PhinfanBo1
Scout Team
Hey guys, long time no post...still read every single day and am still appaled by the level of ignorance regarding decisions the front office makes.
Please-if you are going to insult a move or a player, that's fine, but use some substantial information to back it up more than, "this random site has the oakland raiders up-the-middle rush offense ranked very low, so he must be terrible." Maybe, but I think the play calling/guards/running backs etc. play a pretty big role in that. Not to mention the fact that Grove has missed time so it's not a fair indication of his play. Throw that stuff out of the window or use it to support film study, not the basis of an opinion. That's not even legitimate enough to be considered an informed opinion in any sense!!
Anyway, Grove is a guy that I remember getting drafted highly and being a tough-as-nails center coming out of Va. Tech. Since then, I'll admit, I haven't really followed his career because, well, how often am I going to really watch the Oakland center? Not much.
There's this great thing on nfl.com where you pay 19.99 and it lets you watch ALL of the games from every team from this past season in high definition with no commercials. Pretty sweet deal, huh? THIS IS MORE THAN A HINT - a lot of posters on here NEED to have this. It will make your life a lot better and take away unnecessary anxiety over things that may or may not be true.
I watched Grove's first half against Vince Wolfork and the first half plus a couple series in the 2nd half vs. the Jets. Pretty good barometer to see him block against these teams we face twice a year, who happen to have two of the biggest and best nose tackles in all of football. Here's what I saw in note form. I just jotted down each play in sequential order and only watched Grove.
VS. Pats:
1 – sweep play, successful, didn’t block wilfork
2- drives wilfork into ground
3- zone block; didn’t block wilfork
4-shields off wilford 1/1 although he gets somewhat pushed back. Does his job, allows rb to get outside
5-zone block, does his job, doesn’t go against wilfork
6-does his job, not against wilfork.
7-zone block, doesn’t go against wilfork
8- good double block helping on wilfork and the end
9-good help on the double
10-I missed the play
11- wilfork falls down in front of grove
12- 3rd and 1, pushes Wilfork back and run goes right up his *** for a first down
13-good awareness on combo block as Oakland goes for TD
14-wildcat, hits second level, gets his man very well. OFFSIDES penalty
15- Grove picks up wilfork one-on-one in pass pro. No pressure. Shows nice foot speed
16-dives at his man, makes contact. Kind of a sloppy play that picks up a few
17-does what he can against wilfork who just makes a great play to make the stop with his size. Nothing was stopping vince there, and no one.
18-blocks wilfork 1-1 as play goes outside. Looked like a hook or a hold. No call. Guess it was a good block then.
19-does a nice job in the zone scheme, hits wilfork then moves on.
20-good 1-1 block vs. wilfork on run play opens hole
21-trips up wilfork to get him out of the play
22-nice straight ahead run block against wilfork, holds position
23-zone block, moves to help, good awareness
24-completely handles wilfork as play goes right by
25-good block on two guys but Russell gets picked
1st half vs. jets
1-good sweep block as play picks up yardage
2-nice combo block
3-fairly successful sweep block as they double jenkins but play gets stuffed
4-trips up Jenkins 1-1 as play goes by
5-great block on 2nd level
6-hits Jenkins, whiffs on 2nd level as play gets stuffed
7-does his job in double of Jenkins, holds ground strong
8-screen pass, play passes before his block comes on 10 yards down field
9-blocks ellis well 1-1 in 3rd and long situation
10-does his job in double team of Jenkins
11-hard to see what his role was. Play gets stuffed near goal line after 1 yard gain. Looks like he did ok vs. Jenkins and lb’s came through.
12-zone block, comes off Jenkins, gets his guy. TD called back. Weird play.
13-pulls out, gets good block on second level
14-zone block, does fine. Nothing noteworthy
15-1-1 with #91, Grove runs over him (the backup)
16-gets to second level with good block on successful play
17-good job on the double team
18-1-1 with Jenkins. Wrestles him down. Good block, shows very good strength against the massive Jenkins. Pretty good.
19-doubles Jenkins then comes off, play runs into the pile. Double on Jenkins is what caused this by design
20-good double team block on Jenkins
21-good awareness as true center looking to help against 4 man rush. Pretty much picture perfect.
22-see 21. Passing situations.
23-trips Jenkins, keeps fighting and stay son his feet till end of play
24-ok awareness and vision on pass block
25-fights thru to get good block on second level
26-good block on second level and keeps driving with tenacity, good push
27-WOW. Stands up Jenkins, fights him 1-1 and Oakland gets the first down accordingly on 3rd and short. Good stuff.
28. again holds Jenkins off. This time pass block. Jenkins gets some push but not much and there’s ample time to throw.
29. ellis slips him, but Russell gets the ball away
30. gives up sack to ellis who beats him 1-1 in pass pro on last play of half
2nd half
31-completely walls off Jenkins 1-1 as run goes by. TURNS him, and opens hole. Satele can’t do this. Period.
32- again a very strong block on Jenkins 1-1 opening big hole. Him and LG directly responsible for this nice run.
33-gets him walled off one way,reverse play, trips him coming back the other way! (Jenkins)
34- would’ve been a good opp. To see him vs. Jenkins 1-1 but it’s a motion penalty on 77
35-one on one vs. Jenkins in pass pro. Gets him. Good job, smart blocker who understands positioning
36-not much to note on zone block/Russell throw away
37-strong block on #91, urn right behind
38-gets some push on 91, run for short gain
39-gets to 2nd level, doesn’t take great angle so doesn’t really finish his block.
Not bad not good.
40-on goal line vs. good front, would’ve been 1-1 with Jenkins but a penalty on 77 AGAIN. Glad we didn’t get this guy!
41-decent block on TD play.
9:35 3rd quarter, cut (my girlfriend was pretty upset that I was watching every play by a center from the oakland raiders for an hour and a half, lol, so i stopped. but i got what i needed)
Guys, Jake Grove is pretty good. He's a true center. He's a strong guy who positions his body and his hands properly and has good leg drive. They do a lot of zone blocking in Oakland and he didn't go 1-1 vs. the NT's as much as I would've liked but when he did, he MORE than held his own. The only times I saw him struggle even a little bit was with a quicker player (i.e. Ellis on passing downs). I think he was a little bit out of position in Oakland because he is more geared to be a power blocker in a power scheme like ours. I think he was good there and will be better with us, if he can stay healthy. If this guy can put on 10 pounds and stay healthy, we have our center. He is NOT Satele, who is a finesse, pulling type of blocker with probably more athleticism. Grove is athletic enough, but he is a mauler blocker with tenacity. He reminds me a lot of Justin Smiley from their college days through the pros, only he's a pure center.
If we sign him, which it looks like we will, don't expect a 3 year, 8 million dollar deal. I have a feeling it's going to be a 5 year contract worth right around 5 million a year. I think they really like this guy and think he's the center we're looking for. Look for them to keep developing Murphy and have Berger as another backup inside who they like, that will give us insurance because Smiley has had injury problems as has Grove. I think Satele will be traded on draft day because he's out of place here.
BTW, I'm a sports writer at the University of Maryland; I know some of you guys put more emphasis on the opinions of sports writers and broadcasters than average fans. The only difference is that I care enough to do be thorough in trying to understand something before I write about it. Plug in NFL rewind for yourself, look at some tape and then let's have an educated discussion. thanks.
P.S. - they're gonna look for play makers in the draft this year. remember jimmy johnson's definition? they're using free agency to plug some holes with the right guys, and then they're going to draft the playmakers. mark it down.
-Bo
Please-if you are going to insult a move or a player, that's fine, but use some substantial information to back it up more than, "this random site has the oakland raiders up-the-middle rush offense ranked very low, so he must be terrible." Maybe, but I think the play calling/guards/running backs etc. play a pretty big role in that. Not to mention the fact that Grove has missed time so it's not a fair indication of his play. Throw that stuff out of the window or use it to support film study, not the basis of an opinion. That's not even legitimate enough to be considered an informed opinion in any sense!!
Anyway, Grove is a guy that I remember getting drafted highly and being a tough-as-nails center coming out of Va. Tech. Since then, I'll admit, I haven't really followed his career because, well, how often am I going to really watch the Oakland center? Not much.
There's this great thing on nfl.com where you pay 19.99 and it lets you watch ALL of the games from every team from this past season in high definition with no commercials. Pretty sweet deal, huh? THIS IS MORE THAN A HINT - a lot of posters on here NEED to have this. It will make your life a lot better and take away unnecessary anxiety over things that may or may not be true.
I watched Grove's first half against Vince Wolfork and the first half plus a couple series in the 2nd half vs. the Jets. Pretty good barometer to see him block against these teams we face twice a year, who happen to have two of the biggest and best nose tackles in all of football. Here's what I saw in note form. I just jotted down each play in sequential order and only watched Grove.
VS. Pats:
1 – sweep play, successful, didn’t block wilfork
2- drives wilfork into ground
3- zone block; didn’t block wilfork
4-shields off wilford 1/1 although he gets somewhat pushed back. Does his job, allows rb to get outside
5-zone block, does his job, doesn’t go against wilfork
6-does his job, not against wilfork.
7-zone block, doesn’t go against wilfork
8- good double block helping on wilfork and the end
9-good help on the double
10-I missed the play
11- wilfork falls down in front of grove
12- 3rd and 1, pushes Wilfork back and run goes right up his *** for a first down
13-good awareness on combo block as Oakland goes for TD
14-wildcat, hits second level, gets his man very well. OFFSIDES penalty
15- Grove picks up wilfork one-on-one in pass pro. No pressure. Shows nice foot speed
16-dives at his man, makes contact. Kind of a sloppy play that picks up a few
17-does what he can against wilfork who just makes a great play to make the stop with his size. Nothing was stopping vince there, and no one.
18-blocks wilfork 1-1 as play goes outside. Looked like a hook or a hold. No call. Guess it was a good block then.
19-does a nice job in the zone scheme, hits wilfork then moves on.
20-good 1-1 block vs. wilfork on run play opens hole
21-trips up wilfork to get him out of the play
22-nice straight ahead run block against wilfork, holds position
23-zone block, moves to help, good awareness
24-completely handles wilfork as play goes right by
25-good block on two guys but Russell gets picked
1st half vs. jets
1-good sweep block as play picks up yardage
2-nice combo block
3-fairly successful sweep block as they double jenkins but play gets stuffed
4-trips up Jenkins 1-1 as play goes by
5-great block on 2nd level
6-hits Jenkins, whiffs on 2nd level as play gets stuffed
7-does his job in double of Jenkins, holds ground strong
8-screen pass, play passes before his block comes on 10 yards down field
9-blocks ellis well 1-1 in 3rd and long situation
10-does his job in double team of Jenkins
11-hard to see what his role was. Play gets stuffed near goal line after 1 yard gain. Looks like he did ok vs. Jenkins and lb’s came through.
12-zone block, comes off Jenkins, gets his guy. TD called back. Weird play.
13-pulls out, gets good block on second level
14-zone block, does fine. Nothing noteworthy
15-1-1 with #91, Grove runs over him (the backup)
16-gets to second level with good block on successful play
17-good job on the double team
18-1-1 with Jenkins. Wrestles him down. Good block, shows very good strength against the massive Jenkins. Pretty good.
19-doubles Jenkins then comes off, play runs into the pile. Double on Jenkins is what caused this by design
20-good double team block on Jenkins
21-good awareness as true center looking to help against 4 man rush. Pretty much picture perfect.
22-see 21. Passing situations.
23-trips Jenkins, keeps fighting and stay son his feet till end of play
24-ok awareness and vision on pass block
25-fights thru to get good block on second level
26-good block on second level and keeps driving with tenacity, good push
27-WOW. Stands up Jenkins, fights him 1-1 and Oakland gets the first down accordingly on 3rd and short. Good stuff.
28. again holds Jenkins off. This time pass block. Jenkins gets some push but not much and there’s ample time to throw.
29. ellis slips him, but Russell gets the ball away
30. gives up sack to ellis who beats him 1-1 in pass pro on last play of half
2nd half
31-completely walls off Jenkins 1-1 as run goes by. TURNS him, and opens hole. Satele can’t do this. Period.
32- again a very strong block on Jenkins 1-1 opening big hole. Him and LG directly responsible for this nice run.
33-gets him walled off one way,reverse play, trips him coming back the other way! (Jenkins)
34- would’ve been a good opp. To see him vs. Jenkins 1-1 but it’s a motion penalty on 77
35-one on one vs. Jenkins in pass pro. Gets him. Good job, smart blocker who understands positioning
36-not much to note on zone block/Russell throw away
37-strong block on #91, urn right behind
38-gets some push on 91, run for short gain
39-gets to 2nd level, doesn’t take great angle so doesn’t really finish his block.
Not bad not good.
40-on goal line vs. good front, would’ve been 1-1 with Jenkins but a penalty on 77 AGAIN. Glad we didn’t get this guy!
41-decent block on TD play.
9:35 3rd quarter, cut (my girlfriend was pretty upset that I was watching every play by a center from the oakland raiders for an hour and a half, lol, so i stopped. but i got what i needed)
Guys, Jake Grove is pretty good. He's a true center. He's a strong guy who positions his body and his hands properly and has good leg drive. They do a lot of zone blocking in Oakland and he didn't go 1-1 vs. the NT's as much as I would've liked but when he did, he MORE than held his own. The only times I saw him struggle even a little bit was with a quicker player (i.e. Ellis on passing downs). I think he was a little bit out of position in Oakland because he is more geared to be a power blocker in a power scheme like ours. I think he was good there and will be better with us, if he can stay healthy. If this guy can put on 10 pounds and stay healthy, we have our center. He is NOT Satele, who is a finesse, pulling type of blocker with probably more athleticism. Grove is athletic enough, but he is a mauler blocker with tenacity. He reminds me a lot of Justin Smiley from their college days through the pros, only he's a pure center.
If we sign him, which it looks like we will, don't expect a 3 year, 8 million dollar deal. I have a feeling it's going to be a 5 year contract worth right around 5 million a year. I think they really like this guy and think he's the center we're looking for. Look for them to keep developing Murphy and have Berger as another backup inside who they like, that will give us insurance because Smiley has had injury problems as has Grove. I think Satele will be traded on draft day because he's out of place here.
BTW, I'm a sports writer at the University of Maryland; I know some of you guys put more emphasis on the opinions of sports writers and broadcasters than average fans. The only difference is that I care enough to do be thorough in trying to understand something before I write about it. Plug in NFL rewind for yourself, look at some tape and then let's have an educated discussion. thanks.
P.S. - they're gonna look for play makers in the draft this year. remember jimmy johnson's definition? they're using free agency to plug some holes with the right guys, and then they're going to draft the playmakers. mark it down.
-Bo
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