Merged: espn top 5 reasons you cant blame dan marino for not wining a superbowl | FinHeaven - Miami Dolphins Forums

Merged: espn top 5 reasons you cant blame dan marino for not wining a superbowl

September 12, 2006,

Ricky Williams for leaving football
 
dominizzo said:
Too bad
DAn marino deserved to win at least 2 super bowls
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Funny, I was thinking about this and Shula yesterday.

In the early-to-mid 70s, Shula had built a great, great team. It fell apart after Morris, Zonk and Kick (sp?) left. Then he built us into a pretty darn good team in early-to-mid 80s as well, going to two SuperBowls, and coming close to another. But from '86 on, he could never do it again. Sure, we had some decent teams once the 90s rolled around with Marino and a sometimes average-at-best defense - but Shula could never recapture the magic he had through '85.

Not blaming this on Shula, as he tried - but I think he lost something in talent evaluation after he scored Marino.
 
Rick 1966 said:
I do blame it on Shula. He leaned on Marino like a crutch after 85.
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It's probably easy to do. Kind of like Detroit did with Sanders.
 
5. Georgia Frontierre being cheap toweard Eric Dickerson. In 1987 the Dick was upset about his contract(similiar to TO) with the Rams. Georgia got tired of it ordered him traded. He was traded to the Colts, with the unsigned Cornelious Bennett going to Buffalo. The next year the Rams draft Gaston Green istead of Thurman Thomas, leaving Thomas to get drafted by Buffalo. This entire scenario made Buffalo powerful, and the Colts good, and probably cost Marino led teams at least 3 division titles(1987, 1989, 1990).
4. Jimmy Johnson ruling out drafting Randy Moss in 1998. Moss was still availible at pick #19, the Dolphins pick. However Johnson was afraid of Moss's reputation and traded down twice, ending up drafting John Avery.
3. Extremely poor drafting in the 1984-1989 period. With the exception of John Offerdahl(2nd round 1988) and Louis Oliver(late 1st round 1989) every pick in the 1st 3 rounds those years were fragile stiffs(Lorenzo Hampton, Jay Brophy, Jackie Shipp, John Bosa, Eric Kummerow, Rick Graf, Sammy Smith) that greatly dragged down the team.
2. The Joe Robbie family. Robbie was cheap(Marino even had a nasty holdout in 1985), and often would not be willing to sink the money for needed help. Also he did not set up a good succession plan. So when he died in 1990, the estate was set by in-fight among the Robbie children. This also caused financial holdups that prevented needed help(like not getting Bernie Kosar in 1993, and not locking up Louis Oliver to a cap friendly deal) in close years.
1. The endless search for replacements for players that died. Three starters, linebacker Rusty Chambers in an auto accident in 1981, linebacker Larry Gordon from a cocaine induced heart attack in 1983, and tailback David Overstreet in a drunk car accident in 1984, had passed away leaving major holes at key posistions. The line backer spots were weak for Shula's final 13 years. Shula traded the rights to Anthony Carter for Robin Sendlien who was awful. A couple of picks were traded for Hugh Greene, who after blowing a knee in his 4th game was never great again. Draft picks Jay Brophy, Rick Graf, Jackie Shipp, and Audrey Beavers were disaters. As for replacing Overstreet, high draft picks Ike Hampton and Sammy Smith were collsal failures, and Bobby Humphries never showed the talent he displayed in Denver. The failure to fill those spots, along with neglect of other parts of the team, doomed Marion's chances of the Super Bowl ring.
 
I don't know if I can watch that. I want to, but just don't want to push my threshold of pain! ^%*&^%&^&^Ceicl Collins%^&%(()Lorenzo Hampton()###$%%!!!!!!!
 
I think the biggest mistake, at least in Marino's latter years, was hiring the big name coach (Jimmy Johnson) in 1995, instead of perhaps a lesser name like Dungy. Sure, Johnson had won two SBs in Dallas after doing one of the quickest turnaround jobs in the history of sports, , but that was largely due to the stupidity of the part of the Vikes in trading all those draft picks for Herschel Walker (not to mention NO trading two number ones for Steve Walsh). True, unlike the Rams who wasted a bunch of the draft choices that they got for Dickerson, Johnson made a lot of good picks, but the bottom line is that he wouldn't have gotten a chance to do so if he hadn't been able to fox the Vikings. Furthermore, Johnson's big problem in Miami was that he was so stuck on HIS system that it didn't matter to him that it didn't fit the personnel he had in Miami, whereas Dungy seems to be a bit more flexible (I would like to enter the Indy offense into evidence at this time).
 
mf52dolphin said:
5. Georgia Frontierre being cheap toweard Eric Dickerson. In 1987 the Dick was upset about his contract(similiar to TO) with the Rams. Georgia got tired of it ordered him traded. He was traded to the Colts, with the unsigned Cornelious Bennett going to Buffalo. The next year the Rams draft Gaston Green istead of Thurman Thomas, leaving Thomas to get drafted by Buffalo. This entire scenario made Buffalo powerful, and the Colts good, and probably cost Marino led teams at least 3 division titles(1987, 1989, 1990).
4. Jimmy Johnson ruling out drafting Randy Moss in 1998. Moss was still availible at pick #19, the Dolphins pick. However Johnson was afraid of Moss's reputation and traded down twice, ending up drafting John Avery.
3. Extremely poor drafting in the 1984-1989 period. With the exception of John Offerdahl(2nd round 1988) and Louis Oliver(late 1st round 1989) every pick in the 1st 3 rounds those years were fragile stiffs(Lorenzo Hampton, Jay Brophy, Jackie Shipp, John Bosa, Eric Kummerow, Rick Graf, Sammy Smith) that greatly dragged down the team.
2. The Joe Robbie family. Robbie was cheap(Marino even had a nasty holdout in 1985), and often would not be willing to sink the money for needed help. Also he did not set up a good succession plan. So when he died in 1990, the estate was set by in-fight among the Robbie children. This also caused financial holdups that prevented needed help(like not getting Bernie Kosar in 1993, and not locking up Louis Oliver to a cap friendly deal) in close years.
1. The endless search for replacements for players that died. Three starters, linebacker Rusty Chambers in an auto accident in 1981, linebacker Larry Gordon from a cocaine induced heart attack in 1983, and tailback David Overstreet in a drunk car accident in 1984, had passed away leaving major holes at key posistions. The line backer spots were weak for Shula's final 13 years. Shula traded the rights to Anthony Carter for Robin Sendlien who was awful. A couple of picks were traded for Hugh Greene, who after blowing a knee in his 4th game was never great again. Draft picks Jay Brophy, Rick Graf, Jackie Shipp, and Audrey Beavers were disaters. As for replacing Overstreet, high draft picks Ike Hampton and Sammy Smith were collsal failures, and Bobby Humphries never showed the talent he displayed in Denver. The failure to fill those spots, along with neglect of other parts of the team, doomed Marion's chances of the Super Bowl ring.
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5. Yes, that scenario, totally unrelated to how Shula did, just killed us in the late 80s/early 90s.
4. Partly true, but JJ traded the pick prior to the draft starting, so hindsight is 20/20.
3. Agreed. Very poor drafting, although if any of those "reaches" panned out, Shula would once again, be a genious! And of course, one "bust" led to him drafting another to compensate for the blown pick, which led to another, and another...
2. Agreed again!
1. Didn't another starter die trying to save a little girl, but drowned?

Don't forget career hampering injuries to Andra Franklin, Mark Dixon, Randal Hill, Yatil Green, etc...
 
mf52dolphin said:
5. Georgia Frontierre being cheap toweard Eric Dickerson. In 1987 the Dick was upset about his contract(similiar to TO) with the Rams. Georgia got tired of it ordered him traded. He was traded to the Colts, with the unsigned Cornelious Bennett going to Buffalo. The next year the Rams draft Gaston Green istead of Thurman Thomas, leaving Thomas to get drafted by Buffalo. This entire scenario made Buffalo powerful, and the Colts good, and probably cost Marino led teams at least 3 division titles(1987, 1989, 1990).
4. Jimmy Johnson ruling out drafting Randy Moss in 1998. Moss was still availible at pick #19, the Dolphins pick. However Johnson was afraid of Moss's reputation and traded down twice, ending up drafting John Avery.
3. Extremely poor drafting in the 1984-1989 period. With the exception of John Offerdahl(2nd round 1988) and Louis Oliver(late 1st round 1989) every pick in the 1st 3 rounds those years were fragile stiffs(Lorenzo Hampton, Jay Brophy, Jackie Shipp, John Bosa, Eric Kummerow, Rick Graf, Sammy Smith) that greatly dragged down the team.
2. The Joe Robbie family. Robbie was cheap(Marino even had a nasty holdout in 1985), and often would not be willing to sink the money for needed help. Also he did not set up a good succession plan. So when he died in 1990, the estate was set by in-fight among the Robbie children. This also caused financial holdups that prevented needed help(like not getting Bernie Kosar in 1993, and not locking up Louis Oliver to a cap friendly deal) in close years.
1. The endless search for replacements for players that died. Three starters, linebacker Rusty Chambers in an auto accident in 1981, linebacker Larry Gordon from a cocaine induced heart attack in 1983, and tailback David Overstreet in a drunk car accident in 1984, had passed away leaving major holes at key posistions. The line backer spots were weak for Shula's final 13 years. Shula traded the rights to Anthony Carter for Robin Sendlien who was awful. A couple of picks were traded for Hugh Greene, who after blowing a knee in his 4th game was never great again. Draft picks Jay Brophy, Rick Graf, Jackie Shipp, and Audrey Beavers were disaters. As for replacing Overstreet, high draft picks Ike Hampton and Sammy Smith were collsal failures, and Bobby Humphries never showed the talent he displayed in Denver. The failure to fill those spots, along with neglect of other parts of the team, doomed Marion's chances of the Super Bowl ring.
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All of this is true, of course - and good point on #5 I hadn't thought of. Talk about layers of seperation, etc.

But you could sum up the reasons Marino never reached a SuperBowl with just two:

-Aweful defenses
-Lack of even a decent running game that could serve as a counter threat to his passing

Two games that illustrate the lack of defense:
-Losing 51-45 to the Jets in '86
-Losing by 10 to the Jets when throwing for 500-plus yards. How does this happen? I couldn't beleive my eyes.

And with no running game, we could never keep up with time of possession in many cases, allowing opposing offenses to exploit our swiss cheese defense. And if a team had a good day against Dan (Like NE and Buffalo often did), we had no recourse. Play action fakes? What were we faking, a run into the heart of the defensive line for no gain?

Anyways, still bitter after all these freaking years.
 
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