Lack Of Investment In Oline Is Our Biggest Downfall... | FinHeaven - Miami Dolphins Forums

Lack Of Investment In Oline Is Our Biggest Downfall...

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NJPHIN34

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For as many years as I can remember we have continuously neglected the offensive line. This, in my opinion, is our biggest undoing. Way more significant than any QB decision, WRs we have, RB etc. When you have a dominant Oline, all those positions seem to be and play just a little better. It couldn't be more clear than the Denver Broncos and their plug and play a 1000 yard RB system. But if you look at the consistently better teams in the league, they have really good offensive lines. I'd also like to point out the Eagles. Mcnabb goes down for the season and Garcia comes in and now has played 3 pretty good games. Is Garcia any better than the QBs on our roster? I tend to say no. Their backup QB is able to take over where the starter left off, because he has little pressure and a good running game to take pressure off. All due to a very solid offensive line.

We constantly look to fill 5/11ths of our offense with "cheap" alternatives instead of making a significant investment. While I'm not suggesting we wildly spend our money on the big names, we need a "star" on the oline. Why do we only settle for having a "star" at RB, WR and QB? We simply can't continue to be satisfied with mediocrity. We're not the Patriots, we can't pull guys out of truck stops and plug them in at guard.

Our biggest need this offseason is our offensive line. We need to work towards building a dominant offensive line, not merely a mediocre to good one. And until we do, we will continue to suffer through seasons of missing the playoffs, or early exits (oh how I would love one of them these days). Why do you think the Jets are having success this season? Because they didn't listen to their fans and wisely invested 2 first round picks in their offensive line's skill positions; LT and Center. The guys we have playing those positions are a 3rd and 6th rounder. They are serviceable players who would be better suited at "less skilled" positions persay.

We desperately need upgrades along the line, maybe the exception RT. Please please please either draft a excellent prospect or finally pay up for a proven commodity.
 
Nice post. I think the only 2 on our line that are untouchable are Carey and Hadnot. As far as LT, LG, and RG go, Shelton has done alright at RG, but I'd like to see what Fonoti can bring to the table. I know he played LG for the Chargers, and for the brief spell he played vs. Detroit this year, but I feel his best asset is run blocking. James is overpaid based on his production, and I'd like to really see us make a run at bringing Eric Steinbach here if he becomes a FA.

Steinbach's got the mobility to play LT as well, as he's done so in spells for Cincy when Levi Jones has been hurt. I also think it's time we drafted our own LT as well. Richmond Webb is the last LT that's been a standout player on our O-line. I definitely agree with you though, the O-line's gotta be addressed this offseason. Imagine what Houck can do with proven players rather than project draft picks and FA castoffs.
 
The last big investment we had in an OL was Vernon Carey. And he turned out quite nicely. We missed out on Marcus McNeill who'd be the prototypical Houck guy on the OL. Big yet mobile. All consistently good offenses have a good LT. Indy has Glenn, SD has McNeill, Seahawks have Walter Jones, the list goes on. Heck we had Richmond Webb. We need to make another big investment at our most vulnerable spot. Wade Smith and LJ Shelton just didn't cut it as a starter at LT.
 
It's a problem, but it isnt losing us games, and it isnt nearly as bad as it was early in the season.

It needs to be addressed, but quarterback play is by far and away #1 problem.
 
NJPHIN34 said:
For as many years as I can remember we have continuously neglected the offensive line. This, in my opinion, is our biggest undoing. Way more significant than any QB decision, WRs we have, RB etc. When you have a dominant Oline, all those positions seem to be and play just a little better. It couldn't be more clear than the Denver Broncos and their plug and play a 1000 yard RB system. But if you look at the consistently better teams in the league, they have really good offensive lines. I'd also like to point out the Eagles. Mcnabb goes down for the season and Garcia comes in and now has played 3 pretty good games. Is Garcia any better than the QBs on our roster? I tend to say no. Their backup QB is able to take over where the starter left off, because he has little pressure and a good running game to take pressure off. All due to a very solid offensive line.

We constantly look to fill 5/11ths of our offense with "cheap" alternatives instead of making a significant investment. While I'm not suggesting we wildly spend our money on the big names, we need a "star" on the oline. Why do we only settle for having a "star" at RB, WR and QB? We simply can't continue to be satisfied with mediocrity. We're not the Patriots, we can't pull guys out of truck stops and plug them in at guard.

Our biggest need this offseason is our offensive line. We need to work towards building a dominant offensive line, not merely a mediocre to good one. And until we do, we will continue to suffer through seasons of missing the playoffs, or early exits (oh how I would love one of them these days). Why do you think the Jets are having success this season? Because they didn't listen to their fans and wisely invested 2 first round picks in their offensive line's skill positions; LT and Center. The guys we have playing those positions are a 3rd and 6th rounder. They are serviceable players who would be better suited at "less skilled" positions persay.

We desperately need upgrades along the line, maybe the exception RT. Please please please either draft a excellent prospect or finally pay up for a proven commodity.
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OL and QB.

We've neglected both for years.
Jimmy's strategy was to pick up OL deep in drafts with late picks. Wanny followed suit and none ever panned out.
They didn't believe in bringing in even moderately priced FA OL either. In addition Wanny didn't place much importance on the QB to win a title as he proved with never even trying to upgrade the position.

Add that to the defense Jimmy brought in aging while Wanny piled up bad draft after bad draft and you've got a hole were still digging out of.

It's why I don't buy any of the negativity towards Saban for him not turning this team around yet.
 
I remember we got Dixon and Nails for nothing

we could use some luck like that

we need a C and a LT and move Hadnot to G
 
Disgustipate said:
It's a problem, but it isnt losing us games, and it isnt nearly as bad as it was early in the season.

It needs to be addressed, but quarterback play is by far and away #1 problem.
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Sorry, but QB play IMO isnt the main problem.

If we had a quality O-Line the QB's we have would have more time to make the correct decision and the running game developed because of that same O-Line would also take pressure off the QB.

But NJPHIN already said that :wink:
 
If we had a quality O-Line the QB's we have would have more time to make the correct decision and the running game developed because of that same O-Line would also take pressure off the QB.
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nail on the head

we can't do play action, we can't do screens, we can't pick up blitzes, we can't do long double-move or square-in routes

but other than that, the QB's have it easy
 
Anyone that has played or knows anything about football understands the importance of a great oline. Having said that I feel that Carey (funny how most people called him a bust) and Hadnot are people I would like to see stick around and grow at their positions. I also think that Fonotui could be a major asset to this line. We have seen what he can do under Houck before and I think an offseason here will benefit him greatly. Shelton also has played well at RG and I wouldn't mind seeing him return to play there again. Continuity on the line is really important we need to let these guys gel. The only free agent I would persue would be Eric Stienbach. If we don't get him I say draft a wide body late in the draft for depth and keep these guys together. LT however is a HUGE need, I would love to see a 1st or 2nd round pick on LT. The problem is there is not much value at LT in round one for us. We could reach on Levi Brown but besides him there really isn't anyone for us to take where we will be picking. Redoing the left side of our line is a must if this team wants to step up to a playoff contender. James is a OK guard but we need better. The LT of the month subscription needs to expire.
 
tonto_phin said:
nail on the head

we can't do play action, we can't do screens, we can't pick up blitzes, we can't do long double-move or square-in routes

but other than that, the QB's have it easy
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Bingo, although Joey can't sell the play fake worth a ****.

An OL would help all of that.

Add that to the defense Jimmy brought in aging while Wanny piled up bad draft after bad draft and you've got a hole were still digging out of.

It's why I don't buy any of the negativity towards Saban for him not turning this team around yet.
Click to expand...

Also true Saban still is cleaning up their mess. The rebuilding didn't end last year.
 
I agree that the offensive line has been our biggest downfall over the last few years. People always equate good QB play with winning and assume he makes everything go. I think it is the other way around. I think the offensive line allows both the QB and RB to do their thing. Without good line play, it is very difficult to run or throw the ball. It doesn't matter if it is Peyton Manning or Joey Harrington. If they don't get time to make their reads and throw the ball, the offense will struggle. If the line doesn't give the running back at least a small hole for a decent amount of time to run through, its going to be hard to run the football effectively, unless you are Barry Sanders.

So I think when you talk about the offense and what needs to be done with it in the offseason, it all starts and ends with the line. If we can manage to upgrade the line and get it to be a good unit, the production and effectiveness of the other skill players on offense should improve. If we make the oline good and the offense still struggles, we will at least know that the skill positions need to be upgraded. And once we know that, we can at least be confident they don't have to play behind a mediocre offensive line.
 
NJPHIN34 said:
For as many years as I can remember we have continuously neglected the offensive line. This, in my opinion, is our biggest undoing. Way more significant than any QB decision, WRs we have, RB etc. When you have a dominant Oline, all those positions seem to be and play just a little better. It couldn't be more clear than the Denver Broncos and their plug and play a 1000 yard RB system. ....
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But has Denver really "invested" in the offense line? Looking at their starting five:

LT: Erik Pears 2005 UDFA - 1 year with Denver
LG: Ben Hamilton 2001 4th Rounder (113th overall) - 6 years with Denver
C: Tom Nalen 1994 7th Rounder (218th overvall) - 13 years with Denver
RG: Cooper Carlisle 2000 4th Rounder (113th overall) - 7 years with Denver
RT: Adam Meadows - Free Agent 2006 signing (8th year in the league)

Only one was a free agent signing. Of the other four, there were two 4th rounders (113th overall), a 7th rounder, and an UDFA.

I think we've invested more heavily in the offense line than they have. The difference is that some of the projects that they've drafted have panned out. Since Houck's only been here two years, I think you really have to put the blame on Wannsedt/Wise.
 
Congratulations

NJPHIN34 said:
For as many years as I can remember we have continuously neglected the offensive line. This, in my opinion, is our biggest undoing. Way more significant than any QB decision, WRs we have, RB etc. When you have a dominant Oline, all those positions seem to be and play just a little better. It couldn't be more clear than the Denver Broncos and their plug and play a 1000 yard RB system. But if you look at the consistently better teams in the league, they have really good offensive lines. I'd also like to point out the Eagles. Mcnabb goes down for the season and Garcia comes in and now has played 3 pretty good games. Is Garcia any better than the QBs on our roster? I tend to say no. Their backup QB is able to take over where the starter left off, because he has little pressure and a good running game to take pressure off. All due to a very solid offensive line.

We constantly look to fill 5/11ths of our offense with "cheap" alternatives instead of making a significant investment. While I'm not suggesting we wildly spend our money on the big names, we need a "star" on the oline. Why do we only settle for having a "star" at RB, WR and QB? We simply can't continue to be satisfied with mediocrity. We're not the Patriots, we can't pull guys out of truck stops and plug them in at guard.

Our biggest need this offseason is our offensive line. We need to work towards building a dominant offensive line, not merely a mediocre to good one. And until we do, we will continue to suffer through seasons of missing the playoffs, or early exits (oh how I would love one of them these days). Why do you think the Jets are having success this season? Because they didn't listen to their fans and wisely invested 2 first round picks in their offensive line's skill positions; LT and Center. The guys we have playing those positions are a 3rd and 6th rounder. They are serviceable players who would be better suited at "less skilled" positions persay.

We desperately need upgrades along the line, maybe the exception RT. Please please please either draft a excellent prospect or finally pay up for a proven commodity.
Click to expand...
This is the smartest and absolute best post I have read on FinHeaven since I joined. I couldn't agree with you more.

Look at the first thing Mangini did when he took over the Jets, drafted OL with his first two picks, and look where the Jets are, fighting for a playoff spot!
 
NJPHIN34 said:
For as many years as I can remember we have continuously neglected the offensive line. This, in my opinion, is our biggest undoing. Way more significant than any QB decision, WRs we have, RB etc. When you have a dominant Oline, all those positions seem to be and play just a little better. It couldn't be more clear than the Denver Broncos and their plug and play a 1000 yard RB system. But if you look at the consistently better teams in the league, they have really good offensive lines. I'd also like to point out the Eagles. Mcnabb goes down for the season and Garcia comes in and now has played 3 pretty good games. Is Garcia any better than the QBs on our roster? I tend to say no. Their backup QB is able to take over where the starter left off, because he has little pressure and a good running game to take pressure off. All due to a very solid offensive line.

We constantly look to fill 5/11ths of our offense with "cheap" alternatives instead of making a significant investment. While I'm not suggesting we wildly spend our money on the big names, we need a "star" on the oline. Why do we only settle for having a "star" at RB, WR and QB? We simply can't continue to be satisfied with mediocrity. We're not the Patriots, we can't pull guys out of truck stops and plug them in at guard.

Our biggest need this offseason is our offensive line. We need to work towards building a dominant offensive line, not merely a mediocre to good one. And until we do, we will continue to suffer through seasons of missing the playoffs, or early exits (oh how I would love one of them these days). Why do you think the Jets are having success this season? Because they didn't listen to their fans and wisely invested 2 first round picks in their offensive line's skill positions; LT and Center. The guys we have playing those positions are a 3rd and 6th rounder. They are serviceable players who would be better suited at "less skilled" positions persay.

We desperately need upgrades along the line, maybe the exception RT. Please please please either draft a excellent prospect or finally pay up for a proven commodity.
Click to expand...

:yeahthat:

We all know that our OL is key to building any kind of offensive stability for the future. We need to spend some of that FA money this off-season, bring in a standout C / OG or LT, and start filling those holes. I wouldn't rule out drafting a couple of guys early this year either. It's time to make our OL a strength instead of a weakness....

PHINZ RULE!!!!

PHINZ RULE!!!!
 
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