lol
Ireland strikes again in Canada?
- Thread starter finfan54
- Start date
lol
dlockz
Hall Of Famer
I never rated this thread one star.
Sounds about right. Pat Riley schemes to nab Lebron and Bosh. Jeff Ireland raids Canada.
No wonder Bill Belichick was comfortable to play the Pebble Beach pro am this week. I'm picturing his divisional competition in one of those Royal Canadian Mounted Police unis.
No wonder Bill Belichick was comfortable to play the Pebble Beach pro am this week. I'm picturing his divisional competition in one of those Royal Canadian Mounted Police unis.
dol-phan007
Money is Power
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He is 1" shorter and 21 pounds lighter than Brandon Jacobs. He has good size.
BAMAPHIN 22
FinHeaven Elite
The size of this guy is impressive... Biggest question may be with his character... Is he worth the risk?
SabanHater
***** in the House!
lol.
ckparrothead
Premium Member
Not to do a giant write-up on a guy who is not really talented enough to end up the star of our football team or anything like that, but here's what I see:
1. Big time talent coming out of High School in Canada, ran for 308 yards and 2 TDs including the game-winner for Canada in the NFL Global Junior Championship. Signed a letter of intent at Rutgers but disqualified on academics. Big time JUCO transfer, rated the #2 JUCO transfer prospect in all the United States in 2007 after a couple years at North Dakota State College of Science where he was forced to play because of the academic problems that disqualified him from playing at Rutgers. Left Graceland University in the NAIA after one year where he rushed for 993 yards on 168 carries with 16 TDs in only just over 6 games before hurting his knee in the 7th game. Obviously he had nothing left to prove at the NAIA level.
2. Character has been a big problem throughout his career. Parents were barely in the picture growing up, never took school serious (says he regrets that the most), one of those guys who says he doesn't give a damn what people think of him. Got into fights with the BC Lions before being traded to Edmonton. Coming out of NAIA he blew off CFL evaluation camp to focus on his pro day. Arrested following a fight at a night club in London.
3. Looked a lot better in Edmonton than his tape as a BC Lion. Edmonton runs more zone stuff and he showed an aptitude for the cutback game. Also his legs looked stronger as he could sit and explode better. Pad level in traffic improved a good deal. Was not necessarily a higher effort player, though.
4. Shows cradle-level instincts for setting up and shaking defenders in the open field. What I mean by cradle-level is, his ability to lock on to the most threatening defensive player, identify his leverage, and develop a plan for setting him up and juking him, is instantaneous. It's an instinct thing, you don't have time to think about it. This is something guys tend to have or not by the time they get to this level. I can think of two examples off the top of my head. Against Hamilton he broke into the second level off a draw designed to go left but the hole in the lines opened up on the backside so he made the cutback to his right and broke into the secondary where a number of secondary players were closing the net on him. He identified the player that was most threatening and developed a plan for juking him while that defensive player was still 12 yards away. Since he'd already cut right and was running toward the defensive player, he made a sharp cut to his left to get the player reacting, and then made another sharp cut to the right, snapping the defender's ankles in half and breaking into the clear. Another instance he caught a ball in the backfield and had a defender bearing on him within 3 yards by the time he could get his head around and see him, he lowered his pads and broke the defender's tackle and by the time he got the guy to release his shoe, he had another defender within 4 yards bearing on him, and he instantaneously set up a cut to the inside, breaking that guy's ankles before being tackled by 3rd and 4th defenders. You'd be surprised how many NFL runners (mostly depth players) don't have instincts for things like that. Ronnie Brown was notorious for not knowing how to get away from defenders in the open field.
5. Not a brute force player. He doesn't have Brandon Jacobs' stab-you-in-the-heart mentality. Then again, neither did Brandon Jacobs when he got to the NFL, he had to embrace his strengths as a player and that physicality developed over time. Messam was more physical in his running style in Edmonton than with the BC Lions. You're not going to play him at fullback. You play him at tailback. He's always looking to shorten the distance between himself and the end zone (gets north-south) and isn't afraid to run through people depending on the situation, but otherwise he's looking to run around you and avoid heavy contact (which is a good thing).
6. Pad level was good by the time he got to Edmonton. There's a difference between being 6'4" and having bad pad level. The key is, don't look at him when he's running in the open field. That's a red herring. I could give two ****s about how upright you look in the open field when nobody's around you. You should run however you need to run to go the fastest you can. You have to look at pad level heading into a hit, and in those instances I don't have much problem with his pad level and it shows as he produces yards after contact at the CFL level. I'll give you an example. The play I talked about above where he catches the ball and has about zero time from when he can get his head around and see the defender coming to when that defender is on him, he reacted instantly by cutting sharply north-south and lowering his front shoulder into contact. The guy bearing down on him was 4 inches shorter and was already lowering his pads for the kill by the time Messam could even see him, he then gets so low in his tackle attempt that he leads with the crown of his helmet and has his eyes off Messam, and yet you freeze frame at the first moment of contact and Messam's front side shoulder is only a little bit higher than the defender's shoulder pads. That's why Messam was able to shake off the tackle and then go on to juke one more defender before being brought down by the third and fourth tacklers.
7. It's well-recognized that the height can be a curse in terms of pad level but it can also be a blessing. You may have a tough time getting your pads low enough to break contact cleanly and create a missed tackle, but defenders also have a tough time stopping you from getting extra yardage after contact because of your linear size. This is why guys like Cam Newton (6'6"), Tim Tebow (6'3") and Brandon Jacobs (6'4") are so effective on the goal line. You're trying to stop those guys from getting that 4 or 5 feet and it's tough. Those three together scored 19 TDs on 39 Goal-to-Go runs this year. That's an insane percentage.
8. Vision and the quickness of his decision making and instincts are some things that intrigue me with Messam. As I said before he makes decisions quickly about how he's going to handle defenders in the open field. But, he also senses the cutback lane pretty well and is able to key on defenders for his cutback reads that are obscured by the trash in front of him. It makes you wonder if it's a coincidence that some of the guys that showed much more aptitude for the cutback game than other ground schemes, guys like Terrell Davis, Arian Foster and Tyrone Wheatley, were a little bit taller players. Not saying they all were, but some of the guys that were questioned about whether they'd be as productive in non-cutback schemes definitely were. Tyrone Wheatley was not at all successful until he got to Oakland and found Bill Callahan's zone cutback scheme. Messam doesn't get cute and always cuts back to the end zone as quickly as he can, shortening the distance to paydirt. Especially look at his work near the goal line, he doesn't mess around. The thing he also does is set up his blocks. Look at the screen play I link below. He runs outside of his blockers so that he can cut back against the grain to the inside of the blockers and create more yardage.
9. Does not show elite level elusiveness, burst or physicality, but has a top gear. The physicality isn't as big a deal to me because like I said, that can develop, and in the mean time his sheer size is going to create bad form tackling from secondary players because many of those guys just don't know how to approach really large high speed ball carriers, hence all the commotion with the new generation of Tight Ends coming out. I was the one that compared him to Lawrence Phillips. Phillips had a little bit better burst and elusiveness than Messam, but Messam may have better vision for the cutback, and of course one would hope he's not going to get arrested as much as Phillips. Messam measured about 6'4" and 250 lbs at his pro day, ran in the 4.4's to 4.5's with a 33 inch vertical, near as I can tell.
10. Coming from the CFL you have plenty of blocking reps. I watch him block and sometimes he doesn't quite explode into the defender the way you need, but he does generally display good form and feet, like he knows what he's doing back there. His size alone lets him do more against bigger D-Ends and Rush LBs than a guy like Reggie Bush, and I think he's a more aware protector than Daniel Thomas. He just needs to be coached out of the flat-footedness you see every now and then as he's leading into contact. Not that you want him to get off balance, either.
Some plays I liked...
Leveling a defender blocking on a WR screen for Adarius Bowman:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lQbmAzLD6go&feature=player_detailpage#t=102s
Blocking a bigger Rush End long enough to get the pass off:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kx7ReW-WTac&feature=player_detailpage#t=77s
More blocking, two plays consecutively:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l97SbR4-eYI&feature=player_detailpage#t=23s
More blocking:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rOjRrlCte1Q&feature=player_detailpage#t=111s
More blocking:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GOJpdth0L30&feature=player_detailpage#t=245s
Sees the safety through a crowd, makes the cutback for a touchdown:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n_xzXsP2vSY&feature=player_detailpage#t=110s
Quick open field decision making and ability to juke defenders one on one:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n_xzXsP2vSY&feature=player_detailpage#t=178s
Two plays, catch-n-run alluded to before, then a zone cutback TD:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n_xzXsP2vSY&feature=player_detailpage#t=304s
Quickness of decision-making, sharpness of cuts, pads are literally Ricky Ray's waist level at the cut in backfield:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QbWLQ-iQIiE&feature=player_detailpage#t=92s
Another good run, typical stretch play:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QbWLQ-iQIiE&feature=player_detailpage#t=139s
Fumble, caught trying do too much after contact. Critical moment of the game. Goes back to character/intelligence issues:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QbWLQ-iQIiE&feature=player_detailpage#t=301s
Again if you’re looking for pad level while still navigating traffic, look at this and tell me there’s a problem:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GOJpdth0L30&feature=player_detailpage#t=291s
Another nice run, jukes the defender in the open field after making the right cutback:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e2ZAINcO580&feature=player_detailpage#t=107s
Another TD off the zone cutback, look how he squeezes that crease:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e2ZAINcO580&feature=player_detailpage#t=143s
Three plays, a red zone cutback TD, a tackle break for big gain, then finding the crease from nothing:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8yV2_sxqLj8&feature=player_detailpage#t=56s
A rare screen play, sets up his blockers for the cutback and makes a big gain:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8yV2_sxqLj8&feature=player_detailpage#t=203s
Really nice play, nice tackle-breaking, stiff-arm:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4d5YOp7c9n8&feature=player_detailpage#t=90s
Look at the physicality on this run, really nice:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4d5YOp7c9n8&feature=player_detailpage#t=162s
Incidentally, Adarius Bowman NEEDS to be given a shot at the NFL.
1. Big time talent coming out of High School in Canada, ran for 308 yards and 2 TDs including the game-winner for Canada in the NFL Global Junior Championship. Signed a letter of intent at Rutgers but disqualified on academics. Big time JUCO transfer, rated the #2 JUCO transfer prospect in all the United States in 2007 after a couple years at North Dakota State College of Science where he was forced to play because of the academic problems that disqualified him from playing at Rutgers. Left Graceland University in the NAIA after one year where he rushed for 993 yards on 168 carries with 16 TDs in only just over 6 games before hurting his knee in the 7th game. Obviously he had nothing left to prove at the NAIA level.
2. Character has been a big problem throughout his career. Parents were barely in the picture growing up, never took school serious (says he regrets that the most), one of those guys who says he doesn't give a damn what people think of him. Got into fights with the BC Lions before being traded to Edmonton. Coming out of NAIA he blew off CFL evaluation camp to focus on his pro day. Arrested following a fight at a night club in London.
3. Looked a lot better in Edmonton than his tape as a BC Lion. Edmonton runs more zone stuff and he showed an aptitude for the cutback game. Also his legs looked stronger as he could sit and explode better. Pad level in traffic improved a good deal. Was not necessarily a higher effort player, though.
4. Shows cradle-level instincts for setting up and shaking defenders in the open field. What I mean by cradle-level is, his ability to lock on to the most threatening defensive player, identify his leverage, and develop a plan for setting him up and juking him, is instantaneous. It's an instinct thing, you don't have time to think about it. This is something guys tend to have or not by the time they get to this level. I can think of two examples off the top of my head. Against Hamilton he broke into the second level off a draw designed to go left but the hole in the lines opened up on the backside so he made the cutback to his right and broke into the secondary where a number of secondary players were closing the net on him. He identified the player that was most threatening and developed a plan for juking him while that defensive player was still 12 yards away. Since he'd already cut right and was running toward the defensive player, he made a sharp cut to his left to get the player reacting, and then made another sharp cut to the right, snapping the defender's ankles in half and breaking into the clear. Another instance he caught a ball in the backfield and had a defender bearing on him within 3 yards by the time he could get his head around and see him, he lowered his pads and broke the defender's tackle and by the time he got the guy to release his shoe, he had another defender within 4 yards bearing on him, and he instantaneously set up a cut to the inside, breaking that guy's ankles before being tackled by 3rd and 4th defenders. You'd be surprised how many NFL runners (mostly depth players) don't have instincts for things like that. Ronnie Brown was notorious for not knowing how to get away from defenders in the open field.
5. Not a brute force player. He doesn't have Brandon Jacobs' stab-you-in-the-heart mentality. Then again, neither did Brandon Jacobs when he got to the NFL, he had to embrace his strengths as a player and that physicality developed over time. Messam was more physical in his running style in Edmonton than with the BC Lions. You're not going to play him at fullback. You play him at tailback. He's always looking to shorten the distance between himself and the end zone (gets north-south) and isn't afraid to run through people depending on the situation, but otherwise he's looking to run around you and avoid heavy contact (which is a good thing).
6. Pad level was good by the time he got to Edmonton. There's a difference between being 6'4" and having bad pad level. The key is, don't look at him when he's running in the open field. That's a red herring. I could give two ****s about how upright you look in the open field when nobody's around you. You should run however you need to run to go the fastest you can. You have to look at pad level heading into a hit, and in those instances I don't have much problem with his pad level and it shows as he produces yards after contact at the CFL level. I'll give you an example. The play I talked about above where he catches the ball and has about zero time from when he can get his head around and see the defender coming to when that defender is on him, he reacted instantly by cutting sharply north-south and lowering his front shoulder into contact. The guy bearing down on him was 4 inches shorter and was already lowering his pads for the kill by the time Messam could even see him, he then gets so low in his tackle attempt that he leads with the crown of his helmet and has his eyes off Messam, and yet you freeze frame at the first moment of contact and Messam's front side shoulder is only a little bit higher than the defender's shoulder pads. That's why Messam was able to shake off the tackle and then go on to juke one more defender before being brought down by the third and fourth tacklers.
7. It's well-recognized that the height can be a curse in terms of pad level but it can also be a blessing. You may have a tough time getting your pads low enough to break contact cleanly and create a missed tackle, but defenders also have a tough time stopping you from getting extra yardage after contact because of your linear size. This is why guys like Cam Newton (6'6"), Tim Tebow (6'3") and Brandon Jacobs (6'4") are so effective on the goal line. You're trying to stop those guys from getting that 4 or 5 feet and it's tough. Those three together scored 19 TDs on 39 Goal-to-Go runs this year. That's an insane percentage.
8. Vision and the quickness of his decision making and instincts are some things that intrigue me with Messam. As I said before he makes decisions quickly about how he's going to handle defenders in the open field. But, he also senses the cutback lane pretty well and is able to key on defenders for his cutback reads that are obscured by the trash in front of him. It makes you wonder if it's a coincidence that some of the guys that showed much more aptitude for the cutback game than other ground schemes, guys like Terrell Davis, Arian Foster and Tyrone Wheatley, were a little bit taller players. Not saying they all were, but some of the guys that were questioned about whether they'd be as productive in non-cutback schemes definitely were. Tyrone Wheatley was not at all successful until he got to Oakland and found Bill Callahan's zone cutback scheme. Messam doesn't get cute and always cuts back to the end zone as quickly as he can, shortening the distance to paydirt. Especially look at his work near the goal line, he doesn't mess around. The thing he also does is set up his blocks. Look at the screen play I link below. He runs outside of his blockers so that he can cut back against the grain to the inside of the blockers and create more yardage.
9. Does not show elite level elusiveness, burst or physicality, but has a top gear. The physicality isn't as big a deal to me because like I said, that can develop, and in the mean time his sheer size is going to create bad form tackling from secondary players because many of those guys just don't know how to approach really large high speed ball carriers, hence all the commotion with the new generation of Tight Ends coming out. I was the one that compared him to Lawrence Phillips. Phillips had a little bit better burst and elusiveness than Messam, but Messam may have better vision for the cutback, and of course one would hope he's not going to get arrested as much as Phillips. Messam measured about 6'4" and 250 lbs at his pro day, ran in the 4.4's to 4.5's with a 33 inch vertical, near as I can tell.
10. Coming from the CFL you have plenty of blocking reps. I watch him block and sometimes he doesn't quite explode into the defender the way you need, but he does generally display good form and feet, like he knows what he's doing back there. His size alone lets him do more against bigger D-Ends and Rush LBs than a guy like Reggie Bush, and I think he's a more aware protector than Daniel Thomas. He just needs to be coached out of the flat-footedness you see every now and then as he's leading into contact. Not that you want him to get off balance, either.
Some plays I liked...
Leveling a defender blocking on a WR screen for Adarius Bowman:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lQbmAzLD6go&feature=player_detailpage#t=102s
Blocking a bigger Rush End long enough to get the pass off:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kx7ReW-WTac&feature=player_detailpage#t=77s
More blocking, two plays consecutively:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l97SbR4-eYI&feature=player_detailpage#t=23s
More blocking:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rOjRrlCte1Q&feature=player_detailpage#t=111s
More blocking:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GOJpdth0L30&feature=player_detailpage#t=245s
Sees the safety through a crowd, makes the cutback for a touchdown:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n_xzXsP2vSY&feature=player_detailpage#t=110s
Quick open field decision making and ability to juke defenders one on one:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n_xzXsP2vSY&feature=player_detailpage#t=178s
Two plays, catch-n-run alluded to before, then a zone cutback TD:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n_xzXsP2vSY&feature=player_detailpage#t=304s
Quickness of decision-making, sharpness of cuts, pads are literally Ricky Ray's waist level at the cut in backfield:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QbWLQ-iQIiE&feature=player_detailpage#t=92s
Another good run, typical stretch play:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QbWLQ-iQIiE&feature=player_detailpage#t=139s
Fumble, caught trying do too much after contact. Critical moment of the game. Goes back to character/intelligence issues:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QbWLQ-iQIiE&feature=player_detailpage#t=301s
Again if you’re looking for pad level while still navigating traffic, look at this and tell me there’s a problem:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GOJpdth0L30&feature=player_detailpage#t=291s
Another nice run, jukes the defender in the open field after making the right cutback:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e2ZAINcO580&feature=player_detailpage#t=107s
Another TD off the zone cutback, look how he squeezes that crease:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e2ZAINcO580&feature=player_detailpage#t=143s
Three plays, a red zone cutback TD, a tackle break for big gain, then finding the crease from nothing:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8yV2_sxqLj8&feature=player_detailpage#t=56s
A rare screen play, sets up his blockers for the cutback and makes a big gain:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8yV2_sxqLj8&feature=player_detailpage#t=203s
Really nice play, nice tackle-breaking, stiff-arm:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4d5YOp7c9n8&feature=player_detailpage#t=90s
Look at the physicality on this run, really nice:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4d5YOp7c9n8&feature=player_detailpage#t=162s
Incidentally, Adarius Bowman NEEDS to be given a shot at the NFL.
Last edited by a moderator:
Fodder
ckparrothead
Premium Member
I think that much has been obvious since Joe Philbin was hired, and if it weren't obvious at that point then when he hired Mike Sherman and Jim Turner that pretty much sealed it.