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It will be interesting to see...

inFINSible

Don't believe everything you think.
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How many of our supposed Top NFL players get cleaned out if a new regime takes over.

The one constant on this team over the years of futility has been the players, specifically, on the defensive side of the ball.

Namely Zach Thomas, Jason Taylor, and Sam Madison.

Zach Thomas, the former 5th round draft pick who came out of no where and despite his small size, proved that he belongs on an NFL field because he has a heart three sizes too big for his chest.

Jason Taylor, the undersized defensive end whose only rival on the team for determination and grit, comes from the aforementioned Thomas. These two guys are so from the same mold internally, that they became family to each other.

Sam Madison, has all the talent, size, and speed you can ask for in a corner back and while some may question his heart,as he has been known to laugh it up after a loss, few have ever questioned his talent.

Sam, the one out of the group that came into the league pedigreed. No one has ever questioned whether he had all the skills and size to play the position.

Should they have?

Could it be possible, that in the days when Sam Madison was known for literally taking away half the field, that it wasn't as much taking it away as it was ignoring it. You gotta admit that for many years it was better to go away from Madison rather than test him, just because it was easier that way. There were other targets of weakness that could be exploited with far less risk than throwing at Sam. So that's what OC's did, took what they were given really.

Now that Surtaan has proven that he is not to be toyed with and the weakspots in our defense being harder to define, opposing OCs are testing the Madison waters and finding them quite warm and inviting.

Please don't get me wrong about Sam. I don't see him as a big weakness or something. I'm just wondering if he is able to shut down the best receivers in the league? Is the lack of heart showing up? Is he taking plays off? Is he not physically able to do it?

One thing is for sure, his game is much harder to find fault with than the other two.

And here is theirs' in a nutshell....size.

It's been said about the both of them from the very beginning of their careers. High motor, no a$$.

A revved up motor will get players like these two guys through 85%(numbers made up on the spot) of what they need to get through because, let's face it, the size disadvantage is rather minute really. I mean what's the difference between a 265 lb guy and a 255 lb guy in terms of what you can see by looking at them? Not much but, 15% of the time it hurts them. If a guard or center can get to Zach, he is effectively nullified from the play because he doesn't have the size to beat these guys one on one. Never mind that we practically lose two defenders trying to keep him clean.

JT is a great player but, he can be overpowered too. I'd even say that out of these three guys this is the closest to a superstar that we have and he quite possibly is a superstar but, he's also a guy that inexplicably disappears at times or for whole games and I think it has more to do with size and getting worn down than any lack of talent.

The way that Miami has gotten taken out each of the last 100 years (it seems) was by a bigger badder team just ramming it down their throats while they looked powerless to stop them.

Eric Allen said it first and I thought about it some more and I think he's right, these guys just aren't big enough when the other team has a heart the same size as theirs.

Or in Sam's case, bigger.





Sorry so long.:o
 
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Did Madison get burned on the first two drives? I thought it was Hendricks covering the TE and on the second drive it was Marion and Wooden that blew the coverage. Either way I believe it's Bates style yesterday that wasn't effective. They gave the receivers too much room and McNair is deadly accurate.
 
I respectfully disagree with your opinions. It all comes down to the coaching staff and their game plans IMO. Teams come in and do the same things over and over to the Fins every week. The coaches do not adjust.

Is it a coincidence that players like Ricky Williams, Chris Chambers, Jason Taylor, and Sam Madison are catching flack. If these guys were on any other team but the Fins this year they would not be catching this undeserved criticism. I just hope they'll all be around when we get coaches who are able to take advantage of their talents.
 
I agree with finsfan. Blaming Madison for anything is way off because he's elevated his play and we're still losing. You must not be watching the games Infins. Because the last 3 games Madison has been hitting harder than anyone on the team. The announcers made a point of saying how hard he hit on one particular play. Put the blame where it belongs. 3 3rd down conversions in the past 3 games.
 
:shakeno:

we need reading comprehension classes around here.
 
Class starts at 2:00 and you need to be there. Again Madison, Taylor, and Thomas are not even remotely associated with the problems on this team. Questioning their heart, their size, or anything else is way O F F.
 
Theyre the ones that haven't been getting it done, they're the cornerstones from JJ to now....38-0, 62-7, 27-0, monday night meltdown, the list is long, don't make me dig it all up please, just get the point that theses guys get dominated at times and it always happens late in the season when their size comes more into play.

And again my point about Madison was prefaced by "I don't see him as a huge glaring weakness" . I more questioned whether he was the absolute superstar that we have always thought, not that he isn't even a great player. Don't put words in my mouth and don't exagerate the ones I do use, please.
 
Last game, bad game to compare

ZT = OUT
JT = Double teamed, no one stepped up
Madison = cant be perfect, STILL unloaded on a guy, hes been playing pretty well....
 
Originally posted by inFINSible

Please don't get me wrong about Sam. I don't see him as a big weakness or something. I'm just wondering if he is able to shut down the best receivers in the league? Is the lack of heart showing up? Is he taking plays off? Is he not physically able to do it?

One thing is for sure, his game is much harder to find fault with than the other two.





Sorry so long.:o

The answers are Yes see Harrison last week.
No see the big hit this week.
Yes and no to taking plays off
Yes

Taylor I agree to some degree about he disappears some games and now he talks about getting chipped, that's loser talk. Zack you saw yesterday he is the heart of the defense as Hendricks is not a starter in this league.
 
You know Infins I was just thinking the same thing yesterday about Sam. No doubt he's a high caliber player, but if we compare him real quick to Sirtain, he's not as hungry as him anymore. Say we take a moment to delete Madison from the roster and add someone like Rolle on the roster at the other corner. Now, with those two type of hungry CB's across from one another, QB's would have a harder time connecting to their WR's, IMO.
 
As a long time Astros fan, there are some unfortunate similarities between the teams. I do not think that anyone would ever quedstion the careers and abilities of Jeff Bagwell and Craig Biggio . . . BUT, they could never win the big games.

In the Astros case, it could be argued that they put too much money in two players to the detriment of other positions. In other words not enough help.

The same could be said for Zach, JT and Madison? I love those guys and do not want them to leave . . . BUT, the question must be asked, what is the constant in the last 5 seasons?

It is a fair question to ask. I do not know the answer.

Texphinphan
 
You got to admit that inFINSible does make good points here...it seems that when you need the players he mentioned to step up...they don't.

For example...last year when we controlled our own destiny with two games left...these 3 players disappeared man. they did not do anything vs. the Vikings or the Pats.
 
Originally posted by TexPhinPhan
As a long time Astros fan, there are some unfortunate similarities between the teams. I do not think that anyone would ever quedstion the careers and abilities of Jeff Bagwell and Craig Biggio . . . BUT, they could never win the big games.

In the Astros case, it could be argued that they put too much money in two players to the detriment of other positions. In other words not enough help.

The same could be said for Zach, JT and Madison? I love those guys and do not want them to leave . . . BUT, the question must be asked, what is the constant in the last 5 seasons?

It is a fair question to ask. I do not know the answer.

Texphinphan

I don't know the answer either....or at least I shudder at the thought of what it might be.
 
Originally posted by Sal Lisitano
You got to admit that inFINSible does make good points here...it seems that when you need the players he mentioned to step up...they don't.

For example...last year when we controlled our own destiny with two games left...these 3 players disappeared man. they did not do anything vs. the Vikings or the Pats.

They are the leaders. Even moreso than Wannstedt. He's even made that clear. He wants the leadership to come from the team and they aren't doing it. Whether Wanny is capable of doing it or not is really irrelevant, IMO.
 
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