Jeff Ireland = no impact . Trying to be safe, you'll only end up being sorry, & LOSE

[footsteps_falco]

at this point i dont care how he brought the talent in but i just look at this core that he's acquired. i also look at the type of players and i see tony sparano written all over this roster, but i still like these players and think ireland will sprinkle some philbin guys on this group and it can and should be successful quickly.


offense:
tier 1 players:: jake long, reggie bush, davone bess, anthony fasano, mike pouncey, (brandon marshall**)
tier 2 players:: richie incognito, daniel thomas, brian hartline, charles clay, matt moore

defense:
tier 1 players:: cameron wake, karlos dansby, randy starks, paul soliai, vontae davis, richard marshall, (kendal langford**)
tier 2 players:: kevin burnett, sean smith, jared odrick

special teams:
dan carpenter, brandon fields


it's a start, it's something to build on. a lot of people wouldn't put fasano in tier 1, but a lot of football fans like him and so do i. i think all of these tier 1 guys could start on about 75% of NFL teams.

 

[CRAZYDOLFAN305]

Not discounting your emotions or opinion, but bring some data with you when throwing around words like "worthless hack". I don't always like everything he does, but he has made some good football decisions. He deserves some scrutiny like all of us, but bring some football knowledge with you when addressing his moves. How do you really know Garrard doesn't concern defenses if he is fully healthy. A West Coast Offense doesn't require a #1 receiver. More like three #2 kind of guys because that offense spreads the wealth around instead of going to one guy, like Marshall. Ranting is ok and you are entitled to do it, but when you cool off think of this analytically a little.

LMAO, you have a better chance winning the 493 Million Dollar powerball, than this happening.

 

[damanref10]

where is hartine, bess, odrick, misi, clay, etc.

this is based of the authors OPINION and NOT FACT.

is it impact players? or is it starters? or is it who the author considers SHOULD BE a starter?

b/c last i checked hartline is a starter with some clutch catches and TDs, Bess is basically a starter and was undrafted, clay had an impact last season and was never intended to "unseat fasano" , misi was a starter for a while good or not, odrick was a starter before he got hurt and made some plays last season as part of the rotation, Sean smith you SAY the team is looking to replace smith - but you dont KNOW this at all. he is a 3 year STARTER. spitler is a role playing special teamer who was drafted in the later rounds. . . or undrafted FA? Resahad jones started last year - clemmons the year before we'll see this year.


all in all - article sucks lol. all opinion and speculation, not actually the truth.

credibility destroyed.

"last time you checked"... he had 6 TD's in........ 40 games. and one of those was a rushing td.

 

[islandah]

I wanna see what kind of foundation he builds this year with Philbin on board. If we don't make any kind of progress, then Ireland likely be gone anyways and I won't have any opposition with it.

I agree. This is the year I'll judge him on, need to see significant progress from a personnel standpoint. I'm patient and have understood how bare the cupboards were when he got here, how he needed to restock the core fundamental players first. Last year was his first solo draft and while safe and not too sexy, it was pretty solid. Let's see what he does this year, with a different style of shopping list from his new wco hc (fast and versatile vs big and, well, big), and hopefully some impact players (wr, pass rusher, qb).

 

[SnakeoilSeller]

Umm Ireland should get EXACTLY ZERO credit for not overpaying Orton since Ross was the one who VETO'ed that decision... Your brilliant boy Jeff had the contract in hand all ready for Orton's 'John Han****' when ROSS said NO. but really what choice did Ireland have than to overpay for other teams castaways when he didn't even bother to select a developmental project? Ireland handcuffed HIMSELF...

Seriously, What leverage did he have with Denver when he had NOBODY in house???? So MOORE was actually the 'fallback' after the owner said 'hells no' to Orton. And you want to give Ireland credit??????

The point was... And STATED... that it didn't matter who they selected. The fact that he didn't even get in on the bidding tells me all I need to know about Jeff. He either overrated Henne or didn't value the position... We are in PRECISELY the same spot as last year heading into the draft... In fact some might argue WORSE off... And yet people want to applaud him for being 'forward' thinking. Unreal.

You know this how? Because you read it somewhere on the internet right? So if it is on the internet it must be true.

 

[SnakeoilSeller]

We should have drafted Ryan Mallett, who would have been a much wiser investment than trading up to get a not-so-special running back in Daniel Thomas.

Because he has shown so much in the pros? You may be right, but it is very convenient to make an argument that cannot be proven wrong. Currently Mallet is the 3rd string QB in New England, and that is where he will be for at least another season.

 

[Spesh]

You know this how? Because you read it somewhere on the internet right? So if it is on the internet it must be true.

Feel free to click sig.

 

[Kinzua]

Feel free to click sig.

According to that article, neither Ross nor Ireland wanted Orton. Ross didn't want to overpay for a backup (Henne was the starter in July 2011) and Ireland didn't think he was worth a third round pick. As it was, Orton was later released.

Kinzua's rule #4 is never, ever trade for another team's failed starting QB. It's pure poison (as all Fin fans should know from the disastrous Daunte Culpepper trade). If a QB was any good, his current team wouldn't be trying to trade him. Ireland gets props for not wasting a pick.

 

[Spesh]

According to that article, neither Ross nor Ireland wanted Orton. Ross didn't want to overpay for a backup (Henne was the starter in July 2011) and Ireland didn't think he was worth a third round pick. As it was, Orton was later released.

Kinzua's rule #4 is never, ever trade for another team's failed starting QB. It's pure poison (as all Fin fans should know from the disastrous Daunte Culpepper trade). If a QB was any good, his current team wouldn't be trying to trade him. Ireland gets props for not wasting a pick.

The article stated that Jeff Ireland didnt want Orton...for a third round pick. Which is why Denver and Miami agreed on trading a 4th round pick for Orton. That is, they agreed on the trade before Ross looked at it then clutched his head and began screaming at the apparent insanity of the trade.

Edit: second link here, from Adam Schefter. Its from the ESPN archives, so if you click the link be prepared to have to root it out.

But the Dolphins look doomed, not unlike a trade the team nearly completed this summer. Just when the Dolphins were about to trade a fourth-round pick to the Broncos for quarterback Kyle Orton in August, Dolphins owner Stephen Ross declined to pay the three-year, $27 million extension that the quarterback and Miami already had agreed to, league sources said. When Ross declined to pay Orton, the deal blew up. Now Miami's season almost has.

http://m.espn.go.com/nfl/story?storyId=7031691&wjb=

 

[Kinzua]

Spesh:

I can't see that Orton would have been considered an upgrade to Henne. Orton has had several stops around the league, and he's always done well at first but then his game's deteriorated. I'm not sure why that happens but it seems to be Orton's career pattern. When this trade was proposed, Henne definitely had more upside than Orton.

Furthermore, I would say that today, Moore also has more upside than Orton. Moore has limited experience as a starter. He has never been the starter going into TC where he will get most of the attention from the coaches, most of the snaps, and work primarily with the first teamers. It makes a difference.

From his work in 2011, Moore could make a very nice QB with a decent team around him. That Ireland and Ross passed on Orton to go with Henne and Moore is a positive for them not a negative. Swinging for the fences on three straight pitches and striking out with guys in scoring position is NOT "winning". Hitting an opposite field single to bring home a run or two is a much better strategy.

 

[fishbanger]

I think GM has done a good job drafting for the Defense. I think mistakes were made in giving up 2 second rounders for Marshall. We could have easily drafted 2 starting WRs with those picks.

GM has not done that great a job on the offense outside of Long and Pouncy. Some people argue that Matt Ryan would have provided more value then Long to the FRanchise. Hartline was 4th round pick and Bess UDFA. Bess was good pickup. Bottomline GM needs to use some of his higher picks on playmakers for the offense which he has not really done over the last 4 year.

So I think choosing Philbin as HC was a good move as he has a good record with developing OL without having to use first round picks and WRs and QBs. Look what he did with 7th rounder Flynn.

 

[Fish-Head]

You know this how? Because you read it somewhere on the internet right? So if it is on the internet it must be true.

Thankfully 'Spesh' cleared this up, just a couple posts above this one. :thumbup: Even though it was pretty much common knowledge. Amazing how often the Orton 'veto' to Miami is used in defense of Ireland...

 

[Fish-Head]

Spesh:

I can't see that Orton would have been considered an upgrade to Henne. Orton has had several stops around the league, and he's always done well at first but then his game's deteriorated. I'm not sure why that happens but it seems to be Orton's career pattern. When this trade was proposed, Henne definitely had more upside than Orton.

Furthermore, I would say that today, Moore also has more upside than Orton. Moore has limited experience as a starter. He has never been the starter going into TC where he will get most of the attention from the coaches, most of the snaps, and work primarily with the first teamers. It makes a difference.

From his work in 2011, Moore could make a very nice QB with a decent team around him. That Ireland and Ross passed on Orton to go with Henne and Moore is a positive for them not a negative. Swinging for the fences on three straight pitches and striking out with guys in scoring position is NOT "winning". Hitting an opposite field single to bring home a run or two is a much better strategy.

He wasn't advocating bringing Orton to south beach... He was merely clearing up the fact that Ireland in fact DID want him over Henne and it was Ross who came to his senses first.

Secondly I have a real problem with using Moore as yet another defense of Ireland when all these moves happened by default... I don't think anyone can argue that Jeff Ireland did not do everything in his power to (rightly or wrongly) go after the name free agent QB's out there this offseason... Hardly a ringing endorsement of Moore... So to sit back and say 'Well done Jeff' for standing pat and going with 'Plan C' is just plain wrong.

Truth is, Moore was freaking Plan 'D' when Ireland acquired him in the first place... When he didn't bother to draft a QB... After Ross nixed the Orton deal and then when Henne went down... Moore went in. So we are now applauding Ireland for getting it 'right' in spite of himself.

 

[Phanatical]

He wasn't advocating bringing Orton to south beach... He was merely clearing up the fact that Ireland in fact DID want him over Henne and it was Ross who came to his senses first.

Secondly I have a real problem with using Moore as yet another defense of Ireland when all these moves happened by default... I don't think anyone can argue that Jeff Ireland did not do everything in his power to (rightly or wrongly) go after the name free agent QB's out there this offseason... Hardly a ringing endorsement of Moore... So to sit back and say 'Well done Jeff' for standing pat and going with 'Plan C' is just plain wrong.

Truth is, Moore was freaking Plan 'D' when Ireland acquired him in the first place... When he didn't bother to draft a QB... After Ross nixed the Orton deal and then when Henne went down... Moore went in. So we are now applauding Ireland for getting it 'right' in spite of himself.

Ireland brought Moore in who did very well in relief of Henne. You can spin that however you want, but Ireland did a good job on that one. To deny that fact is simply ignoring reality.