It's the same problem as last year

[Spiff]

We've discussed Ryan Tannehill a lot this week and while I believe he didn't play well at all in the first three games I still believe he's going to be a very good QB when all is said and done. I'm not trying to make any excuses for him, I'm just stating what I think I saw on the game tape.

I just watched the first half of the Chiefs game again and they're basically doing the same thing defensively that the Bills already did: they are able to pressure Tannehill with their front four. The Bills sent a four-man-rush on 80 percent of the pass plays. The Chiefs even topped that in the first half (haven't watched the 2nd half again but I would think there's not much of a difference): they had a four-man-rush on 21 of 24 pass plays. That's 87.5 percent. On the strip-sack against Tannehill, the Chiefs' front four beat six blockers. There's nothing more toxic to the success of an offense than if the defense is able to consistently pressure the QB with its front four. Just ask Tom Brady after their 18-1 campaign.

I still see the same ****ty pass protection that we saw last year. The offensive line once again could define our season. Or how creative Lazor can get. There's really almost nothing an offense can do if four are enough to pressure your QB. If the defense drops 7 into coverage, it's almost impossible to get open. Screens are not going to work consistently because defenders are all over the place. The difference between this year and the last is that we seem to run the ball very well. We need to use this to our advantage and to slow the defense down. So I'm expecting a lot more runs and play action passes against Oakland. And I'd love to see we finally go back to that fast paced offense of the first drive against Atlanta in preseason.

 

[artdnj]

And I'm still waiting for the uptempo O to appear

 

[Sons Of Shula]

NEW OFFENSE

5 NEW O-LINEMAN
Give it a rest already and let the facts soak in that implementing a new offensive system in the NFL take time. :crazy: It's really not that difficult. If you want to bitch about these things after weeks 8-10 then you have the green light. Otherwise, you have no foundation for generalizations.

 

[J. David Wannyheimer]

I expect the pass pro to improve when Pouncey gets back. Satele played a good game vs Wilfork but struggled the last 2 weeks. At least, I hope it will improve.

I'd also like to see if they can get Billy Turner on the field or at least Shelley Smith back, because although both of them have their issues in pass blocking, good Lord Dallas Thomas is not good.

 

[finfan54]

Buffalo did provide nice film on us, but someone like the apeman can figure out why when and where you nail tannehill. They played tight on WR's which we do not do. Which then triggered the coaching up of the defensive front to get there hands up to block those quick hits because of tight coverage.

Its time to use some TE and not just clay and also roll ryan out. misdirect. did we see any of that much? thinking not other than wallace end around.

we did start using that stupid wide behind the RB motion taking a player completely out of the picture.

 

[roy_miami]

There are 3 aspects to pass protection:
1. coaching/play calling
2. the QB
3. the actual players responsible for pass protection

We spent vast resources on the players responsible for pass protection. We've completely changed the coaches and offense. There is only one aspect we haven't changed so if our problems still looks the exact same despite those other changes then I think I know what the issue is.

Peyton Manning shows whats possible with respect to pass pro. He's not just a great QB but he's also a great coach, and maybe one of the best playcallers in the league. And I'm not even talking about just amongst QBs, I think he's a better coach/playcaller than most offensive coordinators. So Peyton Manning kind of allows you to separate QB play and coaching/playcalling from the players responsible for pass protection. The one thing Peyton can't control is the skill level of specific players relative to the defensive players, sometimes guys are just going to get beat by a great player. So Manning gives you a baseline of whats possible and if you look through his stats you'll see he's never been sacked more than 29 times. His average is 17 sacks a season.

With that in mind there is no way you can say Tannehill is not responsible for the majority of our sacks, because if you swap him out with Manning we probably wouldn't have any more than 20 this season. If QBa takes 20 and QBb takes 50 with everything else being equal how can you say QBb isn't somewhat responsible for the extra 30 sacks?

 

[Sons Of Shula]

. So Manning gives you a baseline of whats possible

baseline - a minimum or starting point used for comparisons.

Peyton Manning is arguably the best quarterback to ever play the game. There is no possible way that Peyton Manning could be used as the starting point in any "baseline" comparisons. From a football aspect, nothing Peyton does could be considered average. Nothing. Horrible post.

 

[roy_miami]

baseline - a minimum or starting point used for comparisons.

Peyton Manning is arguably the best quarterback to ever play the game. There is no possible way that Peyton Manning could be used as the starting point in any "baseline" comparisons. From a football aspect, nothing Peyton does could be considered average. Nothing. Horrible post.

Who said anything about anybody being average? I thought my point was clear, Manning is as close to perfect as you'll get. If a race car driver makes a perfect lap, that is the baseline. That doesn't mean you have to be perfect, but if you're not perfect you shouldn't start blaming things like the tires or the engine.

If just swapping Manning for Tannehill results in a 20 sack season how could the o-line possibly be at fault for more than that?

Pass protection is a lot more complex than just seeing one fat guy run by another fat guy on your fat TV screen.

 

[roy_miami]

This gif is getting a lot of play but it illustrates what I'm trying to say perfectly. Tannehill notices a blitzer and changes the play to a hot play and he gets the ball out a half a second before the guy on the backside gets to him. The QB did what he was supposed to on this play. A lot of QBs and probably even the old Tannehill himself would have gotten smoked with a bone crushing sack, and had that happened I would bet you dollars to nickels most would blame Miller for it. But as you can see when the QB performs the play as designed the sack is not possible, so how could Miller ever be considered at fault?

 

[Sons Of Shula]

Who said anything about anybody being average? I thought my point was clear, Manning is as close to perfect as you'll get... If just swapping Manning for Tannehill results in a 20 sack season how could the o-line possibly be at fault for more than that?

Pass protection is a lot more complex than just seeing one fat guy run by another fat guy on your fat TV screen.

You did by referencing the word baseline and I gave you the verbatim definition. Your baseline needs a variable that can be increased or decreased with it's comparative data. Using PM's near perfection as a baseline doesn't make any sense. I'm not sure how else to point out the fault of your argument here.

I also don't need some silly analogy pointing out the importance of the trenches. Unless you can come up with something relevant, I'm not going to waste my time searching through my posts to prove it to you otherwise.

 

[Dmarino110]

NEW OFFENSE

5 NEW O-LINEMAN
Give it a rest already and let the facts soak in that implementing a new offensive system in the NFL take time. :crazy: It's really not that difficult. If you want to bitch about these things after weeks 8-10 then you have the green light. Otherwise, you have no foundation for generalizations.

so because tannehill has a new scheme and 5 new olineman we give him a pass for doing the same crap hes been doing since his 1st game? (getting balls by dlinemen, not attempting to run until he has a defender on him, going through progression so slowly that he never just throws the ball away, taking sacks because he goes through his progression so slowly, an inability to throw any pass but a come back route with any accuracy, the inability to throw the ball past 10 yards with any accuracy, the inability to throw a timing route...)

tell me, when is the game gonna slow down for him because i thought 35 games would be enough...I dont like parcels any more but he said if they dont bite as pups, they dont bite...hes had enough time, he doesnt bite, he never will...its time to play the rest of the season with zero expectations, zero stress and wonder who our next qb, coach, and GM is because these 3 are gone at the end of he season...

 

[roy_miami]

You did by referencing the word baseline and I gave you the verbatim definition. Your baseline needs a variable that can be increased or decreased with it's comparative data. Using PM's near perfection as a baseline doesn't make any sense. I'm not sure how else to point out the fault of your argument here.

I also don't need some silly analogy pointing out the importance of the trenches. Unless you can come up with something relevant, I'm not going to waste my time searching through my posts to prove it to you otherwise.

Sooooo... you don't know what the word baseline means so you call my post stupid....

Here's a hint: baseline /= average. If I meant average, I would have said average.

 

[ronnienchambers]

This gif is getting a lot of play but it illustrates what I'm trying to say perfectly. Tannehill notices a blitzer and changes the play to a hot play and he gets the ball out a half a second before the guy on the backside gets to him. The QB did what he was supposed to on this play. A lot of QBs and probably even the old Tannehill himself would have gotten smoked with a bone crushing sack, and had that happened I would bet you dollars to nickels most would blame Miller for it. But as you can see when the QB performs the play as designed the sack is not possible, so how could Miller ever be considered at fault?

I am by no means a scheme expert but shouldn't he have looked Millers way since Miller didn't chip anyone by design it seems and was so wide open he would still be running ? Not questing your analysis just asking a real question.

 

[slk018]

This gif is getting a lot of play but it illustrates what I'm trying to say perfectly. Tannehill notices a blitzer and changes the play to a hot play and he gets the ball out a half a second before the guy on the backside gets to him. The QB did what he was supposed to on this play. A lot of QBs and probably even the old Tannehill himself would have gotten smoked with a bone crushing sack, and had that happened I would bet you dollars to nickels most would blame Miller for it. But as you can see when the QB performs the play as designed the sack is not possible, so how could Miller ever be considered at fault?

I know this asking a lot-
I know its a quick slant and ball needs to come out. But, if he can see Hartline doesn't win inside (he rarely wins anything) and flip his hips/ shoulder to lamar Miller who is wide open with nobody around man that's a big play.

---------- Post added at 10:24 AM ---------- Previous post was at 10:23 AM ----------

also, maybe Hartline would have caught that if he planned on falling down like usual.. He actually stayed on his feet, an uncomfortable position for him

 

[J. David Wannyheimer]

I know this asking a lot-
I know its a quick slant and ball needs to come out. But, if he can see Hartline doesn't win inside (he rarely wins anything) and flip his hips/ shoulder to lamar Miller who is wide open with nobody around man that's a big play.

---------- Post added at 10:24 AM ---------- Previous post was at 10:23 AM ----------

also, maybe Hartline would have caught that if he planned on falling down like usual.. He actually stayed on his feet, an uncomfortable position for him

While I agree that we should stop throwing slants to Brian Hartline, the guy's the starting WR. If you can't trust him to make a basic play when it's there, what the hell is he doing on the field?