Is Hard Knocks a Bad Idea? | Page 3 | FinHeaven - Miami Dolphins Forums

Is Hard Knocks a Bad Idea?

ckparrothead said:
Herm Edwards says it wasn't a distraction. Rex Ryan and Brian Billick say the same, in fact they go one further and said that practices with the Hard Knocks cameras rolling were generally better, players were more focused because they didn't want to look bad on HBO.

I don't think Miami has the type of coaching staff and players that would get nervous about the presence of cameras, knowing they've got to hide things or pretend to be something they're not. Philbin is a lot more Tony Dungy than Gregg Williams.
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That's when Herme was with the Chiefs?

Didn't they only win 4 games that season?
 
I think some teams turned Hard Knocks down at the negotiations table, which has a lot more to do with compensation and concessions than some philosophical opposition to it as a "distraction". There are definitely teams that philosophically oppose it. The Patriots would probably never do it, although I would note that Bill Belichick has agreed to having similar documentary type productions done during his camps and practices. Andrew Brandt said that when he worked for the Packers, whenever he brought up Hard Knocks as a possibility, he was given an emphatic "NO!" by the football people.

I think what happens is there's this default assumption that it's a distraction, this default assumption that it's not good to have team laundry aired out for everyone to see, etc. Think of the Gregg Williams' and their ilk out there that get a little too fired up and maybe say some things they shouldn't say when they're talking to other coaches and/or players, and these guys know that if things like that are caught on camera and taken out of context (or even put in the correct context), they look bad. A lot of coaches and football people either don't think it through or don't want to think it through. They'd rather just sit in their bubble and worry only about football stuff. I notice when Philbin came on, in March he was asked about Hard Knocks, and he basically laughed it off and said no that's probably not something he'd do. I bet you money he didn't even give 30 seconds worth of thought on it, though. He just said no because he was part of the Packers and the Packers always said no, and just like a bunch of other people that don't know and haven't thought it through, he thinks it'll be a distraction. There are 31 other teams out there, let them think about all that, I have enough on my plate. That's the general stance of each of the other 31 other coaches out there, too.

To me, just like any process, as you go on and you do it more, you refine it and get better at it. I think HBO has done that, and especially over 2009 to 2010, they really nailed the thing down pretty good. It's not a "reality show". It's a documentary. There's a big difference. HBO invests a lot in the production of the show, which isn't generally true of reality shows (which are so popular in large part because they're cheap to produce). I think that once someone (probably Ross) asked Philbin to reconsider and actually do some research into it rather than just saying no outright as some default stance based on vague, non-specific "distraction" fears, Joe probably did his research and realized there's more benefit than harm, that the distraction concerns were generally overly vague and unfounded, and that this kind of thing can actually benefit team chemistry.

The Bungles were 4-11-1 in 2008 and 4-12 in 2010. Yet, in 2009 they miraculously pulled off a 10-6 record. That was the year they did Hard Knocks. The Jets went to the AFCCG in 2009, then did Hard Knocks in 2010. They went to the AFCCG yet again, despite the quarterback liability that all but a few diehard Jets fans know they have to deal with. You can't tell me that Hard Knocks distracts these teams and prevents them from living up to what they could have done. I don't really think there's evidence of it.

The thing I find interesting though is this is the first time Hard Knocks has profiled a team with a brand new coaching staff. That's interesting and I think it could be beneficial to the Dolphins. The thing you do worry about with Hard Knocks is the whole thing interrupting your routine. Let's say you are a team that has already been successful and you've established that success, have established proven processes, and then those get interrupted by Hard Knocks. It could throw you off, conceivably. I'm not saying it would, but it could.

However, if you're a new team, a young team, still trying to feel each other out, still trying to establish your successful habits and practices, doing so with the cameras on you could be particularly beneficial. The reason is, you're being watched. Oversight spurs production. As Rex Ryan and Brian Billick said, those were some of the better practices they've seen, the ones where players knew the Hard Knocks cameras were rolling. Similarly, inside the building, the players are trying to look diligent, represent themselves well. Hell, some day you're going to be a free agent, and any team that wants a firsthand view of your practice habits and demeanor need only watch a few episodes of Hard Knocks. You damn well don't want to look bad, that's for sure. That doesn't just apply to prospective free agent destination teams, either. Your own team will have coaches going through all of the unedited footage. They're going to know and see a LOT of things they wouldn't normally see, wouldn't normally know.

Taking over a team, that first year, most of your roster are holdovers. You're trying to figure out who needs to be here and who doesn't. Players are already on their toes, they're supposed to be uncomfortable, knowing they're being watched. This just amplifies that, and also gives the staff some neat extra tools and data points for that evaluation process.
 
ckparrothead said:
I think some teams turned Hard Knocks down at the negotiations table, which has a lot more to do with compensation and concessions than some philosophical opposition to it as a "distraction". There are definitely teams that philosophically oppose it. The Patriots would probably never do it, although I would note that Bill Belichick has agreed to having similar documentary type productions done during his camps and practices. Andrew Brandt said that when he worked for the Packers, whenever he brought up Hard Knocks as a possibility, he was given an emphatic "NO!" by the football people.

I think what happens is there's this default assumption that it's a distraction, this default assumption that it's not good to have team laundry aired out for everyone to see, etc. Think of the Gregg Williams' and their ilk out there that get a little too fired up and maybe say some things they shouldn't say when they're talking to other coaches and/or players, and these guys know that if things like that are caught on camera and taken out of context (or even put in the correct context), they look bad. A lot of coaches and football people either don't think it through or don't want to think it through. They'd rather just sit in their bubble and worry only about football stuff. I notice when Philbin came on, in March he was asked about Hard Knocks, and he basically laughed it off and said no that's probably not something he'd do. I bet you money he didn't even give 30 seconds worth of thought on it, though. He just said no because he was part of the Packers and the Packers always said no, and just like a bunch of other people that don't know and haven't thought it through, he thinks it'll be a distraction. There are 31 other teams out there, let them think about all that, I have enough on my plate. That's the general stance of each of the other 31 other coaches out there, too.

To me, just like any process, as you go on and you do it more, you refine it and get better at it. I think HBO has done that, and especially over 2009 to 2010, they really nailed the thing down pretty good. It's not a "reality show". It's a documentary. There's a big difference. HBO invests a lot in the production of the show, which isn't generally true of reality shows (which are so popular in large part because they're cheap to produce). I think that once someone (probably Ross) asked Philbin to reconsider and actually do some research into it rather than just saying no outright as some default stance based on vague, non-specific "distraction" fears, Joe probably did his research and realized there's more benefit than harm, that the distraction concerns were generally overly vague and unfounded, and that this kind of thing can actually benefit team chemistry.

The Bungles were 4-11-1 in 2008 and 4-12 in 2010. Yet, in 2009 they miraculously pulled off a 10-6 record. That was the year they did Hard Knocks. The Jets went to the AFCCG in 2009, then did Hard Knocks in 2010. They went to the AFCCG yet again, despite the quarterback liability that all but a few diehard Jets fans know they have to deal with. You can't tell me that Hard Knocks distracts these teams and prevents them from living up to what they could have done. I don't really think there's evidence of it.

The thing I find interesting though is this is the first time Hard Knocks has profiled a team with a brand new coaching staff. That's interesting and I think it could be beneficial to the Dolphins. The thing you do worry about with Hard Knocks is the whole thing interrupting your routine. Let's say you are a team that has already been successful and you've established that success, have established proven processes, and then those get interrupted by Hard Knocks. It could throw you off, conceivably. I'm not saying it would, but it could.

However, if you're a new team, a young team, still trying to feel each other out, still trying to establish your successful habits and practices, doing so with the cameras on you could be particularly beneficial. The reason is, you're being watched. Oversight spurs production. As Rex Ryan and Brian Billick said, those were some of the better practices they've seen, the ones where players knew the Hard Knocks cameras were rolling. Similarly, inside the building, the players are trying to look diligent, represent themselves well. Hell, some day you're going to be a free agent, and any team that wants a firsthand view of your practice habits and demeanor need only watch a few episodes of Hard Knocks. You damn well don't want to look bad, that's for sure. That doesn't just apply to prospective free agent destination teams, either. Your own team will have coaches going through all of the unedited footage. They're going to know and see a LOT of things they wouldn't normally see, wouldn't normally know.

Taking over a team, that first year, most of your roster are holdovers. You're trying to figure out who needs to be here and who doesn't. Players are already on their toes, they're supposed to be uncomfortable, knowing they're being watched. This just amplifies that, and also gives the staff some neat extra tools and data points for that evaluation process.
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Always love your analysis CK. I too think this is a good thing that will help fans(old & new) become familiar with a new team, a new direction, and hopefully a return to "GREATNESS". We had a "No Name" defense at one time. This year it is the "No Name" Wide reciever corp. because I think we are gona be very good.
 
nyjunc said:
They didn't win only 4 games b/c of hard Knocks, they won only 4 b/c they were a bad football team.
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EXACTLY!

The teams that went on to have good years went on to win because they were good teams not because they had a few extra cameras around in TC and PS.

I don't think any team did better than it would have done for being on this program. People keep mentioning the last few teams and how well they did, that isn't really a marker of anything.
 
It could really only be bad if any other team besides the Dolphins accepted the offer to be on the show.
 
Only criticism I really ever recall making of the show is that you do have to be careful about the practice footage because there really is some stuff the footage could show from the practice that other teams could glean stuff off. I remember seeing some stuff in the Jets' Hard Knocks and I thought it translated to games to where now I knew a certain tendency, or signal, etc.

Otherwise I always was more critical of the Dolphins for being a team that would never even think of saying yes to Hard Knocks. I hate that attitude.
 
We've majored in fear for years. This is a perfect opportunity to break away, to borrow from the name of that 1979 film, although it's somewhat pathetic, like the kid in junior high who was too scared to read his paper in front of the class so the teacher read it for him.

Ireland and Ross tremble and sweat when trying to tell our own story, so hand someone else the cameras and the microphones. That's what I'm getting at.

I have only one concern: If Joe Philbin says something complimentary or tolerant toward our stadium situation, I'll know he's not the right guy.
 
I think its a bad idea, but I'm going to actually watch it this year so I guess that's a plus. Just hope it doesn't interfere with them getting some real work done.
 
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