Jake wont make us awesome...

[RonMexico7]

Ive seen a few posts now that just appear to be massively overexaggerating the impact that JL would have for us - "look what thomas did for the browns" etc. Ye thomas did well - a massive success in fact, but the Browns didnt make the playoffs. They didnt make the playoffs with a pro bowl QB, a pro bowl WR and a pro bowl TE - 3 things that we can pretty much guarantee we wont have next year.

JL would be an immediate starter i agree - but his impact compared to other need positions wouldnt be greatly larger, if at all IMO. realistically, everything is on becks shoulders - he has massive pressure on him, and in a draft with decent depth at tackle we could still draft a tackle at 32 who could do a good job protecting him.

I think other players could have a bigger impact making plays on the defensive side of the ball.

if we had tom brady at QB and no one to protect him then id say ye grab jake long with both hands! but when youve got an unproven QB, why drop a 1# overall on an LT - youd need JL to become a legend, and then beck to become a legend. lets face it JL could give up no sacks or hurries all season and beck could still throw 25 ints.

too many things need to fall our way to justify him at 1 IMO.

 

[PerfectTeam]

Well people assume that Jake Long is already a starting caliber nfl LT and use the combine to compare jake long and joe thomas. Well if you watch the tape of jake long, you see the biggest difference between him and joe thomas: the feet. Jake long doesnt have the necessary foot quickness to play LT without getting help from the TE or RB. His kickslide is only adequate and so is his lateral agility. You can quote combine stats all you want, but the combine is not the end all be all. Look at the film of the guy, outside speed with a quick inside move gives him fits. Now Im not saying jake long is not going to be a good or pro bowl tackle. I just dont think he would reach his potential on the left side compared to the right.

 

[burger13]

I can't believe how short-sighted so many posters on this board are......

ususally my argument against people not thinking of the long term is an argument against taking Jake Long, because their only reason seems to be that he fills our biggest CURRENT need.

but the same argument works here........who cares if he will have the biggest impact THIS year? We can get the best player in the draft.....it shouldn't matter who fills the biggest need this year, who'll have the biggest impact this year.

think long-term people.

 

[PerfectTeam]

I can't believe how short-sighted so many posters on this board are......

ususally my argument against people not thinking of the long term is an argument against taking Jake Long, because their only reason seems to be that he fills our biggest CURRENT need.

but the same argument works here........who cares if he will have the biggest impact THIS year? We can get the best player in the draft.....it shouldn't matter who fills the biggest need this year, who'll have the biggest impact this year.

think long-term people.

well looking long term, JT is 34 and JP is 31. Chris Long fits a position that needs a serious injection of youth and talent and could anchor an important position for the next 10 to 15 years.

 

[burger13]

well looking long term, JT is 34 and JP is 31. Chris Long fits a position that needs a serious injection of youth and talent and could anchor an important position for the next 10 to 15 years.

:up:

I agree.

I personally don't care who they take.....my reasoning is very simple: Parcells and Ireland have proven to know a lot more about evaluating football talent than i do.

I just can't stand the arguments over the #1 pick that center on what the '08 Dolphins need, and don't take the next 10 yrs into consideration.

We will take the best football player for the future of the Miami Dolphins.

 

[miamiron]

well looking long term, JT is 34 and JP is 31. Chris Long fits a position that needs a serious injection of youth and talent and could anchor an important position for the next 10 to 15 years.

At least we ave JT and Porter

What do we have on the team in way of left tackles?

A converted right tackle and thats it!

Tell me where the real need is????

 

[PerfectTeam]

At least we ave JT and Porter

What do we have on the team in way of left tackles?

A converted right tackle and thats it!

Tell me where the real need is????

A converted right tackle that seemed to play fairly well. I guess we should take a tackle at the top of the draft that alot of people seem to think wont be a good fit at LT. See drafting for need at the top instead of best available talent gets you in trouble.

 

[burger13]

At least we ave JT and Porter

What do we have on the team in way of left tackles?

A converted right tackle and thats it!

Tell me where the real need is????

and next year we may not have JT or Porter.....or BOTH

I'm not saying that these are the grades....I'm just throwing out a scenario:

Jake Long grades out as a 95
Chris Long grades out as a 98

TAKE CHRIS LONG! don't sacrafice talent because of a perceived need. team needs change year-to-year. Get the best player in the draft and there will be no regrets.

 

[Kyndig]

Ive seen a few posts now that just appear to be massively overexaggerating the impact that JL would have for us - "look what thomas did for the browns" etc. Ye thomas did well - a massive success in fact, but the Browns didnt make the playoffs. They didnt make the playoffs with a pro bowl QB, a pro bowl WR and a pro bowl TE - 3 things that we can pretty much guarantee we wont have next year.

JL would be an immediate starter i agree - but his impact compared to other need positions wouldnt be greatly larger, if at all IMO. realistically, everything is on becks shoulders - he has massive pressure on him, and in a draft with decent depth at tackle we could still draft a tackle at 32 who could do a good job protecting him.

I think other players could have a bigger impact making plays on the defensive side of the ball.

if we had tom brady at QB and no one to protect him then id say ye grab jake long with both hands! but when youve got an unproven QB, why drop a 1# overall on an LT - youd need JL to become a legend, and then beck to become a legend. lets face it JL could give up no sacks or hurries all season and beck could still throw 25 ints.

too many things need to fall our way to justify him at 1 IMO.

Dude, Jake Long would start immediately whereas it's not a sure thing that Chris Long or Vernon Gholston would, they'd have to beat out either JT or Joey Porter. That being said, they could certainly get on the field in the rotation and have an opportunity to make a few plays. But...

Jake Long fills a significant need on our O-line where we simply don't have a starting guard and tackle. Even if he started at right tackle this year, the impact he would have on our running game would be huge. A running game would take pressure off of Beck and would keep the defense off the field and fresher as well as keep the other opposing offense off the field. They can't score if they're off the field. In fact, I say Jake Long could have a bigger impact on our defense because of that then either Gholston or Long who would be hard pressed to crack the starting lineup at outside linebacker on our team and who are too small to play Defensive end in an nfl 3-4. If some fan like me can see that, I guarantee you the front office sees that and more.

 

[PerfectTeam]

:up:

I agree.

I personally don't care who they take.....my reasoning is very simple: Parcells and Ireland have proven to know a lot more about evaluating football talent than i do.

I just can't stand the arguments over the #1 pick that center on what the '08 Dolphins need, and don't take the next 10 yrs into consideration.

We will take the best football player for the future of the Miami Dolphins.

Exactly. People are under the assumption that Jake Long is going to come here and be a saviour at LT even though we dont necessarily need one. Carey did just fine at LT last year. 3 sacks, 7 false starts, and a 5.9 ypa. Not exactly horrible for his first year. Id rather go with someone who has last questions about him in Chris Long then find out what alot of people have been saying in that Jake Long is going to have trouble being out on an island in the nfl due to his lack of foot agility.

 

[3rdandinches]

Well people assume that Jake Long is already a starting caliber nfl LT and use the combine to compare jake long and joe thomas. Well if you watch the tape of jake long, you see the biggest difference between him and joe thomas: the feet. Jake long doesnt have the necessary foot quickness to play LT without getting help from the TE or RB. His kickslide is only adequate and so is his lateral agility. You can quote combine stats all you want, but the combine is not the end all be all. Look at the film of the guy, outside speed with a quick inside move gives him fits. Now Im not saying jake long is not going to be a good or pro bowl tackle. I just dont think he would reach his potential on the left side compared to the right.

The only person(s) assuming anything are the ones with this sad, sad excuse of J.Long not having J.Thomas's foot speed. Since when was J.Thomas the measuring stick for all Left Tackles, so I guess other things you need from Joe is to have shorter arms and lack any real strength. Is there anything else ?

If he's not a LT then why is BP/JI even considering him, oh ya he's a smokescreen, ya that's it. Yes he easily would be a dominant RT because of his obvious brute strength and nasty style of run blocking but your over anayalizing the foot speed difference between two very different LT's.

J.Thomas has exceptional foot work and it allows him to be in position to fend off the DE but his shorter arms and lack of upper body power doesn't allow him to get separation after first contact so he needs that foot work just to stay in front of the DE's, otherwise DE's would be spinning and ripping through Joe all day.

J.Long has a longer wing span and the strength to not only deliver a blow to defenders but he can get enough separation to allow himself to get his feet set up again. This also allows enough time for the QB to step up into the pocket to still deliver the pass.

The fact that you and others compare him to either J.Thomas or the other extreme in R.Gallary is a joke. Jake is his own man that punishes people in run blocking and applies that same aggression in his pass protection and by his career at Michigan he's shown it to be very successful. Is he J.Thomas? No of course not, do I want him to be? No, I want the big nasty not the guy who may be the first OLineman on dancing with the stars!!!! J.Long will bring an attitude to our Oline, something that has been missing for a long time.

 

[PerfectTeam]

Dude, Jake Long would start immediately whereas it's not a sure thing that Chris Long or Vernon Gholston would, they'd have to beat out either JT or Joey Porter. That being said, they could certainly get on the field in the rotation and have an opportunity to make a few plays. But...

Jake Long fills a significant need on our O-line where we simply don't have a starting guard and tackle. Even if he started at right tackle this year, the impact he would have on our running game would be huge. A running game would take pressure off of Beck and would keep the defense off the field and fresher as well as keep the other opposing offense off the field. They can't score if they're off the field. In fact, I say Jake Long could have a bigger impact on our defense because of that then either Gholston or Long who would be hard pressed to crack the starting lineup at outside linebacker on are team and who are too small to play Defensive end in an nfl 3-4. If some fan like me can see that, I guarantee you the front office sees that and more.

Do you pay a RT number one type money? No, its not smart business. The only tackles that are worth that kind of money are franchise LT's and Jake Long is not in the the Pace, Jones, Ogden or Bosseli class at all. He isnt even in the Joe Thomas class of LT prospects.

You make the arguement that Jake Long helps the defense by keeping the offense off the field with the running game. Let me ask you this, when teams get the ball and keep scoring on our porous defense, how do we run the ball?

With all that being said, Parcells and Ireland believe in fixing defenses first, offenses second.

 

[fishypete]

A converted right tackle that seemed to play fairly well. I guess we should take a tackle at the top of the draft that alot of people seem to think wont be a good fit at LT. See drafting for need at the top instead of best available talent gets you in trouble.

Well I guess if we always draft the best player....we have a team made up of RB's...QB's...and linebackers...gee what a joy!

 

[3rdandinches]

Exactly. People are under the assumption that Jake Long is going to come here and be a saviour at LT even though we dont necessarily need one. Carey did just fine at LT last year. 3 sacks, 7 false starts, and a 5.9 ypa. Not exactly horrible for his first year. Id rather go with someone who has last questions about him in Chris Long then find out what alot of people have been saying in that Jake Long is going to have trouble being out on an island in the nfl due to his lack of foot agility.

We don't necessarily need one but somehow we need a OLB???????

You also say VC did an adequate job so then why not draft a OLB to do an adequate job on defense?

C.Long lacks high end speed for a speed rushing OLB but that's okay apparently you don't need speed to play a speed rushing OLB. C.Long is under sized for DE but that's okay because he's C.Long. We have two Probowl OLB's but they MIGHT be gone some time so we need to replace them now. We can't draft a OLB later and have him learn from two Probowlers and be very well prepared when they finally are no longer with the team. We have NO OT or OG but we can find them in the later rounds and learn on the fly in a real hurry.
VC did an adequate job at LT but would make a great RT so by filling one position with J.Long at LT we instantly get a much better RT than anyone that would be leftover by the 2nd round, so we improve two positions with one move. J.Long is a 10-15 year solution and a fix for 2008 what a bonus.

 

[PerfectTeam]

The only person(s) assuming anything are the ones with this sad, sad excuse of J.Long not having J.Thomas's foot speed. Since when was J.Thomas the measuring stick for all Left Tackles, so I guess other things you need from Joe is to have shorter arms and lack any real strength. Is there anything else ?

If he's not a LT then why is BP/JI even considering him, oh ya he's a smokescreen, ya that's it. Yes he easily would be a dominant RT because of his obvious brute strength and nasty style of run blocking but your over anayalizing the foot speed difference between two very different LT's.

J.Thomas has exceptional foot work and it allows him to be in position to fend off the DE but his shorter arms and lack of upper body power doesn't allow him to get separation after first contact so he needs that foot work just to stay in front of the DE's, otherwise DE's would be spinning and ripping through Joe all day.

J.Long has a longer wing span and the strength to not only deliver a blow to defenders but he can get enough separation to allow himself to get his feet set up again. This also allows enough time for the QB to step up into the pocket to still deliver the pass.

The fact that you and others compare him to either J.Thomas or the other extreme in R.Gallary is a joke. Jake is his own man that punishes people in run blocking and applies that same aggression in his pass protection and by his career at Michigan he's shown it to be very successful. Is he J.Thomas? No of course not, do I want him to be? No, I want the big nasty not the guy who may be the first OLineman on dancing with the stars!!!! J.Long will bring an attitude to our Oline, something that has been missing for a long time.

So you keep saying its an excuse that Jake Long doesnt have Joe Thomas's foot quickness, could you provide a link where someone says that Jake Longs feet are at the elite level as people have said about Joe Thomas's? Scouting reports and film I have seen keep saying that there are questions about his feet and lateral agility. You can quote the combine all you want. Last I checked football wasnt played in shorts and t shirts. Its why the combine isnt the end all be all. Its why there is film. If you watch the film breakdowns mike mayock does, it shows why jakes long feet arent considered elite.

The dolphins can negotiate with whoever they want, last time i checked it doesnt make Jake Long the pick.

Joe Thomas got over his lack of arm length because of how quick his feet are. Jake Long overcame alot of college pass rushers because of his long arms and strength. Not his feet. At the nfl level, he wont be able to do it as easily.

You keep talking about Jake Longs strength, nastiness and all that. Sounds alot like Jon Runyan. Do I want Jon Runyan at number one overall? Nope.