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Mando: Dolphins not done at QB

My friend works/writes for a global sports statistics and information company in Chicago and also happens to be a die-hard MSU fan. He is usually very unbiased and calls it as he sees it. He's watched ever game Cousins has played in and I value his opinion in most sports related topics. I asked him what he thought of Kirk Cousins, and this was his opinion:

Kirk Cousins is probably the most overrated quarterback in the draft this year, but he does have a lot of skill and ability. The problem is, the only time he can show those skills is when he has forever and a day to make a decision. When he's hurried, he's a below-average quarterback. He screwed Michigan State on numerous possessions because he can't handle pressure and makes terrible decisions. His stock is rising because he can show off his natural abilites without having to worry about defenders running at him or being in his face. He'll probably end up getting drafted in the second round or early third, but I think as a whole package he's a fifth-round draft pick. I'm glad I'm not the GM who makes the decision to draft him higher than that.
I'm not taking this as gospel, I'm just saying this is the opinion of a huge MSU fan who watches every game, and gets paid to watch sports for a living.​

 
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31 other teams will pass on cousins TWICE before you guys think we should draft him.

You don't like 2nd round QBs, now you want to try 3rd round ones.

There is a reason why no one else wants him and why they all would love to get Tannehill.

It doesn't matter anyway because ireland has His Guy and we will draft NO QB. Watch. You will understand when Philbin tries to cut grd in training camp and ireland OVERRIDES it.
 
DcRy82 said:
Agreed. I said that (the part in bold) almost verbatim yesterday when talking with friends about QBs in this draft. Steve Young was almost 30 when his career really got started. Kurt Warner was 28. Not saying he will be them, but just goes to show that great careers can still happen in their late 20s (although I understand it isn't ideal).
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steve young career started the same time most young qb's start. he played in usfl, started for the bucs and sucked then had the chance to sit for 5 years so him and Weeden have nothing in co,mmon
 
dlockz said:
steve young career started the same time most young qb's start. he played in usfl, started for the bucs and sucked then had the chance to sit for 5 years so him and Weeden have nothing in co,mmon
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He didnt get into the league until he was 24-25. My point is, he only had 8 years worth of "franchise qb" worthy play. And I'm saying if Weeden came in and could be that franchise guy for 7-8 years, I'd be very happy with it. I didn't compare them in any other way
 
Kirk Cousins is one of the most intelligent and likeable kids in all of college football, but he's also got a lot of people fooled because for such a smart kid, he's one of the worst decision makers on the football field in this draft. He cannot handle pressure, and consistently throws some of the most ill advised throws into double and triple coverage that you'll ever see.

He's not Tom Brady. I remember watching Tom Brady throw for 369 yards and 4 TD's against a very good Alabama defense in the 2000 Orange Bowl. He led Michigan from being down 2 touchdowns in that game TWICE.

Kirk Cousins went 10-18, for 120 yards, 0 TD's and 1 INT against Bama's defense in the Capital One Bowl before being knocked out of the game. When you take into account all his recoveries from his own fumbles, it's why Michigan St. had -62 yards rushing at one point.

Cousins 3 INT performance against Georgia in his final game sums up Cousins decision making when he's pressured.


I remember when Saban was at Michigan St. in 1999 and was up 27-10 on Michigan. Lloyd Carr decided to put Tom Brady in and once again, he almost led Michigan all the way back. He finished 30 of 41 for 2 TD's despite being under constant pressure from Saban's blitzes. He went 18 of 20 on the final two drives.

I watched Brady lead Michigan to two scoring drives in the final 6 minutes to lead them to another 45-31 come from behind win over Arkansas in the Citrus Bowl.


Brady set Michigan school passng records in his first season as a starter. He always displayed tremendous leadership, poise, toughness, and clutch in his gut when he was at Michigan. I still have no idea how he lasted as long as he did in the draft. Cousins will probably make a decent backup caliber quarterback in the NFL due to his intangibles, but I don't think he'll make an effective starter. I have essentially the same grade on Cousins that I had on Greg McElroy.

I can understand the comparison to Chad Henne as a prospect because Henne never really progressed as a Senior and seemed to plateau in college, much like Cousins. Their flaws in decision making become most apparent in clutch situations. Tom Brady was a better prospect than Kirk Cousins if they were in the same draft.
 
Phinatic8u said:
Slimm. Would you be opposed of drafting Tannehill at 8?
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I really, really like Tannehill as a prospect and have since I really dug into him after he took over for that bum Jerrod Johnson halfway through the 2010 season and led aTm to all those wins down the stretch, but I couldn't bring myself to take him with the 8th overall pick. It's just too much of a reach for me.

I think he has legitimate upside and probably makes a good starting caliber quarterback for somebody if they develope him properly, but I don't see him as a destiny changing pick in the mold of Matt Ryan, Andrew Luck, or Matt Barkley.

Tannehill and Weeden are the two second best QB prospects in this draft behind Luck in my opinion, but I wouldn't take either in the top 20 picks. I'd be fine reaching for either one of them in the latter portion of the 1st round, but not in the top 10. These quarterbacks are getting pushed up draft boards nowdays beyond what they're worth.

Personally, I'd feel better about getting one of the best players in the draft with the 8th overall selection, and take a developmental QB that I like later. It would be hard for me to convince myself to take a QB in the top 10 if I feel he's best served to sit for a season.

If you take Tannehill at #8, I think it's important to understand that you're probably going to be passing up better players at other positions who have pro-bowl ability immediately and can really help get your football team back on the right track. If you're comfortable with that as a football team and everybody involved is on board with it.... then go for it.

If you've already decided that you're going to reach for a quarterback, reach for Tannehill.
 
I can see where Slimm is coming from, but draft position isn't just about talent, it's about impact. What's going on now with the draft position of quarterbacks can be called "reaching", sure, but what we're seeing isn't some form of blind desperation -- it's a reaction to the increase in impact that quarterbacks are having on the game thanks to rules changes. Quarterbacks making a bigger impact = quarterbacks being more valuable = quarterbacks being drafted earlier. In fact, I'd probably say that quarterbacks are having a much bigger impact which makes them much more valuable which makes it reasonable to draft them much earlier.

If you decide that the #8 pick is too rich for Ryan Tannehill, that basically amounts -- in this day and age -- to passing on Tannehill altogether. You're not going to get him too much later if he's even there at #8.

I wasn't a fan of Mark Sanchez when he came out of USC but I did have to applaud the Jets for taking a shot on their guy and not letting their draft board dictate too heavily to them. They traded up to the #5 pick (which, if I remember correctly, was considered a reach for Sanchez at the time) and got their guy. Because it's not like you're guaranteed anything with position players at that point in the draft, either. The next three guys taken after Sanchez were Andre Smith, Darrius Heyward-Bey and Eugene Monroe (to be fair, B.J. Raji was the pick after that).

What's interesting is that Jeff Ireland holds so tightly to his preconceived (and often arbitrary) notions of value I can totally see him doing what Slimm is saying, which is passing on Tannehill as being a reach, or trading down in the hopes of picking him later in the first round and then seeing the Browns or some other team leapfrog him to take Tannehill, then throw up his arms as if he had no control over the situation and take a Kirk Cousins or Nick Foles later on and declare the quarterback position solved.

That would be very much in character for him. It's almost exactly what happened in '08 with Matt Ryan.
 
QBs are impact players. When you have a good one you dont have to reach. when you dont have a good one you better go get one regardless of value. Does everyboday believe Aaron Rodgers was a steal at pick 25. He dropped becasue they said he was a system QB. He definintely was a steal at 25 when he dropped and in hindsight he definitely was not a reach.

Unless the number 8 pick is someone like richardson or claiborne or Blackmon then I may think twice. However when we pick it may be Rieff or QB, Ingram or QB. When I compare QB may be the pick. Problem is everyone wants the value for that year but if you dont have a QB you can go on or years without a QB. Sound Familiar?
 
In addition to Garrard and Moore in a west coast offense, I'm looking forward to seeing Pat Devlin in this offense. Dude has a supremely quick release and this certainly is a better fit for him.
 
TheWalrus said:
I can see where Slimm is coming from, but draft position isn't just about talent, it's about impact. What's going on now with the draft position of quarterbacks can be called "reaching", sure, but what we're seeing isn't some form of blind desperation -- it's a reaction to the increase in impact that quarterbacks are having on the game thanks to rules changes. Quarterbacks making a bigger impact = quarterbacks being more valuable = quarterbacks being drafted earlier. In fact, I'd probably say that quarterbacks are having a much bigger impact which makes them much more valuable which makes it reasonable to draft them much earlier.

If you decide that the #8 pick is too rich for Ryan Tannehill, that basically amounts -- in this day and age -- to passing on Tannehill altogether. You're not going to get him too much later if he's even there at #8.

I wasn't a fan of Mark Sanchez when he came out of USC but I did have to applaud the Jets for taking a shot on their guy and not letting their draft board dictate too heavily to them. They traded up to the #5 pick (which, if I remember correctly, was considered a reach for Sanchez at the time) and got their guy. Because it's not like you're guaranteed anything with position players at that point in the draft, either. The next three guys taken after Sanchez were Andre Smith, Darrius Heyward-Bey and Eugene Monroe (to be fair, B.J. Raji was the pick after that).

What's interesting is that Jeff Ireland holds so tightly to his preconceived (and often arbitrary) notions of value I can totally see him doing what Slimm is saying, which is passing on Tannehill as being a reach, or trading down in the hopes of picking him later in the first round and then seeing the Browns or some other team leapfrog him to take Tannehill, then throw up his arms as if he had no control over the situation and take a Kirk Cousins or Nick Foles later on and declare the quarterback position solved.

That would be very much in character for him. It's almost exactly what happened in '08 with Matt Ryan.
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I think everyone understands why quarterbacks are being pushed up draft boards nowdays, but that still doesn't make a quarterback any good. The purpose of the draft is to acquire talent. A quarterback isn't going to have a bigger impact on the game if he isn't any good.

For example, I'll guarantee that Trent Richardson is going to have a bigger impact on the team that drafts him than most of these system quarterbacks will ever have. Not only from a tangible aspect, but also from an intangible one. He's going to immediately inject some toughness and attitude into his entire offensive unit, and they're going to feed off of him.

Nobody is a bigger proponent of the value of the quarterback position than I am... and I began preaching that several, several years ago. However, it applies only to the quarterbacks that I feel like are destiny changing type players. It doesn't apply to every Tom, Dick, and Harry from the Big-12 with inflated stats that some talking head is hyping up just because he's a quarterback.

I think there's potential for a scenario where Miami has to choose between a sure fire stud at another position, or take a gamble on a quarterback simply because he's a quarterback.


I was very strong supporter of Mark Sanchez in the draft and felt like he was as good as it gets in terms of projecting a QB to the NFL with only one season of starting experience under his belt. He was clutch and played his best in the biggest games at USC. He dominated. It's ironic because I tend to place a tremendous amount of significance on starting experience at the quarterback position. Sanchez was an exception.


He's actually performed pretty much like I thought he would thus far considering he wasn't ready to be thrown in the fire from day 1.... but he was, and he's handled it better than 99% of quarterbacks thrown into that situation in NFL history ever have. There was a tremendous learning curve for him from his rookie year to his second year.

I don't think he's done getting better. He just threw 26 TD's in his 3rd year in the league. Miami hasn't had a quarterback throw for 26 TD's since Marino in '94.

I'll always maintain that Mark Sanchez is better than a lot of people think.
 
TedSlimmJr said:
I think everyone understands why quarterbacks are being pushed up draft boards nowdays, but that still doesn't make a quarterback any good. The purpose of the draft is to acquire talent. A quarterback isn't going to have a bigger impact on the game if he isn't any good.

For example, I'll guarantee that Trent Richardson is going to have a bigger impact on the team that drafts him than most of these system quarterbacks will ever have. Not only from a tangible aspect, but also from an intangible one. He's going to immediately inject some toughness and attitude into his entire offensive unit, and they're going to feed off of him.

Nobody is a bigger proponent of the value of the quarterback position than I am... and I began preaching that several, several years ago. However, it applies only to the quarterbacks that I feel like are destiny changing type players. It doesn't apply to every Tom, Dick, and Harry from the Big-12 with inflated stats that some talking head is hyping up just because he's a quarterback.

I think there's potential for a scenario where Miami has to choose between a sure fire stud at another position, or take a gamble on a quarterback simply because he's a quarterback.


I was very strong supporter of Mark Sanchez in the draft and felt like he was as good as it gets in terms of projecting a QB to the NFL with only one season of starting experience under his belt. He was clutch and played his best in the biggest games at USC. He dominated. It's ironic because I tend to place a tremendous amount of significance on starting experience at the quarterback position. Sanchez was an exception.


He's actually performed pretty much like I thought he would thus far considering he wasn't ready to be thrown in the fire from day 1.... but he was, and he's handled it better than 99% of quarterbacks thrown into that situation in NFL history ever have. There was a tremendous learning curve for him from his rookie year to his second year.

I don't think he's done getting better. He just threw 26 TD's in his 3rd year in the league. Miami hasn't had a quarterback throw for 26 TD's since Marino in '94.

I'll always maintain that Mark Sanchez is better than a lot of people think.
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He may be but i hate him..........He's a Jet :crazy:
 
Moore's name has been dragged through the mud over the past month as a result of all the trade rumors and Dolphin bashing. He's not getting credit for playing well last year. If he improves on his passer rating of 87.1 by even a little, the Dolphins could be competing for a playoff spot. People forget Reggie Bush was blowing up and Dolphins lost a lot of close games last year.

We better than people think. Pure guess, but I predict Miami will try to trade the extra draft picks from Marshall to move up and select Justin Blackman.
 
For the 1 millionth time. Tannehill's hands are only 9". His hands will be a big detriment in wet or colder weather. He will struggle in the Northeastern U.S. late in the season or when playing in rainy games.
 
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