lack of third down conversions.... | FinHeaven - Miami Dolphins Forums

lack of third down conversions....

BGtoKNfor6

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So we eeked out a win in denver in a game that honestly showcased what great defensive schemes with a secondary that are backups on most teams (excluding allen). That however isn't the main course of this post....Kudos to the coaching staff and guys like goodman who stepped up yesterday. We do need to work on hands drills for the d-backs. Was nice to see stone-hands get a pick 6 but man, as in games past, bell or another db could have really turned up the pressure but they dropped a sure pick. Good teams make their own luck, we seem to let it go through our hands at times...

That being said, it is going to be a huge heartbreak down the stretch if we lose to teams because we cannot convert third downs. It is very frustrating seeing us in anything more than 3&5 because there is a good chance that we are not going to convert it. I think we are ZERO for twenty something on third downs longer than 7 yards. That is PATHETIC.

Simply put we have 2 very capable running backs, one of which can catch swing passes and in the flats (brown) no problem and make the first guy miss. Ricky can to to an extent but I just don't see the same ricky williams making guys miss or running them over from years past. A good complement back, capable of a few good games but has lost a step IMO. Just goes down on first contact now.

To make matters worse, denver seemed to play a cover 2 or 3 yesterday but brought one of the safeties into the box all day long to essentially have 8 guys in the box. This killed our running game. However what suprised me the most is that we didn't go play action that often or at least test ginn on bly to stretch the field. One the interception by pennington, that was the only time I saw us try to go deep. Chad threw a good ball but ginn, still very raw in terms of adjusting to balls and his route running skills, just continued to run his route and for whatever reason didn't read the ball. The ball was thrown slightly inside and any good receiver catches the ball by cutting in front of the defender and taking it.

Props to camarillo for stepping up yesterday. Porter and the rest of our defense won this game for us. We do need to work on getting some pass rush though and I feel that another thing that helped us was cutler's emotions got to the best of him allowing culver to get a pick. The guy has a cannon for an arm but needs to relax and calm down. Definitely worked to our advantage.

Outside of that, our o-line played decent considering we still have some transitioning going on at times. I didn't see our line playing with any kind of nasty streak though and looking at the point of attack I didn't feel that we were getting the push I thought we would against a very suspect defense.

Again, if we are going to want to keep this going, we are going to have to get ginn more into the offense or at least have someone other than camarillo getting 5-7 yard curl and our routes. I am just confused why we didn't go deep more than once. Also it was nice seeing seam routes by fasano. There were one or two that were overthrown or thrown into traffic but fasano I think, has proven he can catch the ball. We just need someone else to step up, albeit fasano or more importantly GINN on the other side to complement camarillo. If we get fasano tearing it up down the seam or on crossing patterns and ginn can actually get separation, baring chad can get him the ball, it is going to blow our offense wide open.

Good win. Definitely need tums again this week. We are FINALLY learning how to win guys. It is a learning process and for the past few seasons, we would have given this game away. We almost did but we held on and scored to put them away when it really mattered.
 
I know that this wasn't the most pretty win, but I really think this was a very important win. Pennington did not have a good game at all, he floated passess all day long! Somehow though this team figured out how to win, that is something that is important from the good teams. This is becoming a good team, and we actually do have a shot at winning the division. A couple wins against division teams, and win the games in the west that we should win and this team wins the division.
 
I know that this wasn't the most pretty win, but I really think this was a very important win. Pennington did not have a good game at all, he floated passess all day long! Somehow though this team figured out how to win, that is something that is important from the good teams. This is becoming a good team, and we actually do have a shot at winning the division. A couple wins against division teams, and win the games in the west that we should win and this team wins the division.
Goosebumps.....I'm dreaming as well, how long has it been.........
 
I know that this wasn't the most pretty win, but I really think this was a very important win. Pennington did not have a good game at all, he floated passess all day long! Somehow though this team figured out how to win, that is something that is important from the good teams. This is becoming a good team, and we actually do have a shot at winning the division. A couple wins against division teams, and win the games in the west that we should win and this team wins the division.

While that would be great, teams now are going to continue to stack the box and dare us to throw. Nobody, even the bad teams, are scared because we haven't proven a single wideout can get deep on anyone. There is no way in hell we are going to be able to get past the first round of the playoffs if we cannot convert third downs or at least get some 20-30 yard pass plays. Denver did just that to us yesterday with the 29th or 30th IIRC defense in the league and we couldn't even get guys separation enough to open up the running game. Had it not been for the great run by brown early in the game, our rushing totals would have been worse.

We have to learn to take it to the next level. Tony is preaching that and we are LEAPS and BOUNDS better than last year, even with guys who are not starters on other teams. It is all part of learning how to win and play with confidence. I saw some of that on defense yesterday in the secondary. It needs to transition to our offense, especially the line. I want to see some push and more importantly our wideouts getting open (other than greg). If we don't do this and we actually get to the playoffs, we will get demolished.
 
So we eeked out a win in denver in a game that honestly showcased what great defensive schemes with a secondary that are backups on most teams (excluding allen). That however isn't the main course of this post....Kudos to the coaching staff and guys like goodman who stepped up yesterday. We do need to work on hands drills for the d-backs. Was nice to see stone-hands get a pick 6 but man, as in games past, bell or another db could have really turned up the pressure but they dropped a sure pick. Good teams make their own luck, we seem to let it go through our hands at times...

That being said, it is going to be a huge heartbreak down the stretch if we lose to teams because we cannot convert third downs. It is very frustrating seeing us in anything more than 3&5 because there is a good chance that we are not going to convert it. I think we are ZERO for twenty something on third downs longer than 7 yards. That is PATHETIC.

The best way to convert 3rd and longs is not to have them... All of those reasons you said should be good ones to get the yards and keep us out of that position as much as possible...

I feel your frustration but 3rd and longs make EVERY team one dimensional and easy to attack... We have to avoid them, period.
 
Slow down guys, lets think .500 before we think div champs. We haven't won a single "easy" game this year. Lets win the next two before we starting talking playoffs. If we lose either of the next two we are not in good shape. We have to prove we can win the easy ones before we go any where. We also have to refind our running game and complete a 3rd conversion over 7 freaking yards. Our D is playing above our heads but this team has a lot to work on before talking div champs. Enjoy the ride guys, we are heading in the right direction, just understand we may not be quite there just yet. The next two weeks will tell us alot.
 
The best way to convert 3rd and longs is not to have them... All of those reasons you said should be good ones to get the yards and keep us out of that position as much as possible...

I feel your frustration but 3rd and longs make EVERY team one dimensional and easy to attack... We have to avoid them, period.

While I agree, 3rd and 7 is very manageable. We haven't coverted ONE all season. That is a telling stat in itself. The top teams convert those all day long. I don't buy into the excuses. Our passing attack is one dimensional with camarillo right now. Who is that going to scare? The wildcat is all but a dream anymore and our o-line can't get push against a very bad defense. It is one game I know but the third down conversion stat tells us all we need to know.

A few times yesterday in manageable third down conversions (one 3&2 comes to mind) we couldn't even get that and we had to settle for a field goal. Field goals don't win games and sooner or later we are going to find that out the hard way. We should have been up 20 something to 3 or 10 yesterday easily and let it slip away. Ginn dropping an out pass on third down near the sidelines comes to mind.

We just have to execute better. We are going to see 8 in the box all season long with rolled coverages. We had better start gameplanning for play actions and other deep attempts to try to loosen it up so our ground game will be effective. That is what 4 weeks now of lackluster performances on the ground. Come on...we have the guys to do it.
 
Slow down guys, lets think .500 before we think div champs. We haven't won a single "easy" game this year. Lets win the next two before we starting talking playoffs. If we lose either of the next two we are not in good shape. We have to prove we can win the easy ones before we go any where. We also have to refind our running game and complete a 3rd conversion over 7 freaking yards. Our D is playing above our heads but this team has a lot to work on before talking div champs. Enjoy the ride guys, we are heading in the right direction, just understand we may not be quite there just yet. The next two weeks will tell us alot.

I agree whole-heartedly. I mean anyone who has been a dolphins fan for a long time knows not to think that way because your going to have a hard time sleeping IF the team falls apart. That has been the modus operandi for the past 8 years.

I am more worried about watching us grow as a team. I saw some of that yesterday. What a world of difference having chad as a quarterback has made on this franchise. We are SLOWLY turning this bad boy around but I expect more bumps and bruises (ala texans game) along the way.

Needless to say, we need to start getting some production from our wideouts in a more balanced way. If we have to start running screens and draws as well as swing passes to get us some yards; we have a back in brown that is more than capable of doing that.

I love what we have accomplished at this point because nobody ever thought we would be 4-4, however I am not buying into a divisional title..lol. at all. Tons of football to be played guys.
 
While I agree, 3rd and 7 is very manageable. We haven't coverted ONE all season. That is a telling stat in itself. The top teams convert those all day long. I don't buy into the excuses. Our passing attack is one dimensional with camarillo right now. Who is that going to scare? The wildcat is all but a dream anymore and our o-line can't get push against a very bad defense. It is one game I know but the third down conversion stat tells us all we need to know.

A few times yesterday in manageable third down conversions (one 3&2 comes to mind) we couldn't even get that and we had to settle for a field goal. Field goals don't win games and sooner or later we are going to find that out the hard way. We should have been up 20 something to 3 or 10 yesterday easily and let it slip away. Ginn dropping an out pass on third down near the sidelines comes to mind.

We just have to execute better. We are going to see 8 in the box all season long with rolled coverages. We had better start gameplanning for play actions and other deep attempts to try to loosen it up so our ground game will be effective. That is what 4 weeks now of lackluster performances on the ground. Come on...we have the guys to do it.

Truthfully Chad did not have a great game but he did enough to win which is precisely what this team is becoming... 'Do enough to win'. He was overthrowing all day, even when he did try to stretch the field... Then he throws the perfect pass to Ricky down to the 5! This is what good QB's do... they play well when they have to...

I know what you are saying, we should be more consistent and we should execute better... Both good points... I just wonder if we have the horses or the depth to be a 'knock out' punch type team.
 
Truthfully Chad did not have a great game but he did enough to win which is precisely what this team is becoming... 'Do enough to win'. He was overthrowing all day, even when he did try to stretch the field... Then he throws the perfect pass to Ricky down to the 5! This is what good QB's do... they play well when they have to...

I know what you are saying, we should be more consistent and we should execute better... Both good points... I just wonder if we have the horses or the depth to be a 'knock out' punch type team.

I think we really should have went after a guy like keyshaun johnson. Let me explain. I know he has ties to parcells and yes he is an ***, but he can become a mentor to guys like ginn who need to learn to run routes and gain separation. Chad also knows the guy as well and we can see here that chad throws to guys he is comfortable with. Him and camarillo are really settling in. That will only get us for so long...

I never really knew if ginn was polished enough but now I know that he isn't. I do believe he will be good in a few years but honestly who do we have as an accomplished wideout to take him aside and show him to do these things? He needs to seek advise of retired guys like jerry rice and chris carter.

This is why I don't believe we will win the division. We will be 8-8 or so and probably won't get to the playoffs. We just don't have enough to get it done IMO, let alone ride out an injury bug if indeed we have one to ginn or camarillo.
 
I think we really should have went after a guy like keyshaun johnson. Let me explain. I know he has ties to parcells and yes he is an ***, but he can become a mentor to guys like ginn who need to learn to run routes and gain separation. Chad also knows the guy as well and we can see here that chad throws to guys he is comfortable with. Him and camarillo are really settling in. That will only get us for so long...

I never really knew if ginn was polished enough but now I know that he isn't. I do believe he will be good in a few years but honestly who do we have as an accomplished wideout to take him aside and show him to do these things? He needs to seek advise of retired guys like jerry rice and chris carter.

This is why I don't believe we will win the division. We will be 8-8 or so and probably won't get to the playoffs. We just don't have enough to get it done IMO, let alone ride out an injury bug if indeed we have one to ginn or camarillo.

A mentor for Ginn would have been a godsend... I agree completely with your thinking (though maybe not Keyshawn)... It is obvious Ginn has the tools but he is very inconsistent and just needs to learn...

A true number one would take the pressure off of him and let him evolve a little more naturally... I would take this argument further and say that we are better off finding a number one in trade/free agency than drafting another young gun who needs to learn the ropes... JMO.

I think Ginn can be a gem if we get him out of the spotlight and someone with character to learn under.
 
I agree whole-heartedly. I mean anyone who has been a dolphins fan for a long time knows not to think that way because your going to have a hard time sleeping IF the team falls apart. That has been the modus operandi for the past 8 years.

I am more worried about watching us grow as a team. I saw some of that yesterday. What a world of difference having chad as a quarterback has made on this franchise. We are SLOWLY turning this bad boy around but I expect more bumps and bruises (ala texans game) along the way.

Needless to say, we need to start getting some production from our wideouts in a more balanced way. If we have to start running screens and draws as well as swing passes to get us some yards; we have a back in brown that is more than capable of doing that.

I love what we have accomplished at this point because nobody ever thought we would be 4-4, however I am not buying into a divisional title..lol. at all. Tons of football to be played guys.

Very true, this team could just as easily lose the next 4 games as opposed to winning the next 4 games. I was just pointing out that we actually have a chance this year. Its been years since we have had a shot at winning, and I do believe that we have a shot at it. I'm not expecting us to win, I wouldn't bet on us winning the division, but I do love that we have a shot.

I am optimistic about this team, we could very easily be 6-2 right now winning both the jets and the texans game. This team has a ton of potential and I do believe if they harness that potential they have the possibility of winning the division.

Sorry if that doesn't agree with the outlook of a few of you. This is a new year, a new dolphins coaching staff, a new dolphins attitude, and a new dolphins team. Because they folded in the past and have had their struggles doesn't mean its going to always happen.
 
I would just like to know why we kept forcing the pass yesterday against one of the worst run D's in the league.

They were stacking the box with 8 guys leaving single coverage on the corners with one safety over the top. Now they could have shown run and then rolled the safety back into coverage but more often then not they were guarding against the run considering how awful they have been at stopping it.

When you put 8 in the box, teams shouldn't be able to run that well against you. It was basically showing us that they didn't give a rats *** about our passing game and didn't respect it at all. Why should they? We didn't do jack against them in the passing game or the run game. What we did do was take the underneath stuff and ever now and then hooked up with fasano on a seam route.

I think we should start going mid to deep with ginn and just let the cards fall where they are going to. I am not talking about throwing the game away but 3-4 deep tries a game. Ginn just has to learn to adjust to the throws. Once he does that, he should be alright.
 
That being said, it is going to be a huge heartbreak down the stretch if we lose to teams because we cannot convert third downs. It is very frustrating seeing us in anything more than 3&5 because there is a good chance that we are not going to convert it. I think we are ZERO for twenty something on third downs longer than 7 yards. That is PATHETIC.

we are at least ONE for whatever on 3rd and longer than 7....Ricky's catch on the sideline in the 4th quarter converted a 3 and 13.

we are undoubtedly sub-par on 3rd down conversions....but I imagin that we are amongst the league leaders in picking up first downs on 1st or 2nd down.

We had a 15 play drive and a 16 play drive yesterday on which we only faced 3rd down twice on each. That's pretty impressive.
 
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