Intresting Article on Porter's POA win rate | FinHeaven - Miami Dolphins Forums

Intresting Article on Porter's POA win rate

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From the New York Times blog:

http://fifthdown.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/04/22/what-parcells-should-tell-joey-porter/

What Parcells Should Tell Joey Porter

By KC Joyner

The Football Scientist, KC Joyner, is a Fifth Down contributor. His latest book, Scientific Football 2009, is available for pre-order.


One of the underrated aspects of Bill Parcells’ coaching methods is how he was able to prod talented veterans into higher levels of performance. My favorite story along this line was how Parcells handled Harry Carson when he arrived in New York in 1979. Carson had been decorated with both an All Pro and a Pro Bowl berth the season before Parcells’ arrival, but that didn’t stop Parcells from throwing out a challenge to Carson to become an even better linebacker. Carson stepped up his game by making six All Pro and five Pro Bowl teams (and an eventual trip to the Hall of Fame) while under Parcells’ guidance.
I mention this because after reviewing the Dolphins’ defensive performance metrics for “Scientific Football 2009,” I am of the mindset that Parcells should throw down a similar challenge to Joey Porter. Porter was a second-team All Pro and a starter on the AFC Pro Bowl roster in large part because of his 17.5 sacks. That total wasn’t an anomaly; nine of those sacks were of the one-on-one variety and were achieved via an impressive set of pass-rush techniques.
What is troubling about Porter’s numbers is his run-stuffing ability.

He faced 82 Point of Attack (POA) runs in 2008 and defeated his blocker on only eight of those plays. That 9.8% POA win rate was the second lowest among the Dolphins’ defensive linemen/linebackers, and his 5.6 yards per attempt on those runs was the most of any Miami DL/LB. To put this into further perspective, consider that Matt Roth, the Fins’ other starting outside linebacker, had a 24.6% POA win rate on 61 POA runs and allowed only 3.5 YPA.
It’s not as if elite pass rushers can’t post top totals in this area, either. Terrell Suggs, one of the best pass-rushing OLBs in the league, posted a POA win rate of 33.9% and a YPA of 3.3 last year. He is the upper end of run stuffing, pass-rush specialists, but there are others of his ilk (DeMarcus Ware for example) whose run-defense metrics were also markedly superior to Porter’s.
Parcells isn’t a head coach anymore, but the Miami players say he is still a world champion button pusher whose presence is felt through the entire organization. That probably means Porter better ready himself for some kind of motivational tactic regarding his run defense, because if history is any indicator, Parcells will be sending one his way this off-season.

*Interesting
 
we all know he isnt good vs the run

Well, I always thought that Joey Porter was commendable against the run but obviously, according to this stat, he is pretty awful. Matt Roth is respectable against the run, which I knew, but it's nice to have that stat support it.
 
I'm definitely buying Joyners new book when it comes out. It will be interesting to see how all of the Dolphins players did last year statistically.
 
We all know JP isn't a run stuffer, but in you have ever played a down of football you know these stats are junk. I'm not sure this guy understands what Porter's position asks him to do. There are more roles for an OLB/DE than just run stuffing and pass rushing.
 
We all know JP isn't a run stuffer, but in you have ever played a down of football you know these stats are junk. I'm not sure this guy understands what Porter's position asks him to do. There are more roles for an OLB/DE than just run stuffing and pass rushing.

I am not sure if you understand how bad Porter was against the run. Maybe if you had played football you would't be so quick to dismiss the article. While I agree that stats can be misleading and a pash rush is the priority of the WOLB, Porter was so bad at stopping the run that teams game planned the very fact against Miami. We all want guys who can pass block/run block, pass rush/run stop, power run/be elusive but they are rare athletes. I would trade Porter right now to anyone mislead by sack stats against poor teams into thinking he was any good, if there is anyone stupid enough. Oh wait, you said stats don't matter, run stopping doesn't matter, fighting with you coach doesnt matter, not showing up in the playoffs doesn't matter... so why is he so great again?
 
I am not sure if you understand how bad Porter was against the run. Maybe if you had played football you would't be so quick to dismiss the article. While I agree that stats can be misleading and a pash rush is the priority of the WOLB, Porter was so bad at stopping the run that teams game planned the very fact against Miami. We all want guys who can pass block/run block, pass rush/run stop, power run/be elusive but they are rare athletes. I would trade Porter right now to anyone mislead by sack stats against poor teams into thinking he was any good, if there is anyone stupid enough. Oh wait, you said stats don't matter, run stopping doesn't matter, fighting with you coach doesnt matter, not showing up in the playoffs doesn't matter... so why is he so great again?

I agree with your comment in many ways. The whole point of this article is that even a good player can become great under the right guidance. Joey Porter has always been known to be one of the best linebackers while he has been active. While it is great to see him achieve in the pass rushing game, it would be great to see him perform better during runs. I don't think it is a lack of skill but it is a lack of effort on his part since the coaching staff made a pre-determined decision to cast him as our main pass rusher.

Is Porter a good linebacker?

Of course it is and if you deny it then you will most likely be lyign to yourself. His performance on the field speaks to itself as he was able to make some solid stops in third down for us and truck over that player for a sack during the 49rs win.

If we trade porter then who will replace him? The prospect of trading him for some good value is great but how will his replacement perform?
 
I'm definitely buying Joyners new book when it comes out. It will be interesting to see how all of the Dolphins players did last year statistically.

Don't waste your time. Porter is not very good against the run, but KC Joyner's stats are not needed to know that

THIS IS FOOTBALL. leave the ***** stats aside!!

Joyner take his little stats and stick the up his---. His cornerbacks stats are the worse. There is just NO general way to rate a CB, and this guy thinks he knows all about the position while practically ridiculing some of the best in the league

Football scientist?has he ever even played football in a professional way?



We all know JP isn't a run stuffer, but in you have ever played a down of football you know these stats are junk. I'm not sure this guy understands what Porter's position asks him to do. There are more roles for an OLB/DE than just run stuffing and pass rushing.

:up:
 
I am not sure if you understand how bad Porter was against the run. Maybe if you had played football you would't be so quick to dismiss the article. While I agree that stats can be misleading and a pash rush is the priority of the WOLB, Porter was so bad at stopping the run that teams game planned the very fact against Miami. We all want guys who can pass block/run block, pass rush/run stop, power run/be elusive but they are rare athletes. I would trade Porter right now to anyone mislead by sack stats against poor teams into thinking he was any good, if there is anyone stupid enough. Oh wait, you said stats don't matter, run stopping doesn't matter, fighting with you coach doesnt matter, not showing up in the playoffs doesn't matter... so why is he so great again?

I haven't missed any games, and yes I have played ball, in fact the same position he does. Porter plays contain on the edge a lot, and being that you have no clue what that means, I'll just stop here. I hope you get to watch a game or two this year. Maybe try and focus on what the D does as a unit, and where players move to.
 
Is Porter a good linebacker?

When did I say he wasn't good? My point is that he isn't great, or immune to the critism he rightfully deserved. 2 years ago he played Sam and teams ran it at him all day long, and last year at Will they ran at him all day long again. I want a defence that teams have to worry about, and that starts with stopping the run. Miami is building a grinding offence based on power running, but its kinda hard to play ball control when you give up over 5 yards a carry on the weak side. Trade him now while his value is high. I agree that his replacement wont get 17+ sacks next year, (although he probably wont either), but any stiff can do better against the run.
 
Trade him now while his value is high. I agree that his replacement wont get 17+ sacks next year, (although he probably wont either), but any stiff can do better against the run.
If we actually could get a decent offer for him I'm sure we would trade him.
I love what he did for us last year but I wouldn't be adverse to getting more picks.
 
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