Jake Long vs. Joe Thomas | FinHeaven - Miami Dolphins Forums

Jake Long vs. Joe Thomas

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wildvillage519

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I have to be honest, if the Brown's came calling (which they won't) and sid we will trade you Joe Thomas for Jake Long, I would do it in a heart beat.

What I'm trying to say is I see all of these threads comparing the two of them a lot and IMO the two are no comparison. Yes Jake Long may be stronger and have longer arms (I have heard everyones argument). But the bottom line is that Joe Thomas is just a better football player, plain and simple.

I am a Dolphins fan, but I will be admitt this now b4 the season starts. I think Jake Long is going to be a bust. And I am not saying that based on any articles I've read since the draft. I didn't want to draft Jake Long in the 1st place.

I know most of you read these threads everyday (I know I do), but even b4 the draft I wrote a thread saying I wanted to draft Chris Williams from Vanderbilt. He's the best LT and closest to what Joe Thomas is out of this draft. IMO when we look back on this draft in a couple years Chris Williams will be the name everyone's goign to wish we traded down a little (even if it ment not taking such a great deal to do it) and drafted him. Again, just my opinion.
 
I agree with most of your post, but to say Long will be a bust...I just think he has too much skill, too great of a mindset, and too good of a coaching staff to turn out to be a bust. I don't think he'll be as good a LT as Thomas is, but he sure as hell will be a darn good one.
 
Wasn't Jake Long just as good as or better than Joe Thomas in college? Aweful silly to label someone that talented a bust before he even plays one snap in the NFL.
 
lol i can assure you that your opinion will turn out to be completely wrong. I watched him in high school and in college and he is going to be one bad*** LT for the phins for years to come i promise you that. every rookie has a learning curve including your boy joe, but i guess only time will tell and i cant wait to see him do work on sundays.
 
There was a post on another site where a guy compared JL's kick steps (3 steps into pass pro) against various OTs. Against Thomas the tester (who pre-draft had not wanted us to draft JL) and many others were surprised that JL actually got there marginally quicker (.05 seconds quicker). He acknowledged that Thomas looked smoother doing it but Thomas certainly wasn't there any faster. In fact, JL was almost as fast as Walter Jones whom many see as an elite pass protector. And seeing how most everybody agrees that JL will probably be an elite run blocker I don't share your pessimism.
 
wildvillage519 said:
I have to be honest, if the Brown's came calling (which they won't) and sid we will trade you Joe Thomas for Jake Long, I would do it in a heart beat.

What I'm trying to say is I see all of these threads comparing the two of them a lot and IMO the two are no comparison. Yes Jake Long may be stronger and have longer arms (I have heard everyones argument). But the bottom line is that Joe Thomas is just a better football player, plain and simple.

I am a Dolphins fan, but I will be admitt this now b4 the season starts. I think Jake Long is going to be a bust. And I am not saying that based on any articles I've read since the draft. I didn't want to draft Jake Long in the 1st place.

I know most of you read these threads everyday (I know I do), but even b4 the draft I wrote a thread saying I wanted to draft Chris Williams from Vanderbilt. He's the best LT and closest to what Joe Thomas is out of this draft. IMO when we look back on this draft in a couple years Chris Williams will be the name everyone's goign to wish we traded down a little (even if it ment not taking such a great deal to do it) and drafted him. Again, just my opinion.
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I am following you...i think...:unsure:

So you are saying you were dead set against taking long with our first pick- so much so you guaranteed that we wouldn’t take him. So now you kind of feel like you have cake on your face so you (correct me if I am wrong) hoping he will fail (so you can say I told you so) or you are doing your best to save face by telling everyone that Jake long is a bust before he plays one down.

Gotcha- I think.

Sometimes threads get a little complicated, you have to look hard for a reason for the post.
 
ok. i agree with your post, on the aspect that thomas has proved himself as of yet or at least for a year. plus he cheaper as of now.

however. joe thomas and jake long are totally different tackles. especially in there styles of play. where thomas excells at mirroring and finessing his opponent jake long excells at grinding his opponent down and physically pounding his man to the the ground.

so because of there differences in style. jake long in theory, makes more sense for the style of offense it appears we will be running. our offense it appears will use jakes strength to attack, the right side of the D line. where as cleveland will rely joes strength to seal off anderson so they can attack through the air.

so. how about lets at least wait to see jake play some, before we start throwin around the bust word. who knows. maybe jake lives up and exceeds expectations. maybe hell earn a rep for bein the nastiest, meanest o lineman in the game. if that happens and hes gouging wastelands on the D lines right side. would that still make him a bust?
 
studsatele said:
ok. i agree with your post, on the aspect that thomas has proved himself as of yet or at least for a year. plus he cheaper as of now.

however. joe thomas and jake long are totally different tackles. especially in there styles of play. where thomas excells at mirroring and finessing his opponent jake long excells at grinding his opponent down and physically pounding his man to the the ground.

so because of there differences in style. jake long in theory, makes more sense for the style of offense it appears we will be running. our offense it appears will use jakes strength to attack, the right side of the D line. where as cleveland will rely joes strength to seal off anderson so they can attack through the air.

so. how about lets at least wait to see jake play some, before we start throwin around the bust word. who knows. maybe jake lives up and exceeds expectations. maybe hell earn a rep for bein the nastiest, meanest o lineman in the game. if that happens and hes gouging wastelands on the D lines right side. would that still make him a bust?
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actually his posts explains exactly why he called jake long a bust when he said
I didn't want to draft Jake Long in the 1st place.
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Its the old-God i was way to admamant about taking someone else with our first pick, now i have to save face by calling him a bust-trick
 
yeah dream, i know. but i have this compulsiveness to make sense or at least an imitation of sense where none might appear. just cant help it.
 
wildvillage519 said:
I have to be honest, if the Brown's came calling (which they won't) and sid we will trade you Joe Thomas for Jake Long, I would do it in a heart beat.

What I'm trying to say is I see all of these threads comparing the two of them a lot and IMO the two are no comparison. Yes Jake Long may be stronger and have longer arms (I have heard everyones argument). But the bottom line is that Joe Thomas is just a better football player, plain and simple.

I am a Dolphins fan, but I will be admitt this now b4 the season starts. I think Jake Long is going to be a bust.And I am not saying that based on any articles I've read since the draft. I didn't want to draft Jake Long in the 1st place.

I know most of you read these threads everyday (I know I do), but even b4 the draft I wrote a thread saying I wanted to draft Chris Williams from Vanderbilt. He's the best LT and closest to what Joe Thomas is out of this draft. IMO when we look back on this draft in a couple years Chris Williams will be the name everyone's goign to wish we traded down a little (even if it ment not taking such a great deal to do it) and drafted him. Again, just my opinion.
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Based on what exactly??? Has Jake played a down in the NFL yet??? ..Sorry...Pointless, negative BS.
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Hey, everyone is entitled to his opinion, cut the guy some slack. We may not agree with it, but let's not slag him for a differing opinion.

That said, I think there will be a lot of doubters that are going to be surprised by Jake Long. I don't know whether it will be in year 1, 2 or 3, but I believe that fairly soon he is going to establish himself as a truly dominant LT and a lock for the Pro Bowl. He has done fantastically well at pass protection, has good lateral quickness and a fantastic build for pass protection including good footwork and great arm length. He has superior power. The one hole is that he has good footwork ... not great footwork, and that he has good quickness, not the best quickness. But, these things are a bit illusory. His quickness is better than many Pro Bowl LT's today ... it really is; but people only want to compare him to combine times. As far as footwork goes and technique, every rookie lineman needs work on those, and Long is no different.

While Thomas may allow more sacks this season than last, he's still going to progress as a player. Those of you preferring Thomas to Long really are in for a bit of a let down IMHO. Thomas would be better for a Cam Cameron offense, or a dominant passing attack like we had with Marino back in tha day. But for a smashmouth offense that uses the run to set up the pass, Long is simply the better player. He isn't a poor pass blocker, that's a myth created by people looking for holes to talk about in TV or fill column inches. He is a fantastic pass blocker who is going to be a good LT pass protector in the NFL. If people thought Vernon Carey was decen they're going to see a huge upgrade with Long even as a rookie.

Now, run blocking is not Thomas' forte, and frankly there are very few LT's who are dominant run blockers. The NFL is the home of the asymmetric defense. The right side of the defense has dominant speed rushing DE's in a 43 and dominant speed rushing OLB's in a 34. They also send CB's and S's at the QB's blind side and up the middle because the most pressured point is the QB's blind spot. That being said, most defenses have heavier and stronger players on their defensive left side, to stop the run.

Jake Long is a guy who will consistently dominate running left. So much so that he is going to absolutely wreck defensive systems that use speed edge rushers on their defensive right. We'll run left all friggin day until they change their formation or overload the side or bring the safety up and put 8 in the box.

Facing 8 in the box, Ginn is going to make some plays. Even a well run slant or screen is something that's a potential TD with Ginn on the field. Jake Long means that defenses will need to start doing things th at aren't playing to their own strengths, which makes Long worth his weight in gold. Joe Thomas simply cannot do that, even on his best day. While I am in no way slagging Thomas, I really don't think most people realize just how significant a dominant run blocking LT can be to a team. It basically puts a sign out there in the opposing coaches face saying "HELLO, WE CAN AND WILL RUN LEFT ON YOU ALL FRIGGIN DAY AND IN THE 4TH QUARTER YOUR DEFENSE WILL WILT." Every coach knows this, and they cannot tolerate it, so they'll adjust by forcing players out of position, like swapping in slower guys just to stop the run, or blitzing/gambling a lot, or just playing a S in the box at all times. Essentially, we just drafted the only 7'0 player in a game of pickup basketball, and the next tallest guy is 5'11. That's the reason if we hadn't picked Jake Long #1 he would have gone #2, and was probably at the top of the board for most teams.

I'm glad you're impressed with Joe Thomas, but I think you will eventually become even more impressed with Jake Long. Of course, that's simply my opinion.
 
rafael said:
There was a post on another site where a guy compared JL's kick steps (3 steps into pass pro) against various OTs. Against Thomas the tester (who pre-draft had not wanted us to draft JL) and many others were surprised that JL actually got there marginally quicker (.05 seconds quicker). He acknowledged that Thomas looked smoother doing it but Thomas certainly wasn't there any faster. In fact, JL was almost as fast as Walter Jones whom many see as an elite pass protector. And seeing how most everybody agrees that JL will probably be an elite run blocker I don't share your pessimism.
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Forgive me if I'm mistaken, but wasn't it a comparison with Vernon Carey?
 
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