Looking at the voicemails... | FinHeaven - Miami Dolphins Forums

Looking at the voicemails...

BahamaFinFan78

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It seems as though this is THE issue, the content in the voicemails. It appears to me that what happened in the locker room is normal stuff that happened to other players, with Martin even participating in it. If that is the case, and I stand to be correct if anyone has some different info, then the voicemails are the concerning part.

1. Did anyone have knowledge of the voicemails before they were brought out this week? Did Martin show them to anyone or did the coaching staff know that Richie had sent them? If so, and nothing was done, heads need to roll. If not, then it's kinda hard to blame them for these messages.
2. What can happen legally to Incognito for these texts? I don't live in the US, so what is the legal punishment for texting racial slurs and threats? That should be happening to Incognito now.
3. Is there a difference, legally, for a co-worker to text you (not during work) these things compared to a random stranger doing it? Is the organization responsible for what workers do to each other outside of the workplace?
4. In the United States, I understand that threats of violence are taken seriously, but what about slurs and derogatory remarks? While it is completely distasteful and disgusting, is there anything wrong legally with it, considering the freedom of speech?

Dont' crucify me; just asking some questions.
 
I live in the US and I will give my opinion, and that is all it is, MY OPINION. First off, I think that ALL of this is Total BS!! A grown man should be able to stand up for himself and do one of 2 things, 1. take it and let it roll off his back, or 2. dish it back to the persons involved. If he cant do one of these...Then, and ONLY THEN...he should complain up his chain of command....up HIS CHAIN OF COMMAND. You dont go airing out your dirty laundry for everyone to see!!! And you dont go home crying to Mama about the school bullie. Grow up, be a man, handle your own problems in a mature, adult, grown man way. However, if he has legit head/emotional problems, then he needs to seek help, but not blame everyone else for his issues.

To answer your other questions

1. I agree, hard to blame managment if they didnt know, and contrary to popular belief its impossible for them to know everything that happens inside or outside the locker room.
2. The only thing that I am aware of that can happen legally to him is possibly a "misdemeanor" type charge, something like "Simple Assault by Threat." Each states laws are worded differenty in some instances, but they mostly follow the same guidelines for the most part. But even this is a tricky type thing, especially without knowing the intent of his actions. I havent heard it, so its hard for me to say. But at the very worst IMO, it still would be only a misdemeanor at this point.
3. Good question....I dont know, but I wouldnt think so.
4. To my knowledge, no, there is not anything legally wrong with distastful remarks.
 
Would one have a legal ground to stand on to sue someone for slurs and/or threats?
 
That message was a joke; it only seems threatening if you look at the words without the context. This is nothing that Martin hasn't heard before in the locker room.
 
Here's another consideration: If these messages took place outside of the workplace, do the Fins, legally have a right to "fire" Incognito. If they release him, can he sue the organization for wrongful firing? No one should be discriminated against because of their personal beliefs, even if those beliefs are racist.
 
No. You look at them and let this fester inside you.

On the other hand, I will just accept the fact we have a problem and hope that we can play through it.

Bunch of ****ing losers on this forum.
 
Schefter was saying on Mike and Mike this morning there was laughter in the VM's from Incognito. Seems like it may have been Richie being Richie just busting the balls of Martin as he would any of the other boys. Not saying what he said was right, but not sure the malice is really there that is being reported.
 
Yes…Malice, his intent, that is the key issue here IMO. It is the key element here people. If he was just simply ****ing with him, being an ** clown, like ppl have said he does with others. Then this is NOTHING! Ppl do this all the time, its happened to me plenty, with far worse language!! And like I said earlier in my initial reply to the OP, I either took it and let it NOT bother me, or...I dished it right back to the ones saying it. IMO, Its just old fashioned boys being boys. It may be distasteful and not normal to some people, but it shouldn’t be something punishable by suspension either. This is so blown way out of portion. We have such a soft society now, ridiculous!!
 
Would one have a legal ground to stand on to sue someone for slurs and/or threats?

As it is right now in the US, yes, he could sue for this in court. A person can sue for just about anything now days!! Doesnt make it right though!!
 
It seems that a lot of posters here are oblivious to some of our labor laws.

From my management training (in California we have even stricter laws that allow the managers and employer to be sued over one of their own employees' actions... More on that below) the Whistleblower act (google whistleblower protection) allows all employees the ability to report violations of various issues including workplace safety without fear of retribution from their employer or coworkers (discrimination at the workplace, termination, demotion, loss of pay, etc).

When we ask why Martin didn't go management, we can all safely assume his mother, an employment and labor law attorney guided him down this path. Why? Maybe they thought management was in collusion with Richie or even simpler, by taking directly to authorities, they are granted protection via the whistleblower act.

The dolphins suspended incognito for what they calle "conduct detrimental to the organization". This is a clear act of separation. We'll see how the management and workplace practices come into play later I assume.... And it will go to court.

Workplace intimidation, harassment and or discrimination is most definitely punishable. Martin texting his teammates that it wasn't one person but the workplace (team) atmosphere is as clear as day forecasting future events in my opinion... He's going to sue the organization for creating / allowing a hostile, dangerous workplace.

And can Richie be sued? Most definitely as a co-conspirator for the workplace harassment. On another note, if he texted Martin the abusive message with a personal phone after hours, "I will kill you", Martin can probably also file an individual civil suit against Incognito as well.

Now, onto management and accountability. If it is deemed that Richie was acting on behalf of the organization (coaches telling him to do something) and he goes overboard, the Dolphins are also responsible. With Richie listed as a captain and team-leader, he'll also most likely be viewed as management in a court of law.
 
"I will kill you" - incognito

I don't know how anyone can explain this away in a court of law.... No matter what tone he was using.
 
It seems that a lot of posters here are oblivious to some of our labor laws.

From my management training (in California we have even stricter laws that allow the managers and employer to be sued over one of their own employees' actions... More on that below) the Whistleblower act (google whistleblower protection) allows all employees the ability to report violations of various issues including workplace safety without fear of retribution from their employer or coworkers (discrimination at the workplace, termination, demotion, loss of pay, etc).

When we ask why Martin didn't go management, we can all safely assume his mother, an employment and labor law attorney guided him down this path. Why? Maybe they thought management was in collusion with Richie or even simpler, by taking directly to authorities, they are granted protection via the whistleblower act.

The dolphins suspended incognito for what they calle "conduct detrimental to the organization". This is a clear act of separation. We'll see how the management and workplace practices come into play later I assume.... And it will go to court.

Workplace intimidation, harassment and or discrimination is most definitely punishable. Martin texting his teammates that it wasn't one person but the workplace (team) atmosphere is as clear as day forecasting future events in my opinion... He's going to sue the organization for creating / allowing a hostile, dangerous workplace.

And can Richie be sued? Most definitely as a co-conspirator for the workplace harassment. On another note, if he texted Martin the abusive message with a personal phone after hours, "I will kill you", Martin can probably also file an individual civil suit against Incognito as well.

Now, onto management and accountability. If it is deemed that Richie was acting on behalf of the organization (coaches telling him to do something) and he goes overboard, the Dolphins are also responsible. With Richie listed as a captain and team-leader, he'll also most likely be viewed as management in a court of law.

I jumped into this thread to talk about this post...but its pretty much spot on, not much i can add. I'll point out a few things that are more in the practical sense(and for the record, i am not a lawyer):

1) From my understanding the Whistleblower act is applicable in this case. Martin should fall under that. Regardless, the owners might still avoid him. That act has always been difficult to enforce because companies/agencies can easily claim they didnt hire a former whistleblower for other reasons.
The league has already been busted for collusion. They were stone cold caught colluding against the players during the lead up to the CBA negotiations. The reason why there wasnt a massive lawsuit about it is due to the owners making any CBA agreement contingent on the players waiving away the right to sue the league for things they "might" have done before the negotiations took place. Even then it almost went to court after the NFL punished the Cowboys and Redskins for taking advantage of that uncapped offseason by cleaning up their cap space(or read another way: not colluding with the other owners).
As well, its worth pointing out that Von Miller was in the cross hairs of the league for a bit. After he put his name on the lawsuit the players filed against the league in the pre-negotiations, there was legitimate talk he might fall in the draft in retaliation by the owners. It didnt matter that he was protected under the law. It ended up not happening, though my personal opinion on that is: he was just to bloody talented. Owners had no problem looking the other way about Peyton Manning's negotiating involvenment when he became a free agent. Its fair to question if Martin will get the same pass.

2) Like ive said in other threads, Martin collecting a legitimate paycheck from the league in court is difficult to believe. Undoubtedly he is following at least some of the advice of his parents. But no matter how intelligent and educated they are, i refuse to believe they think they can decisively win this case. They have to look at the legal history of the league and know what they are up against. In my opinion, everything they've been doing up until this point is trying to make the league see the worst case scenario. I expect they will back off if they get some reasonable assurance their son can continue his career for another franchise.
People forget why the players accepted the $765 million settlement concerning concussions. The main reason why was because the league was preparing to delay the courts for years to come...at which point some of the players were going to start dying off. If the league is that resolute, then Martin's parents have to understand this would be a long, hard fight in which they likely couldnt prevail in any significant way. Another example would be the USFL v NFL case from way back when. The USFL won that thing...and received 3 dollars for their victory.

3) From my understanding, Martin can go after Incognito. In fact, a lot of people are wondering why the league is investigating instead of the authorities. Depending on what other evidence Martin has on Incognito, Martin could not only file a civil suit, he could file a criminal suit. If something happened recently and he had the reasonable doubt for his well being, Incognito could be very vulnerable.

4) And i agree with your final point: now that there is evidence of coaches instructing Incognito, this goes from negligence to being responsible. This is borderline very bad for the team. If more evidence is uncovered, the league will have to come down on us hard or else the union(and probably the authorities) will come down on them hard.
 
thanks for the examples of previous suits vs. the NFL. when i posted what the Martins could and would most likely do, i never really considered how big that obstacle really would be. from my experience, these employment / labor law attorneys bring so much ammo, a lot of cases are settled outside of court for fear of public outrage.
 
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