Merge 3 x: GINN Vs HESTER!!!!

[JT-forpresident]

Ted Ginn stats vs. Hester...

Just comparing GInn and Hester's stats from college


ted ginn:

http://www.tedginnonline.com/ted-ginn-stats.php
TOTAL TDs: 7
ATTEMPS: 87




I didn't find the 2005 stats.. it sucks but heck: HESTER:

http://hurricanesports.cstv.com/sports/m-footbl/mtt/hester_devin00.html

TOTAL TDs: 5
Attemps: 52


i read somewhere he recorded a total of 6 KOR for tds , so this boosts it to 8 total tds ( do the math ) ... a big if surrounds the number of returns he had in 2005... if the trend goes on , he should have had a total of 35 + 52 so 87 attemps (do the math again, and do not consider the fact he did not return kickoffs in 2003..) ... another problem is that i do not have the number of PR he made for tds in 2005.. but if i do recall right, he returned 2 .. so it boosts it to 10 tds


so
ginn: 7 tds on 87 attemps
hester 10 tds on 87 attemps
theorical hester numbers as i've said earlier, anyone who finds info is welcomed to correc me !



when you watch the average yds, hester is slightly above Ginn...
but what really strikes me is when hester posted 517 yards in 18 attemps for KOR in 2003... that's about 200 yards more than ginn (352 ) in 2005 for the same amount of attemps....

My point is Hester is slighlty better statisticaly speaking than ginn on returns.... Am I really worried ? no, because numbers talk, but when they are this close, it's not a big difference IMO .... AND, hester made an nfl record last year, so if ginn can produce 75%, heck even 50% of what hester did last year, i'll be darn happy, and happier if he outperforms him !

 

[arsenal]

whats even more crazy is Ginn was also catching passes and running routes all game, even taking carries and playing behind center at times... while hester was... drinking gatorade on the bench?

people seem to want to dismiss that Ginn was the number 1 receiver on the number 1 team in the country, how can no one care about that and consider him just a KR like hester?

 

[JFoxx]

While college stats don't always equate to pro success, you get to an issue that some forget. Hester wasn't expected to do all that much coming out of college because his numbers were decent while at the U, but not staggering. Why? Because the U never really built a gameplan around him and the special teams like the Bears did when he got there. Same could be said for Ginn with us. Question is, will we put as much time and effort in building a special teams gameplan around Ginn like the Bears did with Hester. A lot of teams forget about this and just go through the motions with ST's. If we put the right personnel, coaching and thought into our ST, I don't see why he couldn't put up some decent #'s for us this year. Even if it doesn't always equate to a TD, significant field position could increase our scoring chances dramatically this year.

 

[cashman34]

I feel you big dawg...but Ginn can actual play a position on offense. As for Hester no one can seem to find a place for him during the offensive series. So Ginn will have more of an opportunity to contribute for our team than Hester.

Now I am a Florida native so it's actually against our "code of conduct" to hate on a football player from the home state. Though I am happy for Hester anyway...what he did last year was remarkable! I still can't beleive that Denny Green actually kicked the ball to him. He deserved to be fired!

 

[SabanHater]

I'll wait and see with my own two eyes this season.

 

[go_fins]

I'd rather wait until Gin plays a game before comparing him to Hester. Hester broke records playing againts NFL teams, Ginn hasn't even taken a snap.

 

[JT-forpresident]

whats even more crazy is Ginn was also catching passes and running routes all game, even taking carries and playing behind center at times... while hester was... drinking gatorade on the bench?

people seem to want to dismiss that Ginn was the number 1 receiver on the number 1 team in the country, how can no one care about that and consider him just a KR like hester?

:yeahthat: forgot to mention this and it's darn true

 

[musphinzfan]

whats even more crazy is Ginn was also catching passes and running routes all game, even taking carries and playing behind center at times... while hester was... drinking gatorade on the bench?

people seem to want to dismiss that Ginn was the number 1 receiver on the number 1 team in the country, how can no one care about that and consider him just a KR like hester?

Hester ran the ball,ran routes and played defense in dime and nickel packages....Hester wasnt a slotch but he never settled into any 1 position besides PR and mostly KR.

 

[ckparrothead]

While college stats don't always equate to pro success, you get to an issue that some forget. Hester wasn't expected to do all that much coming out of college because his numbers were decent while at the U, but not staggering. Why? Because the U never really built a gameplan around him and the special teams like the Bears did when he got there. Same could be said for Ginn with us. Question is, will we put as much time and effort in building a special teams gameplan around Ginn like the Bears did with Hester. A lot of teams forget about this and just go through the motions with ST's. If we put the right personnel, coaching and thought into our ST, I don't see why he couldn't put up some decent #'s for us this year. Even if it doesn't always equate to a TD, significant field position could increase our scoring chances dramatically this year.

Devin Hester was a second round pick in the NFL Draft. Second round picks are expected to make an impact. When that second round pick was spent on a guy that would be a virtual non-factor in the regular defense and the regular offense, in other words just a return specialist, then that player had better have a BIG impact on special teams.

For that reason, there is a very big flaw in your statement that "Hester wasn't expected to do all that much."

I don't think you'd find any special teams coach out there that says that they just go through the motions on special teams. Every team has a dozen or so players on roster that know they're there for special teams purposes and without that edge, they're on the street. Every team has a highly-paid coach whose sole job it is to get the special teams units to perform at a high level. A wedge buster flies down the field at maximum speed and basically tosses his body into another big guy flying down the field at breakneck speed...and if you've never done it, you don't know how much it hurts.

 

[ckparrothead]

Just comparing GInn and Hester's stats from college


ted ginn:

http://www.tedginnonline.com/ted-ginn-stats.php
TOTAL TDs: 7
ATTEMPS: 87




I didn't find the 2005 stats.. it sucks but heck: HESTER:

http://hurricanesports.cstv.com/sports/m-footbl/mtt/hester_devin00.html

TOTAL TDs: 5
Attemps: 52


i read somewhere he recorded a total of 6 KOR for tds , so this boosts it to 8 total tds ( do the math ) ... a big if surrounds the number of returns he had in 2005... if the trend goes on , he should have had a total of 35 + 52 so 87 attemps (do the math again, and do not consider the fact he did not return kickoffs in 2003..) ... another problem is that i do not have the number of PR he made for tds in 2005.. but if i do recall right, he returned 2 .. so it boosts it to 10 tds


so
ginn: 7 tds on 87 attemps
hester 10 tds on 87 attemps
theorical hester numbers as i've said earlier, anyone who finds info is welcomed to correc me !



when you watch the average yds, hester is slightly above Ginn...
but what really strikes me is when hester posted 517 yards in 18 attemps for KOR in 2003... that's about 200 yards more than ginn (352 ) in 2005 for the same amount of attemps....

My point is Hester is slighlty better statisticaly speaking than ginn on returns.... Am I really worried ? no, because numbers talk, but when they are this close, it's not a big difference IMO .... AND, hester made an nfl record last year, so if ginn can produce 75%, heck even 50% of what hester did last year, i'll be darn happy, and happier if he outperforms him !

As for the statistical analysis above, I question where you got the stats.

For Devin Hester, he had 40 kick returns for 1019 yards and 2 TDs. He had 41 punt returns for 638 yards and 4 TDs. On offense he had 24 rushes for 157 yards and 1 TD. He also had 10 receptions for 196 yards and 0 TDs.

Altogether he had 6 TDs on 81 returns, which is one touchdown for every 13.5 returns. He added 1 TD on 30 offensive touches.

Ted Ginn Jr. had 38 kick returns for 1012 yards and 2 TDs. He had 64 punt returns for 900 yards and 6 TDs. On offense, he had 28 rushes for 213 yards and 3 TDs, also had 135 receptions for 1943 yards and 15 TDs. He added 2 pass attempts for 38 yards and 1 TD, for good measure.

Altogether he had 8 TDs on 102 returns. This is one touchdown for every 12.8 returns. He added 19 TDs on 165 offensive touches, an average of one TD every 8.7 touches.

Altogether, Ted Ginn's college record of returns was more decorated than Devin Hester's. His record as a contributor on offense is of course exponentially better. Hester recorded 4 interceptions on defense but he still was not a very good corner.

 

[JT-forpresident]

As for the statistical analysis above, I question where you got the stats.

For Devin Hester, he had 40 kick returns for 1019 yards and 2 TDs. He had 41 punt returns for 638 yards and 4 TDs. On offense he had 24 rushes for 157 yards and 1 TD. He also had 10 receptions for 196 yards and 0 TDs.

Altogether he had 6 TDs on 81 returns, which is one touchdown for every 13.5 returns. He added 1 TD on 30 offensive touches.

Ted Ginn Jr. had 38 kick returns for 1012 yards and 2 TDs. He had 64 punt returns for 900 yards and 6 TDs. On offense, he had 28 rushes for 213 yards and 3 TDs, also had 135 receptions for 1943 yards and 15 TDs. He added 2 pass attempts for 38 yards and 1 TD, for good measure.

Altogether he had 8 TDs on 102 returns. This is one touchdown for every 12.8 returns. He added 19 TDs on 165 offensive touches, an average of one TD every 8.7 touches.

Altogether, Ted Ginn's college record of returns was more decorated than Devin Hester's. His record as a contributor on offense is of course exponentially better. Hester recorded 4 interceptions on defense but he still was not a very good corner.

I used the only numbers I found on internet... couldn't find the 2005 stats of hester but It's awkward that my ginn numbers aren't correct... I'm pretty sure you have better info than me since you're a great poster, but then again when I watch the numbers you just gave, I'm pretty happy with the similarities... offensively ginn produced more and i knew it, i just wanted to compare the STs numbers !

 

[ckparrothead]

I used the only numbers I found on internet... couldn't find the 2005 stats of hester but It's awkward that my ginn numbers aren't correct... I'm pretty sure you have better info than me since you're an insider, but then again when I watch the numbers you just gave, I'm pretty happy with the similarities... offensively ginn produced more and i knew it, i just wanted to compare the STs numbers !

You could compile either player's stats with a little elbow grease just by going to Yahoo Sports' NCAA Football site and going to either Ohio State's page or Miami's page then clicking on "Stats" where they have each team's stats for the year. They have multiple years, too...going all the way back to 2003.

 

[JFoxx]

Devin Hester was a second round pick in the NFL Draft. Second round picks are expected to make an impact. When that second round pick was spent on a guy that would be a virtual non-factor in the regular defense and the regular offense, in other words just a return specialist, then that player had better have a BIG impact on special teams.

For that reason, there is a very big flaw in your statement that "Hester wasn't expected to do all that much."

I don't think you'd find any special teams coach out there that says that they just go through the motions on special teams. Every team has a dozen or so players on roster that know they're there for special teams purposes and without that edge, they're on the street. Every team has a highly-paid coach whose sole job it is to get the special teams units to perform at a high level. A wedge buster flies down the field at maximum speed and basically tosses his body into another big guy flying down the field at breakneck speed...and if you've never done it, you don't know how much it hurts.

I don't disagree with what you are saying, but you made some assumptions on my statement that weren't intended.
When I said "Hester wasn't expected to do that much", I meant by the media and most scouts. Chicago had a different plan for him altogether.
In my statement about special teams, I didn't imply that all teams and especially ST coaches didn't take their role seriously, but rather that many head coaches or team philosophies really don't play a heavy emphasis towards the special teams, whereas the Bears had it as one of their key roles along with their Defense. Their ST and Def won just as many, if not more, games as their offense did. Honestly, how many teams really have consistent game changing affect on their ST's ? (Chicago, KC a few years ago, and maybe 1 or two others). So sorry for the non-clarity CK. I respect your opinion on this board, but think you missed the point I was trying to make. Which is that we need to try and utilize Ginn kind of like the Bears did with Hester. I know every ST coach has that as a goal/objective, but the Bears went out of their way to try and create opportunities to get him in the open field against teams.
And I have been on both sides of the kick-off process in conjuction with playing both Off and Def. I know it wasn't pros or college ball, but the experience is very similiar, so I do know what wedge busting feels like. But I also know how important special teams can play into winning a game or putting our offense into scoring position, so the game's still the same regardless of the level and how much the coaches are paid. Talent and having a good gameplan make a big difference. Now that we have the talent, let's just hope we have the right ST gameplan for getting him in the open field (that's my main point). :)

 

[ckparrothead]

I didn't really miss your point at all, I just think it's kind of circular logic. The Bears drafted Devin Hester in the 2nd round because they care about special teams. Drafting Devin Hester was their way of making special teams important. Not every team would have done that. But as for finding ways to get him the ball in the open field, that's just not true on offense. Sure, they'll be trying that some this year (and we'll see how successful it is), but otherwise they didn't do anything that any other special teams unit would not have done when it came to Devin Hester on returns. The abnormal thing they did was draft Hester in the 2nd round as a return man. That was it.

And as for scouts and media not expecting him to produce much, it would be wise to level that criticism against the media, at most...and even that much isn't true. Local chicago media knew they drafted a return man in the 2nd round, and they knew he had better have a big impact if that draft pick is ever going to be deemed worth it. Meanwhile, scouts knew perfectly well what kind of movement skills Devin Hester had. Frank Coyle openly referred to Hester as the best return man to come out in multiple decades.

He has since referred to Ted Ginn Jr. as the best return man to come out, ever.

 

[juniorseau55]

I feel you big dawg...but Ginn can actual play a position on offense. As for Hester no one can seem to find a place for him during the offensive series. So Ginn will have more of an opportunity to contribute for our team than Hester.

Now I am a Florida native so it's actually against our "code of conduct" to hate on a football player from the home state. Though I am happy for Hester anyway...what he did last year was remarkable! I still can't beleive that Denny Green actually kicked the ball to him. He deserved to be fired!

The hell are you talking about. There is no code dude. The only code is the bs you are talking about haha.