Is the epicenter of the Dolphins problems the combine?

[Daytona Fin]

My phone will ring any day now. Yes sir, any day. It's going to ring, my question will be answered, and the Dolphins' overriding problem of the past 15 years will be resolved."I'll call you back," Dion Jordan said a few weeks ago.
And so I've waited by the phone with the question. And waited. And waited for it to ring, because with the Dolphins back in Indianapolis for the NFL scouting combine it's the red-flag issue inside this franchise this millennium.
The question: How did the Dolphins miss in interviews and subsequent follow-ups a marijuana problem in Jordan that was so obvious that team officials were warned of it his first month of practice?

It's all the ways the Dolphins have blown their work at this combine, from the embarrassing Dez Bryant question from General Manager Jeff Ireland ("Is your mother a prostitute?") all the way back to the physical examination of linebacker Eddie Moore in 2003 that alerted Dave Wannstedt to knee issues. (He ignored them. A second-round pick was wasted).

But the epicenter of the problem, the one their disappointments always trace back to, is this February week in Indianapolis. It's this NFL combine. It's the manner they've swung and missed starting in a small room, across a conference table, with a draft prospect.All the public stuff at the combine lends it a veneer of circus. The timed sprints. The weight workouts. People go crazy at hand sizes for quarterbacks and shuttle runs for cornerbacks, but that's the easy stuff.
"The height, weight, speed, etc., was black and white," former Cowboys and Dolphins coach Jimmy Johnson said. "Everyone had it. What's in a player's heart and mind — is he driven? Is he passionate about playing? That's what you have to find."
Johnson built a Dallas dynasty and a Dolphins defense for a decade on drafting. He went to Indianapolis knowing where the value was to him.
"I felt the interviews and subsequent one-on-one talks were one of the most important things we could do to predict success," he said. "You have to be careful because they are well schooled [by agents], but you walk away from a Jason Taylor saying, 'I don't care if he's undersized, I want him on my team.'"

Martin's issues with depression, which led him to suicide attempts, as he admitted after leaving the Dolphins?"I think other teams knew about them. We found out later," the team source said.
The Dolphins asked Jordan about marijuana use.
"What do you think he said?" the source said. "He said it was no issue."
Ireland believed that enough to trade the 12th and 40th overall picks to move up for him. Now Jordan sits out the final days of suspension before finding if he's a Dolphin again.
Maybe the Dolphins get the combine right this year. Maybe they'll ask the right questions, discover what they've done wrong so many years. But, just in case, I'm sitting by the my phone. It's going to ring any minute now.

http://www.sun-sentinel.com/sports/miami-dolphins/fl-hyde-column-0227-20160226-column.html

 

[Sons Of Shula]

"I felt the interviews and subsequent one-on-one talks were one of the most important things we could do to predict success," he said.

THIS.

The numbers and the combine are fun. But tape and individual interviews are the best tools in determining a football player. And I'll take a football player over an athlete 10/10 times.

 

[SF Dolphin Fan]

It goes back to scouting, coaching and developing talent. That's where Miami has been below average for far too long.

Hopefully, the team got the coach right by bringing in a bright, young mind in Adam Gase. Now's the time to consistently make the right choices in player personnel. Things can change in a hurry in the NFL. Just look at Carolina and what a couple of great drafts did for that franchise.

 

[j-off-her-doll]

People love touting the athletic freaks that Miami drafted, ignoring skill, but the first name you hear - every time - is Dion Jordan. Jordan was not a freak, he was as overrated as an athlete as he was a player. Miami doesn't know what they're doing in a lot of ways - picking athletes is one of them.

The Patriots obviously pay a lot of attention to certain drills and measurements. Doesn't take a ton of effort to find which.

 

[uk_dolfan]

no. the problem is that we literally havent had a good gm in my lifetime

 

[Bumpus]

Excellent point!

Heart ...

miles and miles of heart.​

 

[nyfinzfan]

Of course it is. Theyve put too much stock into interviews and combine numbers than say oh I dont know....guys who can actually play?

 

[yolli71]

People love touting the athletic freaks that Miami drafted, ignoring skill, but the first name you hear - every time - is Dion Jordan. Jordan was not a freak, he was as overrated as an athlete as he was a player. Miami doesn't know what they're doing in a lot of ways - picking athletes is one of them.

The Patriots obviously pay a lot of attention to certain drills and measurements. Doesn't take a ton of effort to find which.

Agree about Miami's draft history and Dion Jordan, but I've gotta say that BB is no draft expert himself. Seriously...if not for Tom Brady, BB would look horrible as a GM.

He has had so many busts it's comical (let alone FA busts like Adalius Thomas, Brandon LaFell, etc.). And even Gronkowski...everyone already knew how great he was at U of A...the only issue with him was the concern about his back. BB lucked out that Gronk's back hasn't been an issue in his professional career. If not for the back, Gronk would've already been drafted prior to the Pats pick. You could say the same thing about Aaron Hernandez...he lasted until the 4th round only b/c of character issues (which obviously came to fruition).

The Pats have had bust after bust and that's the only reason they haven't been the Bill Russell/Red Auerbach Celtics of the NFL. Their draft record is especially egregious considering they seem to follow the Jimmy Johnson philosophy of stockpiling draft picks. Until the past year or so, the Pats were famous for trading down and having 10+ picks each year, including trading current year picks for higher future picks.

I invite anyone to look at the Pats drafts over the past 10 years or so...it's no better than any other average NFL team. The only reason they win is b/c they just happen to have a HOF coach and HOF QB. Other than that, their personnel moves are nothing special. (Welker and Moss were two of their great moves, but those were trades...not the draft.)

 

[j-off-her-doll]

Agree about Miami's draft history and Dion Jordan, but I've gotta say that BB is no draft expert himself. Seriously...if not for Tom Brady, BB would look horrible as a GM.

He has had so many busts it's comical (let alone FA busts like Adalius Thomas, Brandon LaFell, etc.). And even Gronkowski...everyone already knew how great he was at U of A...the only issue with him was the concern about his back. BB lucked out that Gronk's back hasn't been an issue in his professional career. If not for the back, Gronk would've already been drafted prior to the Pats pick. You could say the same thing about Aaron Hernandez...he lasted until the 4th round only b/c of character issues (which obviously came to fruition).

The Pats have had bust after bust and that's the only reason they haven't been the Bill Russell/Red Auerbach Celtics of the NFL. Their draft record is especially egregious considering they seem to follow the Jimmy Johnson philosophy of stockpiling draft picks. Until the past year or so, the Pats were famous for trading down and having 10+ picks each year, including trading current year picks for higher future picks.

I invite anyone to look at the Pats drafts over the past 10 years or so...it's no better than any other average NFL team. The only reason they win is b/c they just happen to have a HOF coach and HOF QB. Other than that, their personnel moves are nothing special. (Welker and Moss were two of their great moves, but those were trades...not the draft.)

Agreed about Gronk, but I think you're putting a little too much stock in the misses. You can take teams like Carolina, Seattle, Minnesota, KC, Denver, Arizona, GB, etc. and see that they've all drafted with certain Combine metrics in mind much more than Miami has. They're longer, quicker, faster teams - particularly on D. D. Hunter lasted until the 3rd, because he had 1 or 1 1/2 sacks the year before he entered the NFL. He was labeled as an athletic project, but he totaled 6 sacks and a FF as a rookie DE.

His performance at the Combine, paired with an impressive Pro Day and interview process, was enough to warrant the gamble from Vikings general manager Rick Spielman. The rookie defensive end appeared in 14 games last season, finishing the year with 33 tackles, six sacks, and one forced fumble. Although he played in a rotational role behind Everson Griffen and Brian Robison, Hunter made the transition from “project” to player look easy, realizing his potential in a way so few can do so early in the careers.

I don't agree with the attributes where this article puts its focus. Hunter's explosion is good but not special - and not good enough to be his defining characteristic - but his combination of length and agility made him a great prospect. The article closes by affirming the notion that athletic guys who need development are 'risky' picks. It really depends on the position, but in general, it's players like Jarvis Jones who are risky picks - great college players, lacking the physical tools to play at a high level in the NFL. Anyway, I posted the article because it notes how an ascending team like Minnesota values the combine, and it highlights Hunter.

http://vikingsterritory.com/2016/opinion/danielle-hunter-and-the-value-of-the-nfl-combine

 

[Sons Of Shula]

Agree about Miami's draft history and Dion Jordan, but I've gotta say that BB is no draft expert himself. Seriously...if not for Tom Brady, BB would look horrible as a GM.

He has had so many busts it's comical (let alone FA busts like Adalius Thomas, Brandon LaFell, etc.). And even Gronkowski...everyone already knew how great he was at U of A...the only issue with him was the concern about his back. BB lucked out that Gronk's back hasn't been an issue in his professional career. If not for the back, Gronk would've already been drafted prior to the Pats pick. You could say the same thing about Aaron Hernandez...he lasted until the 4th round only b/c of character issues (which obviously came to fruition).

The Pats have had bust after bust and that's the only reason they haven't been the Bill Russell/Red Auerbach Celtics of the NFL. Their draft record is especially egregious considering they seem to follow the Jimmy Johnson philosophy of stockpiling draft picks. Until the past year or so, the Pats were famous for trading down and having 10+ picks each year, including trading current year picks for higher future picks.

I invite anyone to look at the Pats drafts over the past 10 years or so...it's no better than any other average NFL team. The only reason they win is b/c they just happen to have a HOF coach and HOF QB. Other than that, their personnel moves are nothing special. (Welker and Moss were two of their great moves, but those were trades...not the draft.)

Read this:

I did last summer and picked it up free at the local library. It's provides great insight on how the Patriots and Belichick prepare, approach, and execute their draft strategies (among many other things). It'll drastically change the outlook that you described in your post.

 

[j-off-her-doll]

Great example of people looking at/for the wrong things. They don't even list Miller's most exceptional event.

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap30...rrick-henrys-combine-comparison-is-von-miller

 

[Sons Of Shula]

Read this:

I did last summer and picked it up free at the local library. It's provides great insight on how the Patriots and Belichick prepare, approach, and execute their draft strategies (among many other things). It'll drastically change the outlook that you described in your post.

I ran out of time last night to go into more detail, but here's some tidbits about the how the Patriots build their roster and from the book.

New England is a unique place,” Robinson said. “It forces you to learn football and it forces you to learn more than just, ‘This player can do this.’ It teaches you big-picture things when it comes to roster building.

. . .

Belichick’s insistence on finding ways to accentuate a player’s positives instead of worrying about whether he can fit into a specific scheme.

. . .

“Coach Belichick would always talk about, ‘Tell me what the guy can do, don’t tell me what he can’t do,’ ” said Jason Licht (Tampa GM). “ ‘We’ll find a way to put that positive skill set to use in the defense and not ask him to be in a position where he can fail.’

. . .

“I think one of the things that everybody learns when they go into the Patriots Paradigm is that there was no ‘on the fence,’ ” said Dimitroff. “You had to come in with a strong opinion.

“Coach Belichick and Scott at that time, you weren’t going to just sort of fly under the radar and suggest that someone is replacing or is a backup in the league. You had to truly home in and compare him to the other talent on your football team. You had to be very specific.”

Ask the youngsters about the most important lesson they learned in New England, and the answer sounds straight out of Belichick’s mouth.

“Finding players that have a team-first attitude,” Robinson said. “There is nothing more important to a football team. No one part is greater than the other.”

. . .

My time with Bill was so interesting because he is deeply involved in personnel, more than any of the other four coaches I worked with by far,” said Pat Kirwan, a former scout, coach, and cap manager who worked with Belichick with the Jets in the 1990s.

“The problem is, does everyone learn everything Bill knows, or do they all learn just the piece Bill teaches them? I think you’ve got to stick your nose in other people’s business, which he doesn’t always like, but I think that’s how you get the big picture.”

Seems basic and maybe common sense, but then you see over and over again teams seeking out the BPA or need player as opposed seeing that overall picture of how to accentuate a player's strength and what he can do for the team as a whole and not an individual player specific to a position.