Merged: Concern about early returns on Camueller?

[thedayafter]

I am excited as any fan about the prospects for the Dolphins under Cam...but I have to point out the guy is full of mixed messages..imo...

And in some cases he's made some very questionable moves..

• QB spot is open for competition... Cams words... and proven not to be the case.
• I won't judge DC until he's 100% healthy and I see him on the field with my own eyes... well we know that was not the case as well.
• Cam gets his guy, TG.. I get that... but whined about how KC was holding on to TG... and then does the same with DC.
• He undoubtably showed the vets a side they don't want to see and don't respect in a coach... not allowing an injured player an opportunity.
• By holding on to DC for "value" he stripped any chance for value by not allowing DC to throw the ball around in shorts... in June... and created a circus as well.
• Has a rush to judgement on Evans stating immediately.. "we will not tolerate this behavior"... and then waits a week to cut the guy... mostly because he was forced to act on his own words to save face.... but does nothing about Porter... who was convicted.. and takes the "we are getting all the facts" POV on Chambers... Evan's is still innocent.
• Had to finally cut DC because Dolphin players were going to testify on DC's behalf... taking the circus to whole new level...

My point being.... it's time to start to take a harder look at how Cam is handling his first HC experience... because there are some signals that things aren't what they seem.

 

[dolpns13]

I am excited as any fan about the prospects for the Dolphins under Cam...but I have to point out the guy is full of mixed messages..imo...

And in some cases he's made some very questionable moves..

• QB spot is open for competition... Cams words... and proven not to be the case.
• I won't judge DC until he's 100% healthy and I see him on the field with my own eyes... well we know that was not the case as well.
• Cam gets his guy, TG.. I get that... but whined about how KC was holding on to TG... and then does the same with DC.
• He undoubtably showed the vets a side they don't want to see and don't respect in a coach... not allowing an injured player an opportunity.
• By holding on to DC for "value" he stripped any chance for value by not allowing DC to throw the ball around in shorts... in June... and created a circus as well.
• Has a rush to judgement on Evans stating immediately.. "we will not tolerate this behavior"... and then waits a week to cut the guy... mostly because he was forced to act on his own words to save face.... but does nothing about Porter... who was convicted.. and takes the "we are getting all the facts" POV on Chambers... Evan's is still innocent.
• Had to finally cut DC because Dolphin players were going to testify on DC's behalf... taking the circus to whole new level...

My point being.... it's time to start to take a harder look at how Cam is handling his first HC experience... because there are some signals that things aren't what they seem.

Tis isnt all Cam...He also has to work with Randy on these decisions. Remember the coach does not do the hiring and firing, he only influences it, the GM is the ultimate decision maker and makes the last move

 

[thedayafter]

Tis isnt all Cam...He also has to work with Randy on these decisions. Remember the coach does not do the hiring and firing, he only influences it, the GM is the ultimate decision maker and makes the last move

While I agree to certain extent... but when I read items that RM was not "all in" on how we went about the TG deal... I have to wonder.... when Cam is in the media immediately about Evans... I have to wonder.... When Cam tells the team prior to practice that DC is not part of team drills... I have to wonder....

Cams fingerprints are all over these items... are Randy's.. partials... imo

 

[Dolfan1000]

Excuse me?

Daunte Culpepper was not healthy. He COULD NOT practice until May. How long were we supposed to wait and give him this "chance"? If he couldnt get on the field, then are we supposed to wait and sacrifice this season to see if maybe, just maybe, Daunte can come back and be a solid starter? Please. He DID wait to evaluate Daunte - he waited until early June and our final minicamp! At what point was he allowed to sit back and say, you know what, maybe this guy just isnt going to get healthy and the Miami Dolphins must move forward. Plus, have you ever heard of Coachspeak? It may be an unfortunate reality, but it just that- a REALITY - in today's NFL. Was Cam to come out the day he was hired and say, "Yup, Daunte is done here. Im looking to trade for someone else as we speak." No. Does that make him a bad coach and a liar? NO! It happens every day, with every team and every coach. The NFL is a business, and the constraints of this business force those involved to sometimes stretch the truth and speak in a way that a) provides a team with the competitive advantage over others and b) doesnt violate rules regarding tampering etc.

Furthermore:
-Cam never complained openly about the Chiefs holding Trent. Ever.
-Vets want to win. Bottom line. They will forget very quickly if Trent comes in and plays well. Enough of this emotional "Daunte is my friend and deserves a chance..." He wasnt healthy, he lost that chance. Thats the bottom line.
-Evans was a fringe player (despite his hype on these boards). We dont know how his career will turn out. But cutting him was a no brainer. His charges were completely different from Chambers' and Porter's, both of whom are INTEGRAL pieces to this team. No coach in the NFL would have done differently.

 

[madisonfan90]

He has a history of mistreating veterans, last year in playoffs he benched Keenan McCardell when even some of the players said he had no right to do so. That even might of been the difference maker in losing to the Pats.

 

[bkbuffet]

I am excited as any fan about the prospects for the Dolphins under Cam...but I have to point out the guy is full of mixed messages..imo...

And in some cases he's made some very questionable moves..

• QB spot is open for competition... Cams words... and proven not to be the case.
• I won't judge DC until he's 100% healthy and I see him on the field with my own eyes... well we know that was not the case as well.
• Cam gets his guy, TG.. I get that... but whined about how KC was holding on to TG... and then does the same with DC.
• He undoubtably showed the vets a side they don't want to see and don't respect in a coach... not allowing an injured player an opportunity.
• By holding on to DC for "value" he stripped any chance for value by not allowing DC to throw the ball around in shorts... in June... and created a circus as well.
• Has a rush to judgement on Evans stating immediately.. "we will not tolerate this behavior"... and then waits a week to cut the guy... mostly because he was forced to act on his own words to save face.... but does nothing about Porter... who was convicted.. and takes the "we are getting all the facts" POV on Chambers... Evan's is still innocent.
• Had to finally cut DC because Dolphin players were going to testify on DC's behalf... taking the circus to whole new level...

My point being.... it's time to start to take a harder look at how Cam is handling his first HC experience... because there are some signals that things aren't what they seem.

I see what you are trying to say here, but you are not really giving all the facts.
DC never really fit into Cam's style of offense. If for some reason they were not able to get the deal done for Green, I'm sure there would have been a completely open competition, and Cam made that statement before the deal was done. Green is experience and thrives in Cam's offense. I'm sure if by some chance Lemon or Beck show something incredible at TC, they could start, but it's not likely. I really don't think the hearing had as much to do with DC's release as everyone is making it. They did the 'fair thing' and released DC before TC started so he could get signed with another team before it started, but it would have been foolish to not at least hold out a bit in case someone bit on a trade.
You can't even compare the situations with Porter, Evans, and Chambers. For one, neither Porter or Chambers assaulted an officer or needed to be tazered. I'm not defending the actions of either one, but after being caught, they both at least cooperated with the authorities.

 

[thedayafter]

Excuse me?

Daunte Culpepper was not healthy. He COULD NOT practice until May.

DC was cleared by both the team doctors and Dr. Andrews.. he was a go this last time out.

How long were we supposed to wait and give him this "chance"? If he couldnt get on the field, then are we supposed to wait and sacrifice this season to see if maybe, just maybe, Daunte can come back and be a solid starter?

What "sacrifice" TG was in the house... there was no downside to having DC show other teams he had value... he was going either way.

Please. He DID wait to evaluate Daunte - he waited until early June and our final minicamp! At what point was he allowed to sit back and say, you know what, maybe this guy just isnt going to get healthy and the Miami Dolphins must move forward.

The very point is... Cam said he would'nt judge DC until he saw him on the field... cam never let that happen...

And understand this... I am NOT defending DC here.. IMO... Cam botched this deal!

Plus, have you ever heard of Coachspeak?

You know when I see active leaders on this team question some of Cams "coachspeak"... it gets my attention.

It may be an unfortunate reality, but it just that- a REALITY - in today's NFL. Was Cam to come out the day he was hired and say, "Yup, Daunte is done here. Im looking to trade for someone else as we speak." No. Does that make him a bad coach and a liar? NO! It happens every day, with every team and every coach. The NFL is a business, and the constraints of this business force those involved to sometimes stretch the truth and speak in a way that a) provides a team with the competitive advantage over others and b) doesnt violate rules regarding tampering etc.

Furthermore:
-Cam never complained openly about the Chiefs holding Trent. Ever.
-Vets want to win. Bottom line. They will forget very quickly if Trent comes in and plays well. Enough of this emotional "Daunte is my friend and deserves a chance..." He wasnt healthy, he lost that chance. Thats the bottom line.

As stated... this ISN"T about DC... iot's about Cams decisions!
-Evans was a fringe player (despite his hype on these boards). We dont know how his career will turn out. But cutting him was a no brainer. His charges were completely different from Chambers' and Porter's, both of whom are INTEGRAL pieces to this team. No coach in the NFL would have done differently.

Pretty sure Capers.. who rarely speaks to the press.. comes out and states Evans is pushing to be in the rotation with Traylor... I take notice...

So in closing, maybe you should take a step back and assess what I wrote instead of assuming my POV...

 

[Crypt Keeper]

He has a history of mistreating veterans, last year in playoffs he benched Keenan McCardell when even some of the players said he had no right to do so. That even might of been the difference maker in losing to the Pats.

McCardell sucked last year, so he probably deserved to be benched.

 

[Shamboubou]

Boo Hoo Daunte is gone, and we are better off. Lets all cry together now cause he was just so mistreated. Daunte screwed himself when he said that he would stop and trade from happening. Once that was stated Daunte had lost the respect of the front office and was treated the way he should have been like a big mouth idiot. Culpepper couldn't get healthy and IMO will probably never play football again. You can't pay somebody that kind of money to sit the bench hurt for 2 years.

He's gone get over it.

 

[Dolfan1000]

I saw what you wrote. I saw that you included the facts supporting your point of view, and omitted the ones that did not.

DC was cleared the week we acquired Trent. The deal was practically done at that point. And you want to talk downside to having Daunte participate? Risking injury and a guaranteed salary, taking snaps from th guys who actually need them (ie Beck and Trent) etc. Theres plenty of things beyond what we as fans see that really made this a complicated situation. Plus, I dont put much stock in being cleated to practice. Wasn Daunte cleatred to practice last season? The guy could battle all he wanted, he could barely drop back, he couldnt step up, and there was a NOTICEABLE limp. He had zero explosiveness in his legs. So ya, I dont think being cleared means the guy is healthy by NO STRETCH. Last year pretty much shows this.

As for Fred, I cant argue he had potential. But no way can compare his situation to Chris Chambers' or Joey Porter's.

 

[thedayafter]

I see what you are trying to say here, but you are not really giving all the facts.
DC never really fit into Cam's style of offense.

I totally agree, but the point isn't about DC... it's about Cams decisions.

If for some reason they were not able to get the deal done for Green, I'm sure there would have been a completely open competition, and Cam made that statement before the deal was done.

Cam made this statement to Lemon... it was all a bunch of whooee.

Green is experience and thrives in Cam's offense. I'm sure if by some chance Lemon or Beck show something incredible at TC, they could start, but it's not likely. I really don't think the hearing had as much to do with DC's release as everyone is making it.

Well if it didn't... the timing is sure suspect!


They did the 'fair thing' and released DC before TC started so he could get signed with another team before it started, but it would have been foolish to not at least hold out a bit in case someone bit on a trade.

Like Cam pushed for TG when Mueller wasn't "all in"... we could have waited and not given up a 5th or a 4th....there was nothing fair about the way Cam handled the DC deal... not that I care about DC... but the message sent to guys like Taylor... they didn't like it...

You can't even compare the situations with Porter, Evans, and Chambers. For one, neither Porter or Chambers assaulted an officer or needed to be tazered. I'm not defending the actions of either one, but after being caught, they both at least cooperated with the authorities.

Point being... Cam should have taken a step back... he probably cost us and emerging talent by not waiting for the process to run it's course... they all were arrested... Porter for assault.. and convicted on a lesser charge..

 

[Dolfan1000]

You say its not about DC but about Cam's decisions, yet the fact that he didnt fit the scheme is extremely relevant. I dont think you ever heard Cam say "Daunte WILL be involved in the open competition at the QB position". He said there would be open competition at the position, naming no names as to who would be up for the job. The DAY Trent was acquired. Cam and Randy met with Daunte and informed him he was no longer in the plans.

 

[thedayafter]

Boo Hoo Daunte is gone, and we are better off. Lets all cry together now cause he was just so mistreated. Daunte screwed himself when he said that he would stop and trade from happening. Once that was stated Daunte had lost the respect of the front office and was treated the way he should have been like a big mouth idiot. Culpepper couldn't get healthy and IMO will probably never play football again. You can't pay somebody that kind of money to sit the bench hurt for 2 years.

He's gone get over it.

What is it about you types that see this as about DC... and not about the decisions Cam is making.... read the words... don't assume.... I don't care what ahppens to DC or about his career... I CARE about the decisions Cam is making for the team... you get that!

 

[jdang307]

Evans was already convicted and on probation. Then he got arrested and tasered.

 

[Dolfan1000]

Your point is that you dont like how Cam handled Daunte's situation. How is that not about Daunte?