Interesting read on the best and worst QBs

[DolfinDave]

Ran across this interesting study of the best and worst QBs of all time while I was randomly searching on a really good site for football stats call pro-football-reference.com

http://www.pro-football-reference.co...ex.php?paged=4

(The first study starts almost directly in the middle of the page and is titled 'The worst QB of all time?' Start there, and when you get to the end of that one, move on up to the next one which is 'The best QB of all time?' It is kind of long, so bare with it)

The guy takes stuff like passing yards per attempt and lots of other stats to measure how effective and ineffective every QB has been. He combines their stats for their whole career and assigns them a value. I didn't get too much into how he compiled all of the stuff, but I did find it very interesting.

Of course Marino is at the top of the list of the greatest QBs ever. He is second to Steve Young. The guy mentions how many times west coast QBs are on the list of the greatest seasons and careers. I think the west coast offense made Young and he is second tier compared to Marino.

But Marino isn't the only reason I brought this up. He starts by showing who the worst QBs of all time are. And guess who is very high up on that list. Our current starting QB Joey Harrington. He is high on the all time list and the list for worst seasons ever.

That is the reason some of us didn't understand all of the support Harrington was getting before the season started and even now. He has never showed any kind of ability that would make me think he is as good as Culpepper. You don't show up on this list by accident. And I know his teams were overall not good, but come on. If you are a decent QB, you shouldn't be appearing that high on this list even with a poor team around you.

 

[PhinsRock]

You say the West Coast Offense was the only reason Steve YOung was higher than Marino, but you won't acknowledge that Detroit might have been the reason for Joey's problems. You're not being exactly fair. Sounds pretty biased against Joey to me. So we already know you're a Joey hater, and you want to influence our opinion of him? Not.

 

[DoggPhin]

He is second to Steve Young. The guy mentions how many times west coast QBs are on the list of the greatest seasons and careers. I think the west coast offense made Young and he is second tier compared to Marino.

I think you answered your own question, and contradicted yourself in the same post. QB Stats are completely situational and, Young was a product of the WCO and Jerry Rice. Marino was made by Shula, and guys like Dwight Stephenson, Roy Foster, one of the best O-Lines in the NFL ... ya know, those guys who hardly get mentioned whenever someone talks big about QB Stats! That takes nothing away from the great QB's and they're usually the first to give credit where credit is due, listen to a few HOF inductions sometime.

Just more silly stat crap for the fantasy league kiddies. Sheer imbecile stuff, gee who is "better" than who, when they played on totally different teams in different situations. Apples and Oranges my friend! Give Harrington an O-Line like Marino had,.. or a great System like Bill Walsh and the Niners Dynasty ... you might see a difference in his QB stats. :rolleyes2

 

[NorFlaFin]

Troy Aikman is BELOW Jeff George, Neil O'Donnell and Ken O'Brien.

Heck even when this dude's scoring system removes Aikman 3 worst years he still only 26th on the list.

Think, I'd rather SB rings then fantasy stats.

 

[JMarino]

Trent Dilfer is on the list of most horrible QBs and he has a superbowl ring.

 

[Stitches]

You say the West Coast Offense was the only reason Steve YOung was higher than Marino, but you won't acknowledge that Detroit might have been the reason for Joey's problems. You're not being exactly fair. Sounds pretty biased against Joey to me. So we already know you're a Joey hater, and you want to influence our opinion of him? Not.

I thought the Lions ran a modified west coast offense at least one year when Joey was there?

 

[Stitches]

Trent Dilfer is on the list of most horrible QBs and he has a superbowl ring.

He's never been really good, which is why he has been a back up so much. He is very smart, and a great person to learn from, but the production just isn't there when he goes on the field. I believe having one of the best defenses ever, and a great running back helped him get that ring.

 

[fInbred]

great post! that guy who made up those lists was dead on. everybody knows that the lions were doing fine until harrington got in there and messed everything up. and that the 49ers were stinking up the joint until steve young took over for that loser they were trying to win games with for the 9 or 10 years prior. this is concrete stuff man!

 

[BillyBean]

I

Just more silly stat crap for the fantasy league kiddies. Sheer imbecile stuff, gee who is "better" than who, when they played on totally different teams in different situations. Apples and Oranges my friend! Give Harrington an O-Line like Marino had,.. or a great System like Bill Walsh and the Niners Dynasty ... you might see a difference in his QB stats. :rolleyes2

Harrington was in the West Coast system.

Give ANY quarterback an Oline that gives him all day to throw and he'll look good.

Joey played poorly even considering the circumstances. You're just trying to explain it away because you like him.

 

[BillyBean]

I thought the Lions ran a modified west coast offense at least one year when Joey was there?

They ran the WCO the WHOLE time he was there.

They figured that since he can't throw deep that they'd give him dink passes with the WCO.

They kept waiting around for him to get accurate enough to hit guys in stride on a regular basis, but it never happened.

His supporters will tell you that he had so many coaches in so few years, that's why you should cut him a break. But they won't tell you that Mornhinweg was Mariucci's OC in San Fran and basically installed the system, paving the way for Mariucci to come in and look awesome in the same system.

Only problem was that Management took Joey and forced the Lions to put all their eggs in one QB basket.

Same system, first year of it (2001) with a rookie coach, Charlie Batch (with worse receivers for the system than Joey ever had) put up better numbers than Joey ever did in the system.

Millen's the moron who relied on Joey for 4 years and that's a big reason the Lions sucked and still suck. (note to Joey Supporters: "big reason" doesn't mean "only reason")

When you spend over 10% of the salary cap on a QB that stinks, you're NOT going to have a good team. The same supporters of Joey that were calling for "a better supporting cast" for Joey, ragged on all the attempts to get him receivers that could "catch the ball" (3 straight years of drafting 1st round, high first round, receivers) and said NOTHING about the salary hit Joey was representing. Only Favre was being paid more. And Joey was NOWHERE near Favre (unless you believed his supporters, who apparently thought Joey was just right around the corner from being the next BF).

 

[DolfinDave]

You say the West Coast Offense was the only reason Steve YOung was higher than Marino, but you won't acknowledge that Detroit might have been the reason for Joey's problems. You're not being exactly fair. Sounds pretty biased against Joey to me. So we already know you're a Joey hater, and you want to influence our opinion of him? Not.

I did so acknowledge the poor team around Harrington. And I said you still shouldn't be that high on the list of all time worst QBs. I can understand him struggling and I would expect that. But to be one of the all time worst QBs is an accomplishment that you are a part of, not just the poor team around you.

 

[DolfinDave]

Just more silly stat crap for the fantasy league kiddies. Sheer imbecile stuff, gee who is "better" than who, when they played on totally different teams in different situations. Apples and Oranges my friend! Give Harrington an O-Line like Marino had,.. or a great System like Bill Walsh and the Niners Dynasty ... you might see a difference in his QB stats. :rolleyes2

I totally agree that every QB would look a lot better behind a good oline and probably the greatest offensive system ever. But come one, no matter how bad your team is, you can't be that high on that list. His team couldn't have been some of the worst ones ever. And these stats are TDs, INTs, and yards per attempt. I think all of those stats have a good bit to do with how good your running game is. But reguardless of how bad Harrington's were, he can't be that bad. There is little excuse for being that high on the list of worst ever.

 

[DolfinDave]

Troy Aikman is BELOW Jeff George, Neil O'Donnell and Ken O'Brien.

Heck even when this dude's scoring system removes Aikman 3 worst years he still only 26th on the list.

Think, I'd rather SB rings then fantasy stats.

When will you guys realize that great teams win Super Bowls and not great QBs all by themselves. Come on. Aikman had a great team around him which included the all time leading rusher in NFL history. Those 'fantasy' stats are freakin TDs and INTs. Those are pretty relevant stats and tell you a lot, not all, about how well the QB performed. Notice how Terry Bradshaw isn't anywhere near the top of the list and he has 4 rings. That just shows you that you can have an average QB, surrounded by a great team, and win Super Bowls. Just because a guy has a ring doesn't mean he was great and put up great numbers. And just because a guy doesn't have a ring doesn't mean he didn't perform well. It takes very good TEAMS to get rings.

 

[DolfinDave]

He's never been really good, which is why he has been a back up so much. He is very smart, and a great person to learn from, but the production just isn't there when he goes on the field. I believe having one of the best defenses ever, and a great running back helped him get that ring.

Exactly. Great defenses and a solid running game are the best recipes for winning Super Bowls. Every team that has ever won the Super Bowl has had a defense ranked in the top 10 in the league in points allowed. You can't just look at the number of rings a guy has and conclude he was a great QB.

 

[NorFlaFin]

:shakeno: