Linehan makes me sick

[flintsilver7]

Well, I think they should start Feeley for this next game and then that arguement about second team yadda yadda yadda will end. But anyone with any brains can figure out that most first team defenses like Pitt and Jax are very tough. You get into the second string and its a huge jump off in talent and knowledge of execution. It does not take an engineer to figure that out. If the make Feeley the starter, then he screws up with costly Int's, then they will regret there original decision. And we all know that Saban wants to do it right the first time.

Chicago's first-team defense is better than Jacksonville's. Pittsburgh's is outstanding, no question, but their second teamers are also good - see last year's game against Buffalo. I still say that playing against second teamers isn't much of advantage if your surrounding cast is also second team. You're held back as much as they are.

 

[DrAstroZoom]

If Linehan makes you sick, take a dramamine. I can understand a touch of motion sickness, as this is the first time the Dolphins offense has moved quickly in two years.

 

[finfan54]

Maybe on third down, but it's by no means acceptable. If you have to throw an interception, you want it to be as far downfield as possible. There's certainly something to be said in that short accuracy is preferable to inaccuracy on already low-percentage passes.

What I have noticed is that recievers are not reading the defense like Gus is and they are not turning around to see the ball coming. On the long one to Gilmore, he wasnt fast enough to get downfield, which is why you will see more of Welker.

 

[flintsilver7]

Gus has had to stick in the pocket longer to throw much longer passes way more than Feeley has been throwing. Which means at least he has gotten away from the blitz well and gotten rid of the ball. You still cannot honestly say that about Feeley when his abilities have been covered up with short stuff and two step drop stuff.

You don't need to stick in the pocket very long to throw a deep ball. Sage wasn't in the pocket long when he hit Chambers for a 70 or 80 yard touchdown against one of the best defenses in the league last year. Throwing the deep ball doesn't mean that much.

There are two approaches to this - using the deep game to open up the short game, and vice versa. It worked with Culpepper and Moss because they are extremely talented. The reverse works with Tom Brady, again because he's good. Frerotte's "deep game" as it stands now won't open up anything because it's not successful.

 

[finfan54]

Chicago's first-team defense is better than Jacksonville's. Pittsburgh's is outstanding, no question, but their second teamers are also good - see last year's game against Buffalo. I still say that playing against second teamers isn't much of advantage if your surrounding cast is also second team. You're held back as much as they are.

so basically I am full of it huh? Ok you run with that. I say start Feeley in this next one against Atlanta who has a tough D as well.

 

[finfan54]

You don't need to stick in the pocket very long to throw a deep ball. Sage wasn't in the pocket long when he hit Chambers for a 70 or 80 yard touchdown against one of the best defenses in the league last year. Throwing the deep ball doesn't mean that much.

There are two approaches to this - using the deep game to open up the short game, and vice versa. It worked with Culpepper and Moss because they are extremely talented. The reverse works with Tom Brady, again because he's good. Frerotte's "deep game" as it stands now won't open up anything because it's not successful.

Its not all Gus' fault ya know, the recievers are not on the same page. They both have to get on the same page and if you start Feeley, they have to start all over again and the whole gameplan has to change because FEeley is a better short stuff guy, which DL read and end up blocking his passes at the line of scrimmage.

 

[Enforcerfin33]

I've personally been happy with the progress I've seen on Offense,minor mistakes,but all in all I'm pretty hopeful.

 

[flintsilver7]

so basically I am full of it huh? Ok you run with that. I say start Feeley in this next one against Atlanta who has a tough D as well.

I'm saying there's a lot more to it than you suggested. If your offensive line, running game, and receiving corps are downgraded, then this probably offsets the corresponding drop in talent of the defense. As I said, it matters if Feeley is playing with the first team offensive line, running game, and receiving corps against a bunch of undrafted free agents and sixth-round draft picks. This hasn't been the case.

I'm also saying that Pittsburgh's second-team defense has beaten an almost-playoff team in Buffalo, and that has to count for something. So it's unfair to trivialize Pittsburgh's "second team."

Yes, Atlanta has a tough defense. Let's see what happens.

 

[inFINSible]

You don't need to stick in the pocket very long to throw a deep ball. Sage wasn't in the pocket long when he hit Chambers for a 70 or 80 yard touchdown against one of the best defenses in the league last year. Throwing the deep ball doesn't mean that much.

There are two approaches to this - using the deep game to open up the short game, and vice versa. It worked with Culpepper and Moss because they are extremely talented. The reverse works with Tom Brady, again because he's good. Frerotte's "deep game" as it stands now won't open up anything because it's not successful.

frerotte's deep ball will open up other parts of the offense nearly as well as Feidler's used to...unless of course it's all part of some master plan from the Nicktator....Maybe gus is supposed to overthrow everything in order to trick our first few real opponents into gameplanning to stop our running game.

 

[finfan54]

I think you guys are jumping to too many conclusions about Gus. It is too early to tell what he will be able to do. It looks to me like a lot of his errant throws are from him anticipating pressure and making hasty decisions, sometimes bad ones. Once he sees that the line will protect him and give him adequate time, I think he will settle in and start throwing more accurately. He clearly has the arm, but i would be suspicious of the line too right now. Let them keep performing like they did against TB and I'll bet he starts playing more relaxed and throwing better passes.

Its not all Gus' fault, and I would say the same thing on the obvious things if some bad stuff happened to Feeley. Its not like I want my QB to fail so I can have my guy start, which is what alot of people on this board wish.

 

[rafael]

I didn't read this whole thread, but having read far too many AJ v. Gus threads I'm sure I know what it says. IMO opinion what Linehan was saying is that the most important thing in analyzing any QB with enough physical ability to play in this league is reviewing his decisions. If you understand QB play you should be able to see that it's not even close. The problem is that AJ's mental development is no where near Gus'. Too many people just analyze QB play on whether the guy can throw. Well AJ can throw the ball, but there's more to it than that. AJ has success when his primary read or at most when the check down is open. If the obvious first read isn't there he's lost. In the redzone, when the D tightens up that means he's in trouble. That's part of the reason that AJ doesn't lead the team to many scores. Gus is no savior either, but his decisions are much better. This means that over the course of the season Gus will have a much better ratio of good v. bad plays. Gus has struggled with timing up with receivers, but that should be expected since he's never played with them before. You look at what's correctable and what's not. Timing up with receivers is one of the easier things to correct. Teaching a QB to have feel when your primary read is covered is almost impossible during the course of one, two or three seasons.

 

[BlueFin]

I didn't read this whole thread, but having read far too many AJ v. Gus threads I'm sure I know what it says. IMO opinion what Linehan was saying is that the most important thing in analyzing any QB with enough physical ability to play in this league is reviewing his decisions. If you understand QB play you should be able to see that it's not even close. The problem is that AJ's mental development is no where near Gus'. Too many people just analyze QB play on whether the guy can throw. Well AJ can throw the ball, but there's more to it than that. AJ has success when his primary read or at most when the check down is open. If the obvious first read isn't there he's lost. In the redzone, when the D tightens up that means he's in trouble. That's part of the reason that AJ doesn't lead the team to many scores. Gus is no savior either, but his decisions are much better. This means that over the course of the season Gus will have a much better ratio of good v. bad plays. Gus has struggled with timing up with receivers, but that should be expected since he's never played with them before. You look at what's correctable and what's not. Timing up with receivers is one of the easier things to correct. Teaching a QB to have feel when your primary read is covered is almost impossible during the course of one, two or three seasons.

Good post Rafael, and I agree with your points.

 

[KB21]

Aj only started one game, and he didn't suck, his receivers let him down...Gus sucks just as much..either one hasn't been impressive...I expected AJ to have growing pains, but not Gus.

Feeley did stink in his first start. He was inconsistent in his drops. He didn't pick up the blitz reads. He held onto the football too long. He stepped toward the blitzer as opposed to away from the blitzer.

After that first start, everyone of you that are saying start AJ now were saying start Gus then, because AJ stunk against first team defenses while Gus shined against 2nd and 3rd team guys. Now, Gus is stinking against first team defenses while AJ is shining against 2nd and 3rd string guys.

Pretty soon, you will come to the realization that at this point, it probably doesn't matter which one starts. Neither quarterback is a legitimate starting caliber quarterback at this point. AJ will struggle with his reads. Gus struggles with his consistency.

However, at this point, Gus gives the team the better chance at having the high end games and explosive plays in the passing game. AJ is simply too hesitant about going down the field with the football.

 

[flintsilver7]

I didn't read this whole thread, but having read far too many AJ v. Gus threads I'm sure I know what it says. IMO opinion what Linehan was saying is that the most important thing in analyzing any QB with enough physical ability to play in this league is reviewing his decisions. If you understand QB play you should be able to see that it's not even close. The problem is that AJ's mental development is no where near Gus'. Too many people just analyze QB play on whether the guy can throw. Well AJ can throw the ball, but there's more to it than that. AJ has success when his primary read or at most when the check down is open. If the obvious first read isn't there he's lost. In the redzone, when the D tightens up that means he's in trouble. That's part of the reason that AJ doesn't lead the team to many scores. Gus is no savior either, but his decisions are much better. This means that over the course of the season Gus will have a much better ratio of good v. bad plays. Gus has struggled with timing up with receivers, but that should be expected since he's never played with them before. You look at what's correctable and what's not. Timing up with receivers is one of the easier things to correct. Teaching a QB to have feel when your primary read is covered is almost impossible during the course of one, two or three seasons.

This ignores one absolutely critical point.

Gus has not been able to complete passes. I don't care if his "reads" are good. How you determine that is beyond me, but regardless, Gus simply hasn't completed his passes. He can be making good "reads" all season without completing a pass. By this logic, we should wheel out a Nobel Laureate, because making good decisions is apparently more important than being accurate. Gus might throw down the field, but he's been successful what - once or twice out of 10 or 15 times?

A.J. has been steadily improving since last year in making reads and completing passes. That's not an opinion. His numbers back this up. There is no way I would take a guy that completes 40% of his passes over a guy who completes 60%.

This is simply the next step for the Gus supporters. Everything else seems to have been abandoned. Knowing the system? Feeley has put up better numbers, so that's out the window. Some still cling to the second-string matchup theory. Now it's on to some vacuous "decision-making" intangible.

What will you try next? Maybe Gus needs some counseling?

Just like Linehan, a lot of Frerotte supporters had a presupposed conclusion and are mindlessly twisting the data to support that any way possible. Of course, the data itself tells a different story, but that's not why we're having this discussion, are we?

 

[flintsilver7]

Feeley did stink in his first start. He was inconsistent in his drops. He didn't pick up the blitz reads. He held onto the football too long. He stepped toward the blitzer as opposed to away from the blitzer.

After that first start, everyone of you that are saying start AJ now were saying start Gus then, because AJ stunk against first team defenses while Gus shined against 2nd and 3rd team guys. Now, Gus is stinking against first team defenses while AJ is shining against 2nd and 3rd string guys.

Pretty soon, you will come to the realization that at this point, it probably doesn't matter which one starts. Neither quarterback is a legitimate starting caliber quarterback at this point. AJ will struggle with his reads. Gus struggles with his consistency.

However, at this point, Gus gives the team the better chance at having the high end games and explosive plays in the passing game. AJ is simply too hesitant about going down the field with the football.

First, A.J. had nowhere to go against Chicago's blitz. It was probably the most aggressive preseason blitz he should have been expected to face, and he avoided one blitzer from behind before stepping up into another. He had no option.

Second, why does Gus give the team a better chance at having the high end games? Is it his 5.19 YPA? His abysmal 59.7 rating? How about his career 54.6 completion percentage? No data supports that. Take away Randy Moss, and Gus does nothing in Minnesota. This whole "deep ball" concept is getting more and more tiring because GUS HASN'T BEEN SUCCESSFUL AT IT.