Kiper or Mcshay
- Thread starter BARF
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23EmilioVasquez
Seasoned Veteran
both of them are idiots they I think they might get about 4 picks right out off each round
McShay has grown on me. 2 years ago when he first started he was pretty bad, but when they put him and Kiper together he got better. Last year he was tolerable, and using him on College Football live made him grow leaps and bounds. He's getting there though.
Kiper was great, but he's been living off rep the last couple year. What bugs me is when he and Berman know the pick before it comes in and they are talking about whose getting picked because it's announced. They did not do that this past year (I think ESPN told them to stop because fans got annoyed), but those two had been taking suspense away from the draft.
Personally, I think Mike Mayock's the best on NFL Network. He's been the most accurate on projections, is the best at analyzing film, and actually shows more than just 2 clips of a player.
Course, if you don't have NFLN and don't like ESPN, I suggest nfldraftcountdown.com with Scott Wright.
Kiper was great, but he's been living off rep the last couple year. What bugs me is when he and Berman know the pick before it comes in and they are talking about whose getting picked because it's announced. They did not do that this past year (I think ESPN told them to stop because fans got annoyed), but those two had been taking suspense away from the draft.
Personally, I think Mike Mayock's the best on NFL Network. He's been the most accurate on projections, is the best at analyzing film, and actually shows more than just 2 clips of a player.
Course, if you don't have NFLN and don't like ESPN, I suggest nfldraftcountdown.com with Scott Wright.
zach8111
Pro Bowler
mcshay is way better
SnakeoilSeller
Scout Team
I am a Kiper guy. Yeah, he is annoying but I feel like I grew up watching him. Plus, how can you not like a guy that has made his whole life around "guessing" about players talent, and never worked in the NFL.
There was a study floating around that rated the predictive power of all the draft gurus. I have links to it somewhere and will amend this if I can locate it. However both McShay and Kiper were somewhere in the middle on a few different reviews; not impressive at all.
What I do admire about Kiper though, being a former mktg guy, is that he's the one who invented/pioneered this specialization, and transformed it into a marketing bonanza. Gets lotsa props for that...but like Henry Ford and his first ever mass-production model T, after defining the market for awhile, he gave way to others mass-producing more innovative machines, like Chevrolet. Mel's a dynosaur, but an entertaining one.
What I do admire about Kiper though, being a former mktg guy, is that he's the one who invented/pioneered this specialization, and transformed it into a marketing bonanza. Gets lotsa props for that...but like Henry Ford and his first ever mass-production model T, after defining the market for awhile, he gave way to others mass-producing more innovative machines, like Chevrolet. Mel's a dynosaur, but an entertaining one.
Same here, I have been following Kiper and getting his books for over 18 years. I actually talked to him on the phone years ago before he hit big-time. I actually called to order his book and guess who answered. We talked about the Fins draft that year. He was great, very down to earth and talked with me for about 15 minutes.
I like Mayock as well and listen to the draft coverage from ESPN and NFL Network. I take in as much as I can get.
showstopper
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Adam schefter from NFLnetwork ruins the suspense too 30 seconds before the pick is announced HATE THAT!
tcdrover
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I prefer McShay too. Kiper is a blowhard.
Watching Kiper & that m0r0n Mort from ESPN argueing every chance they get is pretty tedious. I get the feeling that ESPN actually encourage them to go at it because they may feel it makes the draft more interesting.
Those draft magazines are what I've started to really get into. I think I have the Pro Football weekly pre-draft review & it was excellent. They had almost all of our draft picks very accurately ranked.
Watching Kiper & that m0r0n Mort from ESPN argueing every chance they get is pretty tedious. I get the feeling that ESPN actually encourage them to go at it because they may feel it makes the draft more interesting.
Those draft magazines are what I've started to really get into. I think I have the Pro Football weekly pre-draft review & it was excellent. They had almost all of our draft picks very accurately ranked.
kiper has the hair. mcshay needs something. he was down here for the gator's glorious victory and it looked like he had a really bad fake tan and no eyebrows. he should keep it up.
most experts aren't even experts. they're all just picking out of their ***.
most experts aren't even experts. they're all just picking out of their ***.
Stefins
Just a Dolphins Fan
Mike Mayock
RoninFin4
FinHeaven VIP
I like Mike Mayock better than both of them, but Kiper knows his stuff - he was the only major draft guy to even know who William Hayes (the Titans 4th round pick I believe, from Winston-Salem State) was; Mayock and McShay had nothing. Kiper does all his own research too - I know McShay and Mayock have help putting their stuff together. McShay pretty much copies off Mayock and passes it off as his own idea - 3 days after whatever Mayock says.
If you could combine Kiper's forecasting ability with McShay's diagnosis of team need; then ESPN might really have something that rivals Mayock.
If you could combine Kiper's forecasting ability with McShay's diagnosis of team need; then ESPN might really have something that rivals Mayock.
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I like to play percentages. In this case, that means going with the younger guy, McShay. There's simply too much to keep track of in that profession, and I like the younger guy's chances of being more single focused, less inclined to make mistakes, and still opportunity to improve. McShay has upped his game dramatically in the past year, noticeably more confident when paired with Kiper.
Admittedly, I'm drawing from my own experience. I'm nearing 50 and making more and more mistakes in personnel evaluation, so obvious the last few years that I've cut back studying all star games, etc. I've had fewer opinions and a higher percentage of them have been wrong, not a thrilling combo.
Luckily there are tradeoffs, like more reliable wagering systems. :D
Kiper is hardly over the hill but I sense less energy and creative evaluation. It's hardly dissimilar to 20+ years ago when he replaced the older crowd as the king pin. I remember buying a slew of draft guides in the mid to late '70s. This is hardly as recent a specialty as fans want to make it. In my sophomore year of college at USC, spring 1980, I did a paper for a Sports Information (SPIN) class, evaluating the draft gurus. There were at least a half dozen of them.
Kiper's lucky break was he was so much more "normal" in voice and appearance than Joel Buchsbaum of Pro Football Weekly. Buchsbaum came around many years before Kiper and was markedly superior. But he didn't play well on TV, was somewhat reluctant to appear, and was consequently used very sparingly on ESPN, opening the door for Kiper.
Admittedly, I'm drawing from my own experience. I'm nearing 50 and making more and more mistakes in personnel evaluation, so obvious the last few years that I've cut back studying all star games, etc. I've had fewer opinions and a higher percentage of them have been wrong, not a thrilling combo.
Luckily there are tradeoffs, like more reliable wagering systems. :D
Kiper is hardly over the hill but I sense less energy and creative evaluation. It's hardly dissimilar to 20+ years ago when he replaced the older crowd as the king pin. I remember buying a slew of draft guides in the mid to late '70s. This is hardly as recent a specialty as fans want to make it. In my sophomore year of college at USC, spring 1980, I did a paper for a Sports Information (SPIN) class, evaluating the draft gurus. There were at least a half dozen of them.
Kiper's lucky break was he was so much more "normal" in voice and appearance than Joel Buchsbaum of Pro Football Weekly. Buchsbaum came around many years before Kiper and was markedly superior. But he didn't play well on TV, was somewhat reluctant to appear, and was consequently used very sparingly on ESPN, opening the door for Kiper.
I think that's fair as McShay does do a better job at evaluating what each team needs and who fits their style. Kiper just stays strictly to his rankings.
