Joe Philbin & Mike Sherman's Use of Ryan Tannehill: A Square Peg in a Round Hole?

[Shouright]

Take a good look at Ryan Tannehill here:

[video=youtube;ClxFYIThbAE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ClxFYIThbAE[/video]

It doesn't take long watching that to figure out that Ryan Tanehill's style of play was different at Texas A&M than it is with the Miami Dolphins. He's throwing on the move a whole lot more in that video.

We have this quote from Joe Philbin just 10 days ago:

But coach Joe Philbin spoke Saturday about Tannehill’s nature to hold on to the ball, but said he doesn’t necessarily need to run more.

“You’d rather have a guy who’s comfortable standing in there and then speeding it up as opposed to a guy who’s always running out of there, always seeing ghosts,” Philbin said.

Two metrics devised by Football Outsiders list Tannehill as one of the four worst running quarterbacks in the league, and Philbin said the staff is working with Tannehill on gaining first downs in specific situations. Philbin described it as part of any quarterback’s development process.

But he reiterated his preference for Tannehill’s poise.

“It’s better to have a guy willing to sit in there and function while some stuff’s compressing around him as opposed to, ‘I thought I felt something. I’ve got to get out of here,’ ” Philbin said.

Now, that's all well and good. It may make some sense to take some time to have Tannehill develop his ability to scan the field and throw from the pocket, given his relative inexperience at the position.

However, the Dolphins are currently leading the league in sacks surrendered (24), and are second in the league in yards lost on sacks (148). They're leading the league in the percentage of times they're sacked when attempting to pass (11.7%). Peyton Manning by contrast leads the league with a meager 2.4%.

Ryan Tannehill is currently 20th in the league in net yards per attempt (6.0), which factors in sacks and yards lost on sacks and is strongly correlated with wins. Peyton Manning currently leads the league in net YPA with 9.1.

The Dolphins are 29th in the league in total rushing attempts, and 20th in the league in yards per rush (3.7), and I think you have to wonder why they aren't showing more of a commitment to the run to take the pressure off of Tannehill.

Now, of course the team is 3-2, which is a positive sign, but they've been outscored by their opponents 117 to 114, and they're currently ranked 24th in total yards on offense (19th in the league in yards per play). Although they've played the second strongest schedule in the league to this point (Packers are 1st), I think we have to wonder, given the above offensive statistics, whether that's been done with "smoke and mirrors" on the offensive side of the ball.

So the upshot for me here is a serious question about Philbin and company's mindset in playing Ryan Tannehill so differently from what we see in that Texas A&M clip above.

 

[finjim]

So in another thread you said that Philbin is coaching Tannehill to stay in the pocket????


Which is it??

 

[DolfanDuBbZ~]

Let me know when the Phins play Iowa State.

 

[UFGators]

I don't blame you for being frustrated that Tannehill does not roll out more.
But keep in mind 2 things:
Playcalling is designed for what he feels comfortable with.
When he rolled out, he threw some picks, and sacks are better than picks.

 

[roy_miami]

Take a good look at Ryan Tannehill here:

[video=youtube;ClxFYIThbAE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ClxFYIThbAE[/video]

It doesn't take long watching that to figure out that Ryan Tanehill's style of play was different at Texas A&M than it is with the Miami Dolphins. He's throwing on the move a whole lot more in that video.

We have this quote from Joe Philbin just 10 days ago:



Now, that's all well and good. It may make some sense to take some time to have Tannehill develop his ability to scan the field and throw from the pocket, given his relative inexperience at the position.

However, the Dolphins are currently leading the league in sacks surrendered (24), and are second in the league in yards lost on sacks (148). They're leading the league in the percentage of times they're sacked when attempting to pass (11.7%). Peyton Manning by contrast leads the league with a meager 2.4%.

Ryan Tannehill is currently 20th in the league in net yards per attempt (6.0), which factors in sacks and yards lost on sacks and is strongly correlated with wins. Peyton Manning currently leads the league in net YPA with 9.1.

The Dolphins are 29th in the league in total rushing attempts, and 20th in the league in yards per rush (3.7), and I think you have to wonder why they aren't showing more of a commitment to the run to take the pressure off of Tannehill.

Now, of course the team is 3-2, which is a positive sign, but they've been outscored by their opponents 117 to 114, and they're currently ranked 24th in total yards on offense (19th in the league in yards per play). Although they've played the second strongest schedule in the league to this point (Packers are 1st), I think we have to wonder, given the above offensive statistics, whether that's been done with "smoke and mirrors" on the offensive side of the ball.

So the upshot for me here is a serious question about Philbin and company's mindset in playing Ryan Tannehill so differently from what we see in that Texas A&M clip above.

In this video you can clearly see he has the ability to feel pressure and get away from it, why he's regressed in that department is what the coaches need to figure out. I think 5 or 6 designed rollouts is what he needs more than anything. He throws well on the run, it'll help keep the D-line guessing and it may spark something in him to move his feet quicker when he is throwing from the pocket.

 

[spiketex]

Thx for the video. A few thoughts come to mind.
(1) The pocket awareness seems to have deteriorated. I don't know if that's a product of higher caliber pass rushers that he now faces every week or weaknesses on our O-line, but he seemed more inclined and better able to slide away from trouble before.
(2) These are only the highlights. It doesn't show the occasions when things went wrong in college. The danger in watching just the great highlights is that it can give you a false impression. (Anyone who saw the Ted Ginn Jnr college highlight video would understand what I mean).
(3) What a crying shame that Ryan Swope got too many concussions and is now out of the game. With good health, he could have been very good in the NFL and he clearly had good chemistry with Tannehill.

 

[sirvmac]

I'm glad people are waking up to this ****. Sherman has been holding Tannehill back.
Sherman is riding on Tannehill's coat tails imho. The only reason Sherman is in the NFL now is because his old student is hooking him up.
Dude got fired from A&M and they are happy as hell he is gone.
He is our problem now unfortunately.

Sherman is the classic old school, ''I won a super bowl, I know everything.'' type of ****.
He is not going to change I can guarantee that.
He just doesn't have the hunger/drive that somebody else who hasn't won anything would have.
Sherman was a good OC in his day, but at this time in his life he should just teach kids or whatever.

Gameplanning, calling plays, etc...he's just not NFL caliber.
I'm sick of looking around the league watching other teams with less talent than us doing a lot lot more.

 

[mrhankey81701]

What's the best way to slow down a pass rush? Screens and draws, unfortunately its been about 10 years since we ran a successful screen play.

 

[Shouright]

In this video you can clearly see he has the ability to feel pressure and get away from it, why he's regressed in that department is what the coaches need to figure out. I think 5 or 6 designed rollouts is what he needs more than anything. He throws well on the run, it'll help keep the D-line guessing and it may spark something in him to move his feet quicker when he is throwing from the pocket.

I'm not so sure he's regressed! Look at the throw to Gibson on 4th and 10 Sunday! :)

The quote from Philbin in the OP suggests that he'd rather have Tannehill get sacked than leave the pocket mistakenly. The premise of the thread is essentially that he may have plenty of escapability and throwing ability on the move that isn't being tapped right now, and is in fact being squelched by the instruction he's receiving from the coaching staff.

 

[Hayden Fox]

Joe and Sherm have done a GREAT job with RT. I just wish they had more solutions to protecting him before he gets hurt. That is my criticism.

 

[Shouright]

Joe and Sherm have done a GREAT job with RT. I just wish they had more solutions to protecting him before he gets hurt. That is my criticism.

And allowing him to move like he did in the Texas A&M clip isn't one of them?

 

[Hayden Fox]

And allowing him to move like he did in the Texas A&M clip isn't one of them?

I have no problem booting him out. However, you cannot win longterm with making plays on the edge which I do not think you are implying.

At the end of the day, a QB has to operate from the pocket. Most effective passing comes from the pocket and ultimately it should be the safest place for the QB on the field. He is not a passer anymore once he leaves the pocket. The rules protect him more from the pocket and he can use the entire field.

Booting, play action, max pro and trying use the run game more are all things I would like to see the team do.

 

[Shouright]

I have no problem booting him out. However, you cannot win longterm with making plays on the edge which I do not think you are implying.

At the end of the day, a QB has to operate from the pocket. Most effective passing comes from the pocket and ultimately it should be the safest place for the QB on the field. He is not a passer anymore once he leaves the pocket. The rules protect him more from the pocket and he can use the entire field.

Booting, play action, max pro and trying use the run game more are all things I would like to see the team do.

OK I'm with you there. What I'm against is instructing him to stay in the pocket rather than moving like he did on 4th and 10 in the 4th quarter Sunday. By doing that, with the way this team functions in relation to the pass rush, you're essentially trading a potential playoff berth for Ryan Tannehill's pocket passing development, as well as risking his health. He may be safer in the pocket due to the rules, but the pocket hasn't exactly been "safe" for him this year.

 

[The Goat]

You. I've been giving you a hard time as of late for some of the stuff you've been posting, and deservedly so (in my opinion)

In this instance, you are dead on correct.

That being said, there is nothing wrong with instilling NFL fundamentals before adapting extraordinary skills into those fundamentals.

Tanny throws a BEAUTIFUL ball on the run. Maybe the best I've ever seen (yeah, I said it). That does not mean that honing his skills as a pocket passer first and foremost need to be abandoned.

Make no mistake...we are honing a WEAPON here.

 

[joeharley666]

Basically this video shows me that he does have pocket awareness but is being coached to stay in the pocket plain and simple