is this good news for fins. defense?

[Va.fin fan]

bills fans try to make you think there offense didnt take a step back this offseason by saying things like loosing price is no big deal. riemersma was nothing to this o and centers also wasnt a big deal last yr. they are comfortable with 2nd yr wr taking over.
but take a look at these stats.

moulds 100 1287 10 tds
price 94 1252 9 tds
centers 43 388
riemersma 37 350
there was not much diff moulds and price's stats. but befor some scream well moulds faces double coverage look at other teams 1 and 2 wr's

marvin 143 1722 11 wayne 49 716 4
t. owens 100 1300 13 streets 72 756 5
r.moss 106 1387 7 bates 50 689 4
r. smith 89 1027 5 Mc caffery 69 930 2
l. coles 89 1264 5 chrebet 51 691 9
d.driver 70 1064 9 glenn 56 817 2
j.rice 92 1211 7 brown 81 930 4

they lose centers and replce him with gnash and gary, gnash wont start and not a threat out of backfield. garys numbers were
18 148 0 rec not hardly a good replacement for centers. and they didn't even bother with getting a decent recieving te to replace riemersma.
price loss hurts more than led to be.
and i think this loss of bills o helps our d even more.
now im not saying were going 16-o or no one will score on our d.
but the bill fans cant say there o took a step back.
now i did leave out wm for reason i dont think he will be effective this yr (injury) i dont care what his agent says. there's a long line of players who tore there knee up and were unable to perform the same in the following season .

 

[Baz]

Here is how I see it. They lost explosiveness in return for a more balanced attack. They will now play the run and pass more equally than they did last season. The problem with that is, while it may be effective against most other teams, that plays right into this defense's hands.

This defense stops the run really well, and then makes the team beat them with the pass. Why didn't this work last season? Bates knew that the Bills were a pass first team, and played the pass before the run. However, the Bill's OC also knew that Bates was probably going to do this, and countered it. Next season, the Bills won't have 2 number one recievers on the field, which makes the pass less of a threat. They will most likely focus on Henry, hopefully stop him, and then try to make Bledsoe beat them with the pass. Most likely won't happen. When Bledsoe has no running game, he is no better than an average QB. He is at best when he has the play-action threat.

What this means is that the Bills will have a run-first mentality, which plays right into the hands of the Dolphins's D. If this defense can stop Henry next season, then the vaunted Bill's offense will probably be as successful as the Raiders were last season......

 

[inFINSible]

Baz is right....the offenses that hurt this defense the most were wide open spread the field kind of teams....If the bills want to morph into a more conventional O, more power to them.

 

[BuffBillsMan90]

Can't do it why bother playing the games ?

 

[inFINSible]

I'm missing your point here clump....:huh:

 

[Tatonka]

the same can be said for miami really.. stop ricky, game over.

i think the bills realize that they are in a spot that if you shut henry down, game over. you are right about drew not being effective without a runner. i think that is why they replaced a small FB with a blocker and a nonblocking TE with a blocking TE. Reed is a more physical blocker than Price. (kind of an understatement, as price never blocked a day in his life).

we will see if it works.

if i remember correctly, the bills did NOT come out firing last year. they pounded henry successfully starting at the beginning of the game and they used that to set up the bomb to moulds and price. i thought they were very balanced against you guys last year. saying that the dolphins were only playing the pass, and that is the only reason the bills beat the defense is a cop out imho.

 

[The Beach Bum]

Originally posted by Tatonka
the same can be said for miami really.. stop ricky, game over.

i think the bills realize that they are in a spot that if you shut henry down, game over. you are right about drew not being effective without a runner. i think that is why they replaced a small FB with a blocker and a nonblocking TE with a blocking TE. Reed is a more physical blocker than Price. (kind of an understatement, as price never blocked a day in his life).

we will see if it works.

if i remember correctly, the bills did NOT come out firing last year. they pounded henry successfully starting at the beginning of the game and they used that to set up the bomb to moulds and price. i thought they were very balanced against you guys last year. saying that the dolphins were only playing the pass, and that is the only reason the bills beat the defense is a cop out imho.

I totally disagree with you on your comment on our offense. If you stop ricky, then yes, half of our offense is gone... but if you think that is all we have, then why bother even having wr and te? Chris Chambers is ready to break out in a pro bowl year, and the last few games of the seasons showed that... cough raiders cough. We also have a second year star in Randy McMichael, who hopefully will not have a sophmore slump. Also, Rob Konrad can catch and break tackles. Norv Turner can make the Bengals into a top offense... he makes something out of nothing, even if we dont have stupendous weapons. Also, it will be pretty hard to stop ricky in the first place. With added strength and speed, plus a more gelled oline, he will be unstoppable... so dont count on having your unexperienced defense stopping us...

 

[The Beach Bum]

and when i say unexperienced, i mean unexperienced as a team... Dont think that just because you have the talent, you are automatically a great defense... Just look at the Fins and Bucs defense the past 3 or 4 years... it takes A LONG time to be dominent... I dont care what you say, or who you get...

 

[Tatonka]

Originally posted by The Beach Bum



I totally disagree with you on your comment on our offense. If you stop ricky, then yes, half of our offense is gone... but if you think that is all we have, then why bother even having wr and te? Chris Chambers is ready to break out in a pro bowl year, and the last few games of the seasons showed that... cough raiders cough. We also have a second year star in Randy McMichael, who hopefully will not have a sophmore slump. Also, Rob Konrad can catch and break tackles. Norv Turner can make the Bengals into a top offense... he makes something out of nothing, even if we dont have stupendous weapons. Also, it will be pretty hard to stop ricky in the first place. With added strength and speed, plus a more gelled oline, he will be unstoppable... so dont count on having your unexperienced defense stopping us...

look.. i am not saying your wrong.. but just listen to yourself...

chris chambers is READY TO BREAK OUT.. not has broken out, or showed in anyway shape or form that he CAN be a number 1. that is a ? regardless of how much u disagree.. again.. i am not saying your wrong.. you just cant be sure.. he did not succeed as the number 1 WR in his first attempt.

we have a second year star in randy mcmichael. ... ok ok ok.. i think you are REALLY getting ahead of yourself here.. mcmichael was my tightend last year in fantasy football.. so i followed him VERY closely.. from about the time i saw him do the flip in preseason, i was impressed. but if you want to sit here and tell me that he was a star based on what he did last year, then your just flat out not being accurate. he dissappeared for MANY games.. MANY GAMES IN A ROW even... he got engulfed on the line sometimes blocking.. other times he wasnt able to get open, and he made some key drops.. did he have flashes of beign a good player.. definately.. is he a star? no way.. not yet.. and saying anything other than that is just looking at it from a tainted view.

again.. i am not saying you are wrong in your ASSUMPTIONS.. thompson may be solid.. he has not started a full season yet, so we dont know.. toliver is rookie, mcknight has REGRESSED every year for the passed three years.. look at his yardage.. 900, 600, 500. in the past three years.

i would say that i am pretty accurate in describing your wr situation.

it is no different than me saying josh reed is a lock to fill peerless's shoes..

 

[Disgustipate]

First of all, we can win when teams stop the running game. Look at Denver. Second of all, it's very hard to stop Ricky. Look at the Patriots game, they were still stacking the line all game and we could both pass on them effectively, and still pound the ball.

Denver too, they "stopped" Ricky, but he still ended up with two touchdowns.

As for our passing game, it should be much improved. Decent backup if Fiedler goes down, and the WR situation is much better. Chambers more then likely isnt going to be injured like last season, nor will he likely have to switch to a possession reciever role.

Chambers and McMicheals will both be bigger focuses in our offense then they were last year. And again, Norv Turner has made a career out of making players look better then they are. He's made 1,000 yard recievers out of worse stock the Chambers.

 

[wahwee]

I will admit that if you stop Ricky, our offense will be pedestrian. My question to you, is how can you stop him? We have a top 3 playaction pass game, and Ricky has played his whole career against 8 man fronts (I don't think anyone else in the league has dealt with the same amount of defensive attention as #34 since he joined the league), so that won't be a problem.

Basically, the only way we will be stopped is by a slew of injuries, and if that's what teams are banking on, we've won already.:D

 

[The Beach Bum]

I did not mean that McMichael was a "star" now, but i definatly think he will be... He showed so much potential last year, but at the same time he did have some rookie mistakes... When fiedler went down, so did mcmichael. He was definatly one of fiedlers favorite targets, and so was chambers. When lucas came in, they stopped getting the ball thrown to them for some reason... In the South Florida papers, it has been reported that Fiedler, Chambers, and McMichael got together a few times before mini-camps to practice... this is why i am excited... there is definatly some chemistry there...

 

[Baz]

Originally posted by clumpedplatelet
Can't do it why bother playing the games ?

I'm not saying you all can't. If you read it closely, I said IF we can stop Henry, because I realize that is a task easier said than done. Tatonka, I know for a fact that this defense played the pass first last season. Bates said as much, if I remember correctly.

I do disagree about our offense being the same though. We had ZERO running game back in 2001, and still managed a 11-5 record, with a less than stellar offense. Now, we have a dominant running game, with a few young weapons on offense. Besides, Norv Turner's forte is his play calling, so I'm sure he'll have some plays to use in case Ricky isn't getting it done.......

 

[Tatonka]

Originally posted by Bazinet37


I'm not saying you all can't. If you read it closely, I said IF we can stop Henry, because I realize that is a task easier said than done. Tatonka, I know for a fact that this defense played the pass first last season. Bates said as much, if I remember correctly.

I do disagree about our offense being the same though. We had ZERO running game back in 2001, and still managed a 11-5 record, with a less than stellar offense. Now, we have a dominant running game, with a few young weapons on offense. Besides, Norv Turner's forte is his play calling, so I'm sure he'll have some plays to use in case Ricky isn't getting it done.......

ok.. but what about in the second game? henry ate you up both games.. did they play the pass the second game?

and what is bates gonna say.. yeah.. we played the run.. but just got owned.. i dont know how much stock i put into "playing the pass or run"...

you line up and play what comes at you.. imho.. i mean.. it is not like all the LBS dropped back into the secondary and the safeties sat in the endzone.

 

[rafael]

Originally posted by Tatonka


look.. i am not saying your wrong.. but just listen to yourself...

chris chambers is READY TO BREAK OUT.. not has broken out, or showed in anyway shape or form that he CAN be a number 1. that is a ? regardless of how much u disagree.. again.. i am not saying your wrong.. you just cant be sure.. he did not succeed as the number 1 WR in his first attempt.

we have a second year star in randy mcmichael. ... ok ok ok.. i think you are REALLY getting ahead of yourself here.. mcmichael was my tightend last year in fantasy football.. so i followed him VERY closely.. from about the time i saw him do the flip in preseason, i was impressed. but if you want to sit here and tell me that he was a star based on what he did last year, then your just flat out not being accurate. he dissappeared for MANY games.. MANY GAMES IN A ROW even... he got engulfed on the line sometimes blocking.. other times he wasnt able to get open, and he made some key drops.. did he have flashes of beign a good player.. definately.. is he a star? no way.. not yet.. and saying anything other than that is just looking at it from a tainted view.

again.. i am not saying you are wrong in your ASSUMPTIONS.. thompson may be solid.. he has not started a full season yet, so we dont know.. toliver is rookie, mcknight has REGRESSED every year for the passed three years.. look at his yardage.. 900, 600, 500. in the past three years.

i would say that i am pretty accurate in describing your wr situation.

it is no different than me saying josh reed is a lock to fill peerless's shoes..

I agree that any prediction about how our respective teams will perform is merely speculation, however, in order to aid your speculation regarding the Dolphins I would like to point out some factors that make your decription of our wr less than accurate.

CC - While he has not proven that he is a #1 yet there were some factors that hindered his progress last year which hopefully won't be present this year. 1. His injury, 2. Og's injury required CC to play a different role (diff. routes) in the O which he had not played before nor even practised in TC. 3. First year in a new system.

Mcmichael - Certainly not a star yet, but he only dissappeared in the O after JF got injured. Lucas had such a poor grasp of the O that Norv was forced to simplify our O and one of the main things he removed was the TE from the passing game. Mcmichael became primarily a blocker. BTW my opinion and the opinion of the Edge NFL matchup hosts was that he excelled as a blocker as they showcased his blocking on more than one occassion.

Mcknight - His play has not regressed over that past 3 seasons. His yardage totals have decreased b/c he has played less. Primarily, b/c of IMO questionable decisions by the coaching staff to start OG and Cris Carter. However, Mcknight's consistency (fewer drops and fumbles) has improved.

Overall I believe our WR situation has improved and that our O should improve just by being another year in the system.