Merged:Welker's Fumbled Punt Return

[twg76]

Ok. I am watching the game again. I have it on my DVR. FOX slows the play down and shows a perfect angle. I put my DVR in slow motion on top of FOX's slow motion. So basically, the players are crawling along the field. My grandma could see what is happening at this speed.

So... when you see the play, the Carolina defender runs by Jason Allen. Allen does not block the defender. Welker is not sure as to whether or not Allen picked up the block. So he signals a late call for a fair catch. It was late, but you can see that it was clearly before the ball got to him.

A flag was thrown because Welker called for a fair catch. BUT he didn't get the fair catch because Jason Allen, for no reason, pushed the defender in the back right into Welker. It actually helped the defender get to Welker a split second early.

Jason Allen should have left the defender alone. He was already passed him. Welker would have signaled for the fair catch, the defender would have hit him, the flag was thrown, and it would have been a penalty for illegal contact on the return guy (Welker).

Welker needs to signal a bit earlier for the fair catch in the future. But Jason Allen needed to block his man, or leave it alone. What good does pushing the guy in the back do? It does no good at all. You get a blocking in the back penalty.

Those are the facts. Go watch it again for yourself, if you need to see it with your own eyes. Trust me, Jason Allen kept Miami from getting the penalty call from Wes Welker's late, but good enough to get a flag, fair catch signal.

 

[endorPHINS72]

Ok. I am watching the game again. I have it on my DVR. FOX slows the play down and shows a perfect angle. I put my DVR in slow motion on top of FOX's slow motion. So basically, the players are crawling along the field. My grandma could see what is happening at this speed.

So... when you see the play, the Carolina defender runs by Jason Allen. Allen does not block the defender. Welker is not sure as to whether or not Allen picked up the block. So he signals a late call for a fair catch. It was late, but you can see that it was clearly before the ball got to him.

A flag was thrown because Welker called for a fair catch. BUT he didn't get the fair catch because Jason Allen, for no reason, pushed the defender in the back right into Welker. It actually helped the defender get to Welker a split second early.

Jason Allen should have left the defender alone. He was already passed him. Welker would have signaled for the fair catch, the defender would have hit him, the flag was thrown, and it would have been a penalty for illegal contact on the return guy (Welker).

Welker needs to signal a bit earlier for the fair catch in the future. But Jason Allen needed to block his man, or leave it alone. What good does pushing the guy in the back do? It does no good at all. You get a blocking in the back penalty.

Those are the facts. Go watch it again for yourself, if you need to see it with your own eyes. Trust me, Jason Allen kept Miami from getting the penalty call from Wes Welker's late, but good enough to get a flag, fair catch signal.

It was a boneheaded rookie mistake by Jason Allen. I don't know what he was trying to do by pushing Welker in the back. On the other hand, the Panthers' gunners were closing in fast and I have no idea why the hell Welker didn't signal a fair catch earlier. He's been returning kicks in the league for three years and should know better.

 

[twg76]

It was a boneheaded rookie mistake by Jason Allen. I don't know what he was trying to do by pushing Welker in the back.

Sounds like you didn't even see it. Jason Allen didn't push Welker in the back. Try again.

 

[Skeet84]

Ok. I am watching the game again. I have it on my DVR. FOX slows the play down and shows a perfect angle. I put my DVR in slow motion on top of FOX's slow motion. So basically, the players are crawling along the field. My grandma could see what is happening at this speed.

So... when you see the play, the Carolina defender runs by Jason Allen. Allen does not block the defender. Welker is not sure as to whether or not Allen picked up the block. So he signals a late call for a fair catch. It was late, but you can see that it was clearly before the ball got to him.

A flag was thrown because Welker called for a fair catch. BUT he didn't get the fair catch because Jason Allen, for no reason, pushed the defender in the back right into Welker. It actually helped the defender get to Welker a split second early.

Jason Allen should have left the defender alone. He was already passed him. Welker would have signaled for the fair catch, the defender would have hit him, the flag was thrown, and it would have been a penalty for illegal contact on the return guy (Welker).

Welker needs to signal a bit earlier for the fair catch in the future. But Jason Allen needed to block his man, or leave it alone. What good does pushing the guy in the back do? It does no good at all. You get a blocking in the back penalty.

Those are the facts. Go watch it again for yourself, if you need to see it with your own eyes. Trust me, Jason Allen kept Miami from getting the penalty call from Wes Welker's late, but good enough to get a flag, fair catch signal.

It was not a huge push in the back and the defender still lowered his shoulder.

 

[Bo_NC_Finman]

speed it up to real time and see that Welker should have made that fair catch decision way earlier. PS. I am a big Welker fan

 

[popularwar]

When you have a second to make a decision on whether or not letting a big football player run into your teammate, your instincts might force you to try to push a guy.

That being said, I'm sure it will be addressed and he'll know better next time.

 

[305TillIDie]

speed it up to real time and see that Welker should have made that fair catch decision way earlier. PS. I am a big Welker fan

he had time to catch the ball..thats the whole point in this..if he wouldve caught the ball, carolina wouldve never got the ball

 

[jhortondj2]

Hope we are not missing the point here, the push was uncalled for and big enough to garner the penalty....Welker's experience allowed for him to call for a fair catch in time. Without the contact Welker catches the ball easy...with the contact he gets the foul, either way... our ball. Good call Mcteems.
Sure looks like Jason's not at all ready yet, besides this he nearly lets a guy score later, nice toe tackle after getting completely out of position. Hope he gets more time to mentally prepare himself for the level of competition he's facing.

 

[Bo_NC_Finman]

he had time to catch the ball..thats the whole point in this..if he wouldve caught the ball, carolina wouldve never got the ball

Noted, and thanks for being the first on here to recognize I talked. He waited until one split second to put his hand up. They were looking at family photos in his wallet at that point.

 

[305TillIDie]

Noted, and thanks for being the first on here to recognize I talked. He waited until one split second to put his hand up. They were looking at family photos in his wallet at that point.

yeah..pretty much

 

[lazareth]

i havent watched the tape again yet but to me didnt look like too much of a push, and the defender made a good play by planting his foot to change direction so he could get to welker

late fair catch call by welker and a slightly questionable call by the official...but then i am no expert

ill look at the tape later

 

[Bo_NC_Finman]

It was great to be there in a high end suite and have those fans pissed understanding what really happened in the first half. To the Panthers fans credit, I heard more than once at least you guys have a first down.

 

[jhortondj2]

speed it up to real time and see that Welker should have made that fair catch decision way earlier. PS. I am a big Welker fan

P.S. it didn't come down to making a late fair catch call, (referee) "the man was pushed into him" even if Welker had made the call yesterday they give Carolina the ball. Lesson #1) don't push people in the back after you get beat!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
P.S.S. I still don' see where Welker has to make the fair catch call at all if JA makes the block in the first place, Great vision Wes!!

 

[endorPHINS72]

Sounds like you didn't even see it. Jason Allen didn't push Welker in the back. Try again.

I watched the whole game, and quite thoroughly, thank you. I went back and looked at what I had written and saw that what I wrote wasn't what I meant to say (Labatt's and game analysis don't go well together). Allen blocked the Panthers' gunner into Welker, but the fault still lies with Welker for not making the fair catch earlier.

As for the smartass tone of your post, I'm going to ignore that and walk away. God bless you and have a good day! :tongue:

 

[Nick13]

my major issue with this play was that the rule states if the man is "Blocked" into the returner, in my opinion, if you have to watch slow motion replay to see that Allen put a hand on him, then that doesnt consitute a block, (unless you played on our O-Line from 1999-2003), Allens push, while a stupid move, didnt even effect the carolina gunner, in which case i would think that the flag would be pertinent as regardless of the timing of welkers fair catch call, there still would have been kick catching interference as the rule states that you must the the returner a "three yard halo" and then you can plough him, this especially pisses me off because of all the emphasis on protecting QB's where if you so much as pat them on the butt too hard after a play you get flagged for roughing the passer, how about the ref's protect our star return man? i bet that if that had been Steve Smith, he'd've gotten the flag (and yes, that is a double conjunction)