked to simply hold their positions and tie up blockers. In general, linemen in the 3-4 often aren't in the best position to make tackles, hence their typically low totals. And since they aren't shooting through gaps like 4-3 linemen, they don't make very many stops behind the line of scrimmage, either. That's particularly true for the nose tackles, who deal with more of a variety of double teams than their 4-3 counterparts, who are already aligned in gaps.
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The Cowboys Beat: Grading the Parcells Era

The Cowboys Beat: Grading the Parcells Era
http://www.cowboysbeat.com/ReadArchives.php?Month=6&Year=2007
The In-Between.

Another major change made during the Parcells era was a shift to the 3-4 defense. I have full confidence that the defense will strong this year, but the 4-3 employed under Dave Campo was also a very good defense. And, while I think the defense this year could be the best the Cowboys have fielded this decade, much of that is because of the Wade Phillips style of playing the 3-4.

Bill Parcells played toward the weakness of the 3-4. He stressed stopping the run first, but the 3-4 is a defense that is inherently strong against the pass and weak against the run compared to the 4-3 defense. I prefer playing towards the strength of the defense, and that means shutting down the passing game.

Final Grade: B-
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Thanks for the info, but can someone explain what are the 3-4 basic disadvantages and the 4-3 basic advantages/disadvantages?
 
Big disadvantage of a 3-4 is finding a NT.They are very very hard to find and even more hard to develop.

vince wilfork first time probowler had an interview where he talks about taking 3 yrs to understand develop technique to play this position.He is 25 and one of the youngest NT in the league.FA in 09 .

he basically said BB coached him personally for 2 yrs before he can play NT in probowl level.He also lost his gut as most NT get tired in the 4th quater and had to be in rotation and come out of pass rush down.He said this year he worked on diet and lossing his gut to get most atheletic and last 60 minutes.

it was interesting interview as we do not see alot of pure NT players and how they develop most are bigger DT playing in presure based scheme .
 
Thanks for the info on the 3-4 Defense,that helps me understand it better
 
I personally hate the 3-4 defense, I think it's crap. I'm hoping that after Sporano evaluates the team and the players available in the draft, he'll have us go to the 4-3. It fits our team better, and it fits the best draft talent better. That way we can get Glen Dorsey and Curtis Lofton with our first two picks and really sure up the defense. If we stay 3-4, neither of those two are viable picks because they're too small for the 3-4.
 
Dont be so sure that we will run the 3-4. Sparano said we will make the system fit the players. Is our talent geared to 4-3 or 3-4, probably 4- is my guess.
 
why dont we run a little of both like when our D was the **** when zach led the nfl in tackles and jason won DMVP

I dont understand last year we ran alot more 4-3 because of the injurys we had to our secondary and linebackers and it sucked the big one if we go back to 3-4 with some 4-3 our D could be good like in 06
 
JamesBW43 said:
I personally hate the 3-4 defense, I think it's crap. I'm hoping that after Sporano evaluates the team and the players available in the draft, he'll have us go to the 4-3. It fits our team better, and it fits the best draft talent better. That way we can get Glen Dorsey and Curtis Lofton with our first two picks and really sure up the defense. If we stay 3-4, neither of those two are viable picks because they're too small for the 3-4.
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One of the greatest defenses I have ever seen played the 3-4. The Giants with Jim Burt, an under sized NT at 260 lbs were brilliant, although they did have 4 great LB's. The 46 D of the Bears also played some 3-4 alignments if my memory serves me correctly. When Perry (330 lbs) wasn't in the line up didn't McMichael play NT. Baumhower of the fins, and Krumrie of the Bengals were also small NT's.

Anyway the real point to my question was that those great defenses had small (in weight) mobile NT's. LB's were a little smaller and O lines were a lot smaller. Did NT's get bigger due to O lines getting bigger or visa versa?
 
phinphever said:
Dont be so sure that we will run the 3-4. Sparano said we will make the system fit the players. Is our talent geared to 4-3 or 3-4, probably 4- is my guess.
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this is true, and i hope he goes by what he says... what he and the staff believes will fit us best. as of now, i am scared to run the 3-4
 
I am Bane said:
this is true, and i hope he goes by what he says... what he and the staff believes will fit us best. as of now, i am scared to run the 3-4
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Before FA and the draft, I dont think we could run the 3-4 effectively at the moment. We just dont have the personnel to do a job at the mo.
 
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