merged: vernon not progressing..../bookend tackles

[thecoordinator]

vernon lost his starting job after the carolina game and it appears mcdougal will start again this weekend vs the bucs after starting last sunday's game at buffalo. saban was asked today in his PC about carey and said that they are not disappointed in vernon (i think they are), but basically he's just not picking up the technique they are teaching and executing it in the game. he goes on to say that it just takes maturity and experience to be able to execute consistently without having to think about it and they will continue to try and develop vernon.

i know i know. it's still early. but carey was a first round pick, not a mid to late round project. any time you are given a starting role and then replaced, that's never a good thing. our list of o line draft busts is already awefully long. i sure hope we dont have to add vernon to it.

 

[SF Dolphin Fan]

It seemed like he was one of the bigger positive stories of training camp and preseason. Not good news to see him on the bench, especially considering McDougal hasn't really played great. Not a bust yet, but maybe not the long-term answer either.

 

[FinNasty]

That is really wierd. He was progressing so well in training camp. He was doing so well in pass protection and was handling JT very well. I personally was quite excited about him and I am upset that it sounds like he has regressed some what. Hopefully Houck can turn it around.

Nasty

 

[ckparrothead]

The technique they are talking about is run blocking. He's really just kind of pedestrian and going through the motions in run blocking. That will drive a coach nuts.

 

[Jimmy James]

While this is a step backward for VC personally, I can only consider this a positive sign for the improved performance of the line. I think they have more work to do, but things do seem to be coming together for the unit.

If VC gets it together eventually and contributes to this team as a starter, he is no bust. If he doesn't, I'm not going to dwell too much on him being a bust simply because there are more important things to the Dolphins.

 

[FinNasty]

The technique they are talking about is run blocking. He's really just kind of pedestrian and going through the motions in run blocking. That will drive a coach nuts.

I figured it had to be run blocking because his pass blockin didnt seem to be a problem. You would think his strength would be run blocking...

 

[LarryFinFan]

vernon lost his starting job after the carolina game and it appears mcdougal will start again this weekend vs the bucs after starting last sunday's game at buffalo. saban was asked today in his PC about carey and said that they are not disappointed in vernon (i think they are), but basically he's just not picking up the technique they are teaching and executing it in the game. he goes on to say that it just takes maturity and experience to be able to execute consistently without having to think about it and they will continue to try and develop vernon.

i know i know. it's still early. but carey was a first round pick, not a mid to late round project. any time you are given a starting role and then replaced, that's never a good thing. our list of o line draft busts is already awefully long. i sure hope we dont have to add vernon to it.

Well what was his biggest knock coming out of college ?? He was dumb as a rock...single digit Wonderlich score...this is his second scheme in two years...of course he's going to have trouble with it...Still you hope for more from a 1st round pick...but there wasn't much alternative for us when he was picked...LT was (and is) a glaring weakness...

 

[Shouright]

While this is a step backward for VC personally, I can only consider this a positive sign for the improved performance of the line. I think they have more work to do, but things do seem to be coming together for the unit.

If VC gets it together eventually and contributes to this team as a starter, he is no bust. If he doesn't, I'm not going to dwell too much on him being a bust simply because there are more important things to the Dolphins.

Yeah but we can't continue to neglect the O line and expect to get anywhere. I know drafting Carey #1 isn't neglecting the line, but if he's a bust then it is in effect. I mean what have we done for the line in the past 5 years? No pro-bowl free agents, no draft picks higher than a 3rd other than Carey. We need SOME quality on the line.

 

[Jimmy James]

Yeah but we can't continue to neglect the O line and expect to get anywhere. I know drafting Carey #1 isn't neglecting the line, but if he's a bust then it is in effect. I mean what have we done for the line in the past 5 years? No pro-bowl free agents, no draft picks higher than a 3rd other than Carey. We need SOME quality on the line.

I don't think it's remotely possible that Saban will allow this line to do anything but get better.

I still expect Miami's first round pick to be used on a franchise quality left tackle.

 

[PressCoverage]

i certainly don't profess to know more than Houck or the Dolphins coaching staff...

however, i've said it before and i'll continue to say it: i believe he's not a tackle... he's a guard, always has been... he has a guard's body... they should have groomed him to play guard from the get-go... not move him around the line everywhere...

just my opinion...

 

[SF Dolphin Fan]

Bookend Tackles

The word that Vernon Carey is not progressing well says a lot for the Dolphins tackle position. He very well could rebound, but right now with both McDougal and McIntosh more stop gap types, Miami may have to find both a LT and RT next offseason. Of course, if McDougal plays well the team could re-sign him but he hasn't looked great and has been penalty prone. Carey has been more finese than physical so far.

You know that Saban wants to build a strong, dominant running attack and there really aren't many keepers on this current offense line. Yes, they are playing better than last year but more talent is needed to help Ronnie Brown, who looks like he could be the right kind of back. Would anyone be overly surprised if Miami picked offensive tackles in the first and second round? With a strong tackle draft that could be possible. Would a defense first coach, like Saban, do that?

 

[ckparrothead]

Actually I think he's got a tackle's body. He's got a very big wing span considering he's only 6'4"

 

[Shouright]

I think it depends on where he's picking in the 1st and 2nd. If we're picking late like the Pats did in getting Logan Mankins last year, we might. If we're picking early I don't think so. I think Saban espouses the Belichick philosophy that you get O linemen cheap and develop them with good coaching. That's why he hired Houck and paid him all the money instead of the linemen -- he doesn't count against the cap.

 

[PressCoverage]

he's bottom heavy and does not have ideal tackle feet... plus, it's suggested he doesn't have the head for the postion either...

 

[Awsi Dooger]

Well what was his biggest knock coming out of college ?? He was dumb as a rock...single digit Wonderlich score...this is his second scheme in two years...of course he's going to have trouble with it...Still you hope for more from a 1st round pick...but there wasn't much alternative for us when he was picked...LT was (and is) a glaring weakness...

Your last point is very accurate. And it's still driving me nuts we passed on Khalif Barnes of Washington to take Matt Roth. Especially when there were a flock of us here on draft day in a Khalif Barnes thread, sweating out every selection as he somehow slipped toward our pick at #46. Here's a blurb from earlier this week, as Barnes made his first career start for Jacksonville:

Jaguars | Barnes Plays Well
Mon, 10 Oct 2005 20:46:57 -0700

"Vic Ketchman, of Jaguars.com, reports Jacksonville Jaguars OT Khalif Barnes played well in place of veteran OT Ephraim Salaam. The result was QB Byron Leftwich wasn't sacked for the first time all season and RB Fred Taylor ran for 100 yards."

I watched that game as much as I could at work, and Barnes indeed played well. He is a true LT, not a force at the position like Carey, and has a true mean streak plus excellent feet.

I agree Carey's main problem is run blocking. But he's simply not nimble enough to play LT regardless, lacking ideal upper body flexibility and feet. I still think he'll be moved to guard eventually. The frustrating aspect is Carey has actually been demoted twice, from LT to RT and now to the bench. And demoted behind players who aren't exactly special. Don't kid ourselves, Carey was moved to RT due to his own inadequacies. There was plenty of nonsense here at the time that it was merely a case of replacing McDougle, that Carey was doing great at LT. That's outright lunacy, pure Monty Python. You don't put your best young prospect at the vital LT position and then evict him elsewhere if he's progressing nicely and fits what you're looking for longterm. Now he's replaced by McDougal, who looked so bad late in preseason there was some speculation he might be replaced by a waiver acquisition as the season progressed.