Manning, Colts, in the right place at the right time.

[BlueFin]

Its really no coincedence that in the two (2) seasons that have been effected by the new changes to how pass interference would be enforced, Peyton Manning broke Marino'sTD passes in a season mark by 1, and is now threatening to lead his Colts to only the second perfect season in history.

I wrote this thread almost exactly a year ago about this very subject and it was met with mixed reactions.

http://www.finheaven.com/boardvb2/showthread.php?t=57895

I for one don't believe in coincedences this abnormal, two years in a row.

Prior to these changes Peyton Manning couldn't win a playoff game, now he is knocking down mountains.

I don't write this so much to knock Manning, who I think is a great player, the important thing to draw from this is the importance of the passing game in todays NFL, the one drastically changed before the 2004 season.

I believe the running game is still important from the standpoint of having balance and in being more difficult to defend against, but without a really good passing offense I don't think a team can win it all anymore, the days of the Ravens and Bucs from 2000 and 2002 are over now, you will not win it anymore with mediocre quarterbacking.

Receivers are now running free in secondaries like never before, this is why a smart, polished, accurate QB like Manning can tear the league up, I hate to think about what Marino would be doing to this league right now if his receivers could not be touched past 5 yards AT ALL.

I believe Saban understands all this, that is why I think you see an aggressive OC who likes to throw the football here in Linehan, and its also why I think you'll see a top, strong armed QB in a Dolphin uniform real soon, because, while runningbacks and defenses are still very important to having a complete team, nothing is more important in this league today than the ability to strike downfield accurately and often.

 

[ckparrothead]

Man I think some people just need to get over the fact that Peyton's name is going to be right up there with the best QBs the NFL has ever seen.

 

[BlueFin]

Man I think some people just need to get over the fact that Peyton's name is going to be right up there with the best QBs the NFL has ever seen.

CK, you either didn't read it or it flew over your head.

1) Peyton is a great player, I have no problem in acknowledging that.

2) The point of the thread was to point out how in my opinion the rules changes dictate a high powered passing offense is neccesary to dominate in this league.

3) If you think whats transpired in the last two years has nothing to do with the changes in PI enforcement you are naive.

 

[Gonk]

While I agree that the rule change has helped Manning and the Colts offense, we shouldn't knock their team at all. They have the best team I've seen since the Rams in the late 90's and they wouldn't surprise me at all if they finished up the season undefeated.

You seem to be forgetting that on top of Manning and his recievers, the Colts also have the NFL's leading rusher as well as the 3rd best defense.

They are just a great team and I think Manning will break a lot more of Marino's records when it is all said and done.

 

[ckparrothead]

CK, you either didn't read it or it flew over your head.

1) Peyton is a great player, I have no problem in acknowledging that.

2) The point of the thread was to point out how in my opinion the rules changes dictate a high powered passing offense is neccesary to dominate in this league.

3) If you think whats transpired in the last two years has nothing to do with the changes in PI enforcement you are naive.

Every great accomplishment has a "right place, right time" factor involved. I see no difference between Peyton's performances and the myriad other records that involved some "right place, right time" in it.

 

[BlueFin]

Every great accomplishment has a "right place, right time" factor involved. I see no difference between Peyton's performances and the myriad other records that involved some "right place, right time" in it.

The point CK, was not to start a bash Peyton thread, it was to discuss the changes in the league and how it will/should affect the Dolphins in building their team.

A logical person can see the explosion of Peyton Manning and his Colts coinciding with these Changes, and rightly conclude in my opinon that passing is more important than ever.

 

[jlfin]

Man I think some people just need to get over the fact that Peyton's name is going to be right up there with the best QBs the NFL has ever seen.

Most non-phin fans rank Montana and Elway ahead of Marino ( i don't), because of SB wins. If Peyton wins one he will surpass Marino in the eyes of many.
I personally feel that using SB wins as a measuring stick is ridiculous because football is the ultimate team game. QB has no control over the defense, ST's or running game.
This is not the NBA with only 5 guys on the court at one time.

 

[dolphan117]

I do agree that the rule changes have helped the offense(which it was designed to do) but the botum line is that Manning is just outstanding. The same rules that helped Manning get the record last year were there for any other qb to exploit as well and Peyton dominated all of them. I agree with CK that this is how most records are set, a great player who happens to find himself in a situation where he can have succsess.

 

[BlueFin]

While I agree that the rule change has helped Manning and the Colts offense, we shouldn't knock their team at all. They have the best team I've seen since the Rams in the late 90's and they wouldn't surprise me at all if they finished up the season undefeated.

You seem to be forgetting that on top of Manning and his recievers, the Colts also have the NFL's leading rusher as well as the 3rd best defense.

They are just a great team and I think Manning will break a lot more of Marino's records when it is all said and done.

I really don't care what records he breaks, you like CK missed the point of the thread, which is how those changes in PI enforcement effect offensive football in the NFL since 2004.

 

[BlueFin]

Every great accomplishment has a "right place, right time" factor involved. I see no difference between Peyton's performances and the myriad other records that involved some "right place, right time" in it.

By the way, you didn't address any of three points I listed in the second post, I REALLY am more interested in having a discussion about how these changes effect the Dolphins than anything else.

 

[LostInPatsLand]

Its really no coincedence that in the two (2) seasons that have been effected by the new changes to how pass interference would be enforced, Peyton Manning broke Marino'sTD passes in a season mark by 1, and is now threatening to lead his Colts to only the second perfect season in history.

I wrote this thread almost exactly a year ago about this very subject and it was met with mixed reactions.

http://www.finheaven.com/boardvb2/showthread.php?t=57895

I for one don't believe in coincedences this abnormal, two years in a row.

Prior to these changes Peyton Manning couldn't win a playoff game, now he is knocking down mountains.

I don't write this so much to knock Manning, who I think is a great player, the important thing to draw from this is the importance of the passing game in todays NFL, the one drastically changed before the 2004 season.

I believe the running game is still important from the standpoint of having balance and in being more difficult to defend against, but without a really good passing offense I don't think a team can win it all anymore, the days of the Ravens and Bucs from 2000 and 2002 are over now, you will not win it anymore with mediocre quarterbacking.

Receivers are now running free in secondaries like never before, this is why a smart, polished, accurate QB like Manning can tear the league up, I hate to think about what Marino would be doing to this league right now if his receivers could not be touched past 5 yards AT ALL.

I believe Saban understands all this, that is why I think you see an aggressive OC who likes to throw the football here in Linehan, and its also why I think you'll see a top, strong armed QB in a Dolphin uniform real soon, because, while runningbacks and defenses are still very important to having a complete team, nothing is more important in this league today than the ability to strike downfield accurately and often.

Great, great analysis. Perhaps one of the best threads I've seen all year. I think you are right on the money about Peyton Manning, the Colts, and Saban and the Dolphins' offense, but I do think that a little luck is involved with any type of success. For example, the undefeated '72 Dolphins were lucky that their schedule was pretty easy. The probablilty that they would have gone undefeated would have been significantly reduced if they had had a hard schedule. However, this should not take away from their accomplishment. Also, luck had a hand in Marino's amazing '84 season. It was lucky for us that Marino fell to one of the best teams in the '83 draft with Nat Moore, Mark Duper, etc... Marino wouldn't have had that season if he had been drafted by the Colts like John Elway. However, this too should not take away from his accomplishments.

 

[dolphan117]

I really don't care what records he breaks, you like CK missed the point of the thread, which is how those changes in PI enforcement effect offensive football in the NFL since 2004.

That I agree with. The NFL has made an effort to make the game more exiting and to make sure enoughg points are scored in the game to hold the fans intrest. I agree with you that the NFL is now slanted towards teams that can throw the football. Just look at the SB winers for the last 4 years. NE is based on Brady's ability to throw the ball while playing great D. Of the 3 SB's they have won only last year did they have a real runing game. If I remember corectly when they won the first one they had the 32nd ranked run offense in the league.(And this was before the PI rule change) When Tampa won it they did it again with great D and the arm of Brad Johnson.

This seems to be the new mold of how you build a team. Its no longer play great D and run the football, its play great D and throw the football. The 2 teams right now who still have tried to continue in the old vein are the Steelers and the Ravens. The Ravens won a SB but even they started to trow the ball well late in the season.(Not at the start but during there late run, the run was still huge for them though) The Ravens however havnt had much sucess since. The Steelers are probably the best current exampe of the Run It And Play Great D and it has brought them some real success but not the big one. It just seems like that mold of a team leaves you very little room for error where if you are a passing team you are never out of a game.(Like last Sunday) I know some of that effects before the new PI rules but I think this trend has been building for some time. Long post I know but its snowing and I have nothing better to do.

Edit-Sorry to repeat some of your point there BlueFin

 

[inFINSible]

Its really no coincedence that in the two (2) seasons that have been effected by the new changes to how pass interference would be enforced, Peyton Manning broke Marino'sTD passes in a season mark by 1, and is now threatening to lead his Colts to only the second perfect season in history.

I wrote this thread almost exactly a year ago about this very subject and it was met with mixed reactions.

http://www.finheaven.com/boardvb2/showthread.php?t=57895

I for one don't believe in coincedences this abnormal, two years in a row.

Prior to these changes Peyton Manning couldn't win a playoff game, now he is knocking down mountains.

I don't write this so much to knock Manning, who I think is a great player, the important thing to draw from this is the importance of the passing game in todays NFL, the one drastically changed before the 2004 season.

I believe the running game is still important from the standpoint of having balance and in being more difficult to defend against, but without a really good passing offense I don't think a team can win it all anymore, the days of the Ravens and Bucs from 2000 and 2002 are over now, you will not win it anymore with mediocre quarterbacking.

Receivers are now running free in secondaries like never before, this is why a smart, polished, accurate QB like Manning can tear the league up, I hate to think about what Marino would be doing to this league right now if his receivers could not be touched past 5 yards AT ALL.

I believe Saban understands all this, that is why I think you see an aggressive OC who likes to throw the football here in Linehan, and its also why I think you'll see a top, strong armed QB in a Dolphin uniform real soon, because, while runningbacks and defenses are still very important to having a complete team, nothing is more important in this league today than the ability to strike downfield accurately and often.

Well, at least you didn't just say, "We need to draft a QB in the first round."

 

[Itsdahumidity]

I really don't care what records he breaks, you like CK missed the point of the thread, which is how those changes in PI enforcement effect offensive football in the NFL since 2004.

I got you Blue. Many fail to realize that at some point (maybe 4 to 5 yrs ago) defenses across the league were way ahead talent-wise of offenses, resulting in low scoring gms. Tags couldn't stand it so here came the rules enforcement.

Look P.Manning is well on his way to becoming a great qb so nothing against him, but to not see him as the number one beneficiary of this new wide open, no touch league is a little shortsighted.

The nfl begrudgenly rode the pats' "team" concept because there were a lack of offensive star power. I believe the league dodged a bullet because what if ne didn't have those coordinator defections & injuries? Would we really trust Manning to beat them? Anyway with the young offensive talent in CIN, SD and the younger Manning, don't be surprised if these numbers ridiculously increase to a point were 14, 15 win & chances of undefeated seasons become commonplace.

 

[DPlus47]

The nfl begrudgenly rode the pats' "team" concept because there were a lack of offensive star power. I believe the league dodged a bullet because what if ne didn't have those coordinator defections & injuries? Would we really trust Manning to beat them? Anyway with the young offensive talent in CIN, SD and the younger Manning, don't be surprised if these numbers ridiculously increase to a point were 14, 15 win & chances of undefeated seasons become commonplace.

all that makes sense. isn't every player who does something good nowadays considered one of the best ever?

the next big game peyton wins will be the first, so, no, he couldn't beat a better new england team than this one. and he still hasn't beaten anyone in this year's playoffs. i'll give him credit if he does it, and if he doesn't, i'm sure there will be more rules changes in effect next year. it's not a personal thing between the league and peyton, it's an offense thing.