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Its not just about coaching - reality check

Bumrush

Bumrush

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Guys, I have been thinking a lot about why the Phins constantly have troubles stepping it up to the next level. I think a large part of the reason for our failures has been the simple fact that we do not have the talent that many of the top tier teams in the NFL have.

Lets face it- We haven't had a top 5 pick since possibly the 1960's!! (someone correct me if thats wrong). JJ came in here and got a nasty rap sheet, but in retrospect he did a fantastic job in building a defense that is still a top 5 defense years later. Zach, Madison, Surtain, Taylor were excellent draft picks and have turned out to be defensive studs..

What I’m trying to get at is that the Phins do not consistently have the opportunity to upgrade their team via the draft to pick up big offensive lineman like Boselli who can anchor an entire line. They do not have early picks to pick up a Mike Vick or a Donovan Mcnabb or a talented, highly rated QB to groom. The success of this team is also its biggest downfall. Shula, arguably the greatest coach of all time could not get the job done since 1986, the last time we played an AFC Championship game at home. Jimmy Johnson, a man who never tasted failure was beat 62-7 and was run out of town with the greatest QB of all time.

Maybe we are being to harsh on Wanny. Look at what is required to get a franchise player like Ricky Williams. We basically have to give up our draft for two years. It doesn’t surprise me anymore when you see Super Bowl champs such as the Ravens, Tampa, NE, St Louis and others that are never really picked to do anything. Their past failures and abilities to pick up key free agents along with top draft picks gives them a window of success that is much shorter than a team like the Dolphins, who always wind up at the middle to the top of the pack. Unfortunantly, it is possible that the only way we will ever see a Lombardi trophy in Miami is after we go through some tough stretches and rebuild our lines to build a solid foundation for success. Our D is getting older and I don’t know how long this ship can stay afoalt. Perhaps a sinking is in order.
 
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Not a bad post.... but, I don't like that idea... All we need it that last PUSH... I want to see my team win SOMETHING...
 
Well when you got a Coach that thinks the oppositions MLB is a DT and that MLB was "D" player of the month, I think you may not have a guy paying attention.
 
I know that Wanny has made mistakes and isn't at the same caliber as our previous coaches, but its not JUST about him and his decisions. The problem with this team is that the trends have been around way before he came and may be much larger than just his coaching abilities. If Shula couldn't do it, if JJ couldn't do it, what makes you think the next coach will be able to??
 
Originally posted by Bumrush
I know that Wanny has made mistakes and isn't at the same caliber as our previous coaches, but its not JUST about him and his decisions. The problem with this team is that the trends have been around way before he came and may be much larger than just his coaching abilities. If Shula couldn't do it, if JJ couldn't do it, what makes you think the next coach will be able to??
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I agree it's probably not the Coach or staff, being in Tampa and having to go to sportsbars to watch games, I get to see the Phins a lot.


J.J. had a interesting take on why the problems exist on ESPN.

The Phins experience early success in a season because the heat/humidity DOES effect cold/outdoor teams and the cold/outdoor games DO effect the Phins late in the season. It was the one constant he could point to.

As he noted that is why it's important to win the early games (all games important) JJ also noted the Phins would not be where they are today if they had beat the Texans early.
 
I agree with you about why it is so hard to get over the top. I disagree with you about the coaching in a way. My biggest problem with DW is that he doesnt seem to have any control over this team at all.

I mean I understand the only way to make all phin fans happy is to win and as soon as we lose then BAM ... there are 8 million different reasons why they shouldnt of done what they did ... and it would be entirely different if the plays had worked, then instead of tearing the coach up we would be saying ... that was a great call.

I also understand that the players are the ones who make the plays ... not the coaches. So bad play by the players really cant be attributed to the coaches (granted, discipline or lack of can be) which is why I think DW does not have control of this team. It is not disciplined ... it is not well prepared consistantly week to week.

BUT, the most important reason I am personally against DW is actually in agreement with you 100%, just a different way of looking at it. I know we dont get a lot of chances to upgrade our team through the draft because we are one of the best franchise's, which makes having the ability to evaluate talent the most important thing for our coach. DW just does not have the ability to evaluate the talent that is out there. He couldnt do it in Chicago, and although his picks are actually better here than they were there he still has not gotten it done.
 
Originally posted by Bumrush
Guys, I have been thinking a lot about why the Phins constantly have troubles stepping it up to the next level. I think a large part of the reason for our failures has been the simple fact that we do not have the talent that many of the top tier teams in the NFL have.

Lets face it- We haven't had a top 5 pick since possibly the 1960's!! (someone correct me if thats wrong). JJ came in here and got a nasty rap sheet, but in retrospect he did a fantastic job in building a defense that is still a top 5 defense years later. Zach, Madison, Surtain, Taylor were excellent draft picks and have turned out to be defensive studs..

What I’m trying to get at is that the Phins do not consistently have the opportunity to upgrade their team via the draft to pick up big offensive lineman like Boselli who can anchor an entire line. They do not have early picks to pick up a Mike Vick or a Donovan Mcnabb or a talented, highly rated QB to groom. The success of this team is also its biggest downfall. Shula, arguably the greatest coach of all time could not get the job done since 1986, the last time we played an AFC Championship game at home. Jimmy Johnson, a man who never tasted failure was beat 62-7 and was run out of town with the greatest QB of all time.

Maybe we are being to harsh on Wanny. Look at what is required to get a franchise player like Ricky Williams. We basically have to give up our draft for two years. It doesn’t surprise me anymore when you see Super Bowl champs such as the Ravens, Tampa, NE, St Louis and others that are never really picked to do anything. Their past failures and abilities to pick up key free agents along with top draft picks gives them a window of success that is much shorter than a team like the Dolphins, who always wind up at the middle to the top of the pack. Unfortunantly, it is possible that the only way we will ever see a Lombardi trophy in Miami is after we go through some tough stretches and rebuild our lines to build a solid foundation for success. Our D is getting older and I don’t know how long this ship can stay afoalt. Perhaps a sinking is in order.
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i totally understand what you're saying and i can't argue a whole lot with it. But looking at the flip side of what you're saying, i tend to think that the HC is the first line of a team. Sure, we may not have the benefit of earlier picks, but the hC is a guy who is supposed to be able to effectively deal with these things. tens years ago was more problematic in that there was no FA to rob so you basically stocked your team via the draft and an occassional trade, That was it then and today, we still have that PLUS FA making more talent [altho pricey] available to all. FA has brought parity to the league and more teams are more even talent-wise. That means the coached need to be sharper and be more creative in the things they do and knowing their priorites. Wannstedt, IMO, has failed miserably in this department. He even said himself last year that OL is our #1 priority and that we'd have one of the best passing games around, etc. Well, all of that was hogwash because it was just talk, something he felt everyone wanted to hear and he would get more "atta boy, Dave"s and keep his job more secure. So, what did he do? Absolutely nothing for the O side actually. Derrius Thompson was the FA joke of the decade, he lied to Dixon about not being the LT anymore. Two very good tackles were available in Gandy and Turley but he didn't make any serious offers to either citing lack of cap space as the main reason all the while he's "creative" enough to find cap space for guys like Jr and Sammy. We're talking the #3 D in the NFL last year and that unit didn't need "fixing" nearly as much as our O did and still does. BTW, that "fixing" has our D down to the current 11th in the league, so that proves that "talent" alone isn't always enough. So while i do agree with what you said in a sense, I still believ that it all starts with the head coach. We could have 4 #1s coming up as did the jets a few yrs ago, but it would hardly make a difference if we have nobody to coach/use them properly. ;)
 
I agree with what you are saying but I have to make a small correction. Shula actually got the team to a home AFC Championship Game in January 1993, only to lose to the Bills. Boy, doesn't THAT seem like a long time ago.....
 
I dont buy it, BB is doing a great job less talent then we have. The coaching staff is sucking, as some have said this year we have noticed how important that HC position is.
 
Its a good point but I think we have plenty of talent to win it all and coaching is a big soft spot for this team. An example would be NE. One may say they are loaded with talent but I would disagree. They have a fair amount and this year alot have been injured. The coach is the X factor that puts mediocre talent in the position to become sucessful. He also amanges his talent well. Look what he did to Bledsoe. He trade him inside the division. We all still have to deal with him twice a year and Bill is always in Drew's head. Win-win for NE. Oh and he replaced the #1 overall pick (Drew) and replaced him with a low rounder that has been SB MVP and maybee NFL MVP this year. He coaches pretty well and MAKES that team great.
 
Originally posted by MacAttack
I dont buy it, BB is doing a great job less talent then we have. The coaching staff is sucking, as some have said this year we have noticed how important that HC position is.
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ae you kidding me? he has MORE talent!

QB- Pats
RB- Dolphins
WR- Pats
Oline- Pats
Dline- Dolphins
LB- Push
DB- Dolphins

pats win/loss is 4-3-1 infavor of NE.. less talent my ***.
 
Originally posted by Blueprint_21


ae you kidding me? he has MORE talent!

QB- Pats
RB- Dolphins
WR- Pats
Oline- Pats
Dline- Dolphins
LB- Push
DB- Dolphins

pats win/loss is 4-3-1 infavor of NE.. less talent my ***.
Click to expand...

I disagree with your assesment of the WRs and LBs
The phins have better LB and WRs especially with Brown and Colvin out. They are playing Ward anf stokes for god sake. They were on their couch sundays just a few weeks ago. Now they are getting yards for BB (or weiss).
 
DW had the responsability to upgrade this team in the offseason.

He went out and got pretty good players that did amazing things for us but now we can see that what they bring is not enough to compensate for what they don't (offense).

How many times have we seen our defense making great plays to give back the ball to the offense just to see them turn it over again.
 
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