is it houck or the players? | FinHeaven - Miami Dolphins Forums

is it houck or the players?

thecoordinator

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many people think our o line will be as bad this year as it has been the previous 2 years. is houck overrated or do our players just suck that bad? if the players were good then how much would the coaching really matter? carey has progressed nicely but why should houck get credit for that? carey was a 1st round pick. he should be good. im just not buying this guy as the top OL coach he was made out to be. if the OL isn't improved significantly this year - his 3rd season - i don't see why we should keep him around.
 
Our o-line in the last two years has not been as bad as it has in the past.Before Houck got here out LT spot was a revolving door and last year the sack total went down as soon as Daunte sat ..... As for as the problem being Houck I disagree, the problem is not enough young talent.When you start a line with Mckinney, James, Mcintosh and Anderson or Mcdougle you are looking at real bad o-line talent. I dont include Carey and Hadnot cause that has been the only talent we have had on the o-line and Shelton last year did a good job at the guard spot.
 
many people think our o line will be as bad this year as it has been the previous 2 years. is houck overrated or do our players just suck that bad? if the players were good then how much would the coaching really matter? carey has progressed nicely but why should houck get credit for that? carey was a 1st round pick. he should be good. im just not buying this guy as the top OL coach he was made out to be. if the OL isn't improved significantly this year - his 3rd season - i don't see why we should keep him around.
I don't understand all the whining either. We have a lot of new blood for the O-Line, hopefully those guys will pan out and excel.
 
Hey may be labled a top Oline coach, but also even the best will have issues when you give him lower talented players. Not to mention changing the Offense every year also would have an effect.
 
I just hope that this will be the last major change to the OL. The only major concern I have with the OL is if Carey can hold up well at LT like he did at RT. I think he can, but we shall see.

There will always me subtle changes. I think next year having the same offense will help.

I think Carey should stay at RT. I just do not think he will perform at LT
 
I think Houck has had success developing young players. For wahtever reason we kept bringing in retreads. It's great to finally see Cam come in and say enough is enough. We have a bunch of young guys now to develop. Unfortunately they did not start this 3 years ago but at least we are headed down the right path. I hope the line comes together this year but I'd expect a 2 year project here with another tweaking next offseason. Hopefully we get our center for the future now and Carey pans out. Two big IF's. I'm not worried about Shelton - he will be solid at RT. It would be nice if Alabi could ever develop as the replacement there. I also hope we nail down 1 solid guard and that would leave us one position to upgrade next year. I'm just tired of having the Rosenthal type of rejects around and thinking they can do the job. Please can the young guys step up and take the roster spots. That will tell us what kind of future we have on the line.
 
I also think that once you get labelled, you're stuck with it until your proven otherwise... so although we are addressing the Oline through the draft etc... we still be thought of as a team with a very poor o-line.

I think we'll be fine.
 
Continuity is a HUGE problem.

Name one player on our roster who will be playing the position he played last year.

Now, name how many players have been on the OLine (at any position) each of the past 3 years.

Do you see the REAL problem?

We've been patching up this problem with has beens and retreads. The only solid talent we have on the line is the people we've drafted; Carey and Hadnot.

We've got the same problem on OLine as we've had at QB. We've not been investing high draft picks and substantial money into the problem. Even Shelton's deal is not "big money". It was for us, but not in the league.

I'll give you an example of committment; Indianapolis Colts. There's a lot of money and high picks spent there. I guess everything worked out for them, didn't it?

We might hit it big with Beck. It's the most significant investment at drafting a QB we've made in over a decade.

And honestly, if you look at it, it is about time for Carey to start peaking and possibly anchor the line. He's got 3 years under his belt. 2 with a great coach. So, it's about time for that 1st rounder to start paying dividends.

It takes time, committment and money to build and maintain a great line and QB depth. We're just now starting to get the picture.

Ironic, considering all the years we poured money into the offense when Dan was here. Almost like we forgot how important the QB really was.

How many times a year do you hear it, "This is a Quarterback league"?

It rings true every year. You don't have to have the most prolific QB. You need the best QB for your system. Some systems don't put up the stats. But, that just makes each play and decision by the QB even more important.
 
many people think our o line will be as bad this year as it has been the previous 2 years. is houck overrated or do our players just suck that bad? if the players were good then how much would the coaching really matter? carey has progressed nicely but why should houck get credit for that? carey was a 1st round pick. he should be good. im just not buying this guy as the top OL coach he was made out to be. if the OL isn't improved significantly this year - his 3rd season - i don't see why we should keep him around.


Our O-line has not been that bad. Two years ago they were among the top lines in not giving up sacks....oh, and they also helped two RBs get close to 1000 yards with both averaging 4.4 yards per carry.

Last year, if you watch the games closely, Joey had time to throw, but the problem was Joey did not know where to throw, and Ronnie with very few touches, still managed to get 1000 yards.

As for your question, it has been Houck that has allowed an average O-line to look better then they were, now he is starting to insert youth, and if they pan out, and are actually better then what we had, this become a very good unit.
 
Continuity is a HUGE problem.

Name one player on our roster who will be playing the position he played last year.

Now, name how many players have been on the OLine (at any position) each of the past 3 years.

Do you see the REAL problem?

We've been patching up this problem with has beens and retreads. The only solid talent we have on the line is the people we've drafted; Carey and Hadnot.

We've got the same problem on OLine as we've had at QB. We've not been investing high draft picks and substantial money into the problem. Even Shelton's deal is not "big money". It was for us, but not in the league.

I'll give you an example of committment; Indianapolis Colts. There's a lot of money and high picks spent there. I guess everything worked out for them, didn't it?

We might hit it big with Beck. It's the most significant investment at drafting a QB we've made in over a decade.

And honestly, if you look at it, it is about time for Carey to start peaking and possibly anchor the line. He's got 3 years under his belt. 2 with a great coach. So, it's about time for that 1st rounder to start paying dividends.

It takes time, committment and money to build and maintain a great line and QB depth. We're just now starting to get the picture.

Ironic, considering all the years we poured money into the offense when Dan was here. Almost like we forgot how important the QB really was.

How many times a year do you hear it, "This is a Quarterback league"?

It rings true every year. You don't have to have the most prolific QB. You need the best QB for your system. Some systems don't put up the stats. But, that just makes each play and decision by the QB even more important.


Very nice post
 
You can't make chicken salad out of chicken "poop."

Houck is one of the best OL coaches in football. But if he doesn't have the players, what can he really do? Shelton is a bust who couldn't play on two bad OLs in Arizona and Cleveland. Your interior is new so it remains to be seen how they perform. And Carey (your best OL by far) is making a very difficult change.

The Bills OL coach, Jim McNally, is also thought to be one of the best in the game. However, our line has struggled because we tried to get by with castoffs. And while people think we overpaid, he handpicked Dockery and Walker. I'll trust his opinion over a bunch of nerds.

If your line gels, you guys are gonna be very tough. If not, Trent Green is in a lot of trouble because the AFC East has some of the best pass rushers in football.
 
Continuity is a HUGE problem.

Name one player on our roster who will be playing the position he played last year.

Now, name how many players have been on the OLine (at any position) each of the past 3 years.

Do you see the REAL problem?

We've been patching up this problem with has beens and retreads. The only solid talent we have on the line is the people we've drafted; Carey and Hadnot.

We've got the same problem on OLine as we've had at QB. We've not been investing high draft picks and substantial money into the problem. Even Shelton's deal is not "big money". It was for us, but not in the league.

I'll give you an example of committment; Indianapolis Colts. There's a lot of money and high picks spent there. I guess everything worked out for them, didn't it?

We might hit it big with Beck. It's the most significant investment at drafting a QB we've made in over a decade.

And honestly, if you look at it, it is about time for Carey to start peaking and possibly anchor the line. He's got 3 years under his belt. 2 with a great coach. So, it's about time for that 1st rounder to start paying dividends.

It takes time, committment and money to build and maintain a great line and QB depth. We're just now starting to get the picture.

Ironic, considering all the years we poured money into the offense when Dan was here. Almost like we forgot how important the QB really was.

How many times a year do you hear it, "This is a Quarterback league"?

It rings true every year. You don't have to have the most prolific QB. You need the best QB for your system. Some systems don't put up the stats. But, that just makes each play and decision by the QB even more important.

Good post, but I have to disagree with your comments about Carey. If Carey was staying at RT, then you can say, "yeah, it's time for him to step up", but by moving him to LT, he's back at about square 2 again.

Carey at LT is a big ?. If he can make the transition from RT to LT, then I think that the Fins' OL is probably not much worse off than last season. If Carey struggles, it's going to be a long season for the Miami QBs -- and the team may very well go through two or three before the end of the season. Carey was a guard in college, and guards generally don't make the transition to tackle well, especially left tackle because they aren't as quick and don't have the "fast feet" that LTs need to stop the lighter, faster DEs.

It's much easier for slow tackles to move to guard, and this raises the issue of Shelton at RT. Shelton failed at LT at Arizona, at Cleveland, and at Miami. He was a serviceable guard, however, but is he fast enough to make a reasonable RT? Nobody knows. No matter how good Houck is as a coach, he can't make Carey and Shelton faster than they are.

Houck will also have his hands full with getting two rookies ready to start. Miami fans point to the Jets last year with 2 rookies on the OL and assume that the Fins can do the same, but they forget that D'Brick was a Top Five pick and Mangold was a Top 15 pick (I think). That's a big difference in skill (and maybe talent) between a pair of first rounders and a late second rounder and a sixth rounder. It should also be noted that the Jets had 3 solid linemen to support the rookies. Miami also doesn't have that.
 
many people think our o line will be as bad this year as it has been the previous 2 years. is houck overrated or do our players just suck that bad? if the players were good then how much would the coaching really matter? carey has progressed nicely but why should houck get credit for that? carey was a 1st round pick. he should be good. im just not buying this guy as the top OL coach he was made out to be. if the OL isn't improved significantly this year - his 3rd season - i don't see why we should keep him around.


Its the talent in Miami that has been bad, not Houck...

He made GREAT lines in St. Louis, Dallas and San Diego. Also, he has been an offensive line coach since 1971. In his nine years with the the Rams they had 1,000-yard rushers 7 seasons, 5 Rams offensive linemen combined for 21 pro bowls. He spent 1 year in Seattle where Chris Warren rushed for 1,000 yards. In dallas they allowed 203 sacks in 9 years under Houck and were the fewest of any NFL team in that span. 6 offensive linemen earned 22 trips to the Pro Bowl under Houck. Emmit smith rushed for 1,000 yards every season under Houck, and In SD Houck made one of the league's worst offensive lines to one of the best and LT rushed for 1,300+ in each of Houck's three seasons with the team.

Im sure he knows what he is doing. Its not him that is bad it WAS Miamis talent on the OL
 
Its the talent in Miami that has been bad, not Houck...

He made GREAT lines in St. Louis, Dallas and San Diego. Also, he has been an offensive line coach since 1971. In his nine years with the the Rams they had 1,000-yard rushers 7 seasons, 5 Rams offensive linemen combined for 21 pro bowls. He spent 1 year in Seattle where Chris Warren rushed for 1,000 yards. In dallas they allowed 203 sacks in 9 years under Houck and were the fewest of any NFL team in that span. 6 offensive linemen earned 22 trips to the Pro Bowl under Houck. Emmit smith rushed for 1,000 yards every season under Houck, and In SD Houck made one of the league's worst offensive lines to one of the best and LT rushed for 1,300+ in each of Houck's three seasons with the team.

Im sure he knows what he is doing. Its not him that is bad it WAS Miamis talent on the OL

As you can see houck is not the problem LOL .... nice post D13!
 
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